Air Canada Pool

[forcedwhore]

Can you imagine the tension in the cockpit when the skipper is making less then the Jazz New hire....as if there isn't enough dividers at AC as it is. Jazz new hires are going to be outcast, and rightfully so.

[Mr. North]

I don't quite understand this.. Does the 80% flow through from Jazz mean they're taking the most senior pilots or just anyone wearing the Jazz uniform? Would a recent new hire (2-4 years) have the same odds of getting on AC as a 20 year captain?

Could someone refresh me on the pay at Jazz. I always understood it as being pretty good, the main detractor being the length of time it took to upgrade. Wouldn't a flow through policy make Jazz a more attractive place to work now?

With regards to AC, how many retirements per year are we looking at once we get past the age 60 delay? Are they doing this to perhaps stem the inevitable tide of retirements about to happen? If so, the remaining 20% could still be quite a lot of positions, perhaps more than we've seen in the last few years? Thoughts?

Oh and lets try not to froth at the mouth about all this.

[comanchepilot]

MbAv8r.....BIG social faux pas!!

7931, all your partner needs is access to ALPA website, our MEC page has a link to the road show video and the road show presentation to download as well as the MOS. The link for the YUL road show should be there soon as well and answered more question than the YYZ road show.
There are some reasons for senior pilots to sign up for this but there are some risks and really better if she watches and reads herself because of the complexity of trying to explain it.
Key point, if she has her 25 year passes, those are intact but if not, as it stands right now she would not carry over years of service for those, essentially starting over for passes and as a new hire at AC he would be giving up everything except for 4 years of pay protection.
They've added a flow chart to answer all questions related to this PMA, covering the scenarios that have come up since the announcement.

FTFY...

[aV1aTOr]

Can you imagine the tension in the cockpit when the skipper is making less then the Jazz New hire....as if there isn't enough dividers at AC as it is. Jazz new hires are going to be outcast, and rightfully so.

I can assure you there is no skipper at Air Canada making less than $160k. Clearly you do not work for Air Canada. If you did, I sincerely hope you would not deem it acceptable to "outcast" any fellow ACPA pilot because they got what is essentially some severance cash from their previous employer.

[mbav8r]

Oopsie, my apologies, I missed that completely.

[Inverted2]

Can you imagine the tension in the cockpit when the skipper is making less then the Jazz New hire....as if there isn't enough dividers at AC as it is. Jazz new hires are going to be outcast, and rightfully so.

Top salary at Jazz is under $120/hr. No captains at AC make under $120/hr. Who do you work for by the way since you have so much to say?

[Jack In The Box]

So basically now the only way in to AC is through Jazz??? Or to hope to be one of the 20%?

This is HORRIBLE news for guys like me who have been busting their butt for a chance to work there.

[PositiveRate27]

So basically now the only way in to AC is through Jazz??? Or to hope to be one of the 20%?

This is HORRIBLE news for guys like me who have been busting their butt for a chance to work there.

Its a tough pill for all of us in this boat for sure... Keep your chin up, there is more to life than Big Red. You never know, maybe you'll be the 20%.

[rudder]

There was a period during the previous decade when the rejection rate for Jazz applicants at AC was 80% or higher (while at other times such as during the 1990's the acceptance rate was almost 100%). It made no sense considering the relative experience levels at the time. That is partly why Jazz has accumulated such a highly tenured pilot work force, including FO's. Now the AC hiring ratio will be 80%.

Seems like this agreement will balance out a past policy anomaly.

[arcadia]

.

[rudder]

Jazz is gearing up to hire 20 pilots per month in 2015 so the anticipated attrition rate to AC, WJ, Transat, Sunwing, Cargojet, and elsewhere must be that or more.

[altiplano]

Heard from a management type last week, maybe 2 more courses in 2015. New 2015 seniority list is out too... 40 whole numbers... Seems to match that forecast for 2 courses.

AC is bringing on 10 321's this spring and not losing the embraers until the fall.

I thought we were getting 5 321s? Or was it 5 to mainline, 5 to rogue?

[arcadia]

.

[AllClutch]

Theory time!
The first GS will be all pool. I personally don't think that the PML will pass tomorrow night, the feeling on the ground is that there just aren't 49% of us that want to give up our lifestyles and DB pensions.
Maybe AC comes back with a more realistic number in time for Jazz to start filling up GS this spring, who knows, this wouldn't be the first time we have poked Calin in the eye and all previous times have hurt us far more than him.

[snag]

Let's clarify something here. Between this page and the Jazz forum, we're getting dozens of new aircraft yesterday, and the hiring of thousands of pilots is imminent.

Here's the deal: There is evidence of maybe 1 (one) newish A320, which may replace an existing aircraft for all we know. The company is looking at more options but there are very few out there to be found. The seniority list budged by only 42 this year, which was foreseen by equipment bids up to 12 months ago. Retirements won't become mandatory again until January 1, 2018. Yes, three more years! The over inflated jazz forum hiring numbers would only exist if AC exercised every single 787 and 737 option and purchase right. That's 61 aircraft that don't exist yet, and may never. Even if AC takes half of them, the total fin count is still pretty flat. The pilot training department only forecasts one, maybe two courses all year this year.

So enough with the "I heard from a guy, who heard from a guy, who heard from Calin's sister.." nonsense. Anyone patient enough for some factual info will wait for the equipment bid early in Feb.

[rudder]

There may or may not be growth. Cheap oil and low interest rates will stimulate discretionary spending and may stimulate travel demand creating incremental and cost effective revenue opportunities for AC.

Regardless, AC saves money in the revised CPA with every Jazz pilot that is hired. My guess is that the hiring and training machine will spool up at AC irrespective of the growth factor if not by hundreds then at least by dozens. The retirement schedule is real and average age of retirement is not 65 it is closer to 62.5

There more factors in play for AC than before if the Jazz TA and CHR CPA are implemented.

[Bored]

Air Canada has 2 A320s going online soon. C-FGJI (Fin 241?) is in Montreal after delivery from Dresden and C-FGKH is in Europe awaiting delivery. Both are ex Thomas Cook aircraft built in 2002. No idea if anything is leaving the fleet.

[proper]

It passed.

[Fanblade]

The retirement schedule is real and average age of retirement is not 65 it is closer to 62.5.

Rudder,

I agree the retirement schedule is real. Curious as to where you came up with 62.5 as the expected average age of retirement though.

That age seems low based on the retirement forecast we see on Equipment bids every two months. For that number to be accurate we would need to see a serious uptick in retirements right now.

63.5ish looks more reasonable from what I have seen. With that said there is a new bid due out shortly. If it shows a sudden uptick in retirements 62.5 ish could be accurate.

[Slappy the Squirrel]

Email to the pool yesterday was looking for updated resumes. She said she hopes to have more info as to how the PMA is going to affect pool candidates either Friday or early next week.

Either way, the vote last night was definitely bad news for us in the pool, albeit not an unexpected result. To put things in prospective, if you are around 60th in the pool, you now wont't be hired until AC hires at least 300 pilots, keeping in mind only 70-80 have been hired in the past 18 months.

Even worse news for non-pool non-Jazz pilots who want to apply, unless something changes don't expect the application window to open for a LONG time, several years unless I'm missing something.

I don't hold anything against Jazz pilots for voting for the deal, I would have done the same. They are very well trained and like many have pointed out on here they have given years of service to AC in some form, and probably deserve this chance.

Sucks for us who have had lives on hold for years now after being told we would be hired in 6 months, and probably will be on hold for more years to come. I'll pass along an update from AC when they send it in the next few days.