Air Canada Pool

[Ah_yeah]

As an Acpa member, I'm truly saddened that Poolies are getting the shaft. While I understand the corporations motivation for this deal, I question the fairness of leaving you guys out in the cold. Hopefully the news will have some silver lining for you guys.

[mbav8r]

Ah Yeah and Poolies, while I understand some will be upset with this new reality, maybe a little background on some of the Flowies.
My personal story and is by no means unique, as I've talked with several other Jazz pilots with a very similar story! I've been flying since 1995 and it took 12 years of bush, northern/artic flying before the opportunity to fly at Jazz presented itself to me. On day 3 of my first week at Jazz, I received an email from AC HR inviting me to attend the interview with 3 or 4 dates to choose from. I replied to that email, that I was currently at Jazz for 3 days and wondered if that changed anything, to which the response was, absolutely that changes everything! I was told to update my application with my Jazz start date and I would be called on in order of seniority, as LOU 18(I believe) was in effect. That call never came and 2 years later the LOU was dissolved when ACE divested the remainder of it's Chorus shares.
Fast forward, thinking that ship had sailed and seniority and pay cut was too much to stomach, they rewarded my 6 years of service by taking away my C2 pass travel and any chance of retirement passes, talk about moving the goal post. Now AC in an effort to reduce the cost of a very lucrative CPA, which by design was so rich to attract investors, to bail out the mother ship, they've given a small token of appreciation to the Jazz pilots. No seniority, no pass YOS, no vacation, just 4 years of pay protection to bridge the gap until off the AC salary and we get to be a new hire, with all that entails. Don't get me wrong, this is actually what I'd hoped for, some way to get to AC without putting my marriage and mortgage at risk. I have asked my family too many times to tighten their belts, that I feared one more time would have a price I was not willing to pay, so I had planned on making a career at Jazz, now I have a possibility of moving without a pay cut, assuming I pass the interview process.
They've made it so risky to stay at Jazz that at least 625 Jazz pilots decide to give everything up to start over! I really didn't think we would get the required numbers but I guess we all saw the writing on the wall. If we rejected this deal, our future or lack thereof was all but written, now the company will be cost competitive and in 10 years the number of current Jazz pilots still at Jazz will be somewhere in the low 200s, just speculating but that appeared to be the goal.
Given this new deal, there is likely a future beyond 2025 because we can now compete with the likes of GGN and SKV, sickening but that's the reality.
While I feel for the poolies, you'll have to excuse me if I don't shed any tears for them, this industry is many things, fair is NOT one of them!

[ski_bum]

As a former pool swimmer, I really hope they take you guys onboard before the flow starts, or at least at a 50/50 ratio. fingers crossed, keep your heads up!!

[mbav8r]

Sorry ski bum, hate to disappoint you but once signed, it's a legal document and enforceable, the ratio will be 80/20. Thanks for the 50/50 well wishes though

[AllClutch]

To be fair its 80% of hiring total over the next 11 years or untill the PML is exhausted.
How it gets done is ACs discreation.
They could run 1 whole GS of poolies for every 4 GS of Jazz.

[prop2jet]

To be fair its 80% of hiring total over the next 11 years or untill the PML is exhausted.
How it gets done is ACs discreation.
They could run 1 whole GS of poolies for every 4 GS of Jazz.

Not really. It is in the best interest of AC to remove as many off the PML given the cost savings afforded by the new CPA. The priority for assignment of the 80% is depletion of the PML or termination of the ALPA agreement. Once the PML has been exhausted a new program will be instituted by AC which will apply to all of the contracted carriers.

[AllClutch]

Yeah.
Thats exactly what I said.
The agreement ends in 2026 and I said that its done when the PML is exhausting.
Im just sayibg what the NC said. Its 80% of total hiring not 80% per groundschool.
I dont disagree that it pays to take more.

[prop2jet]

I think it is also fair to say that list will be exhausted long before 2026. Not everyone on the list will be offered employment and not everyone will accept the offer either. I guess we will know more come Feb when the next batch of crew req numbers comes out.

[flashheart]

So should the poolies start jumping off the bridge yet

[Ah_yeah]

Mbav8r, you write a compelling argument. My post was not meant to disrespect any Jazz guys. I agree this business is anything but fair. We've all got a "story". Since we are talking a relatively small group of Poolies, my point was to clear the deck of commitments before honouring new ones. If the Poolies are integrated in the 20 percent without going to the back of the bus, maybe everyone can be happy. Given the current info, not much will happen until guys retire. Hell, there is a couple of hundred that want back in ( or at least take our wives and houses in lieu ) so there's that.

[777longhaul]

Ah Yeah

There are not a couple of hundred who want back in. That time, due to extended court battles has pasted. Most of the aprx. 200, who were force retired, and did something about, it, (we all filed an appeal with the CHRC within one year of forced termination) are now past 65, so your remarks are wrong, again.

The new ICAO rules have banned any pilot over 65 from flying in an airline capacity. No reason, medical or otherwise, it is just yet another number, that ICAO has pulled out of their collective hats, to cover their perceived risks, with no data to back up the number.

Very few, of the aprx. 200 AC pilots who were all in good standing with acpa, (paying maximum union dues) at the time of their forced retirement, by acpa, and AC, will be able to return to AC depending on how the Federal Court of Appeals, rules, from the court appeals, held on January 20 2015.

Don't worry, acpa has your back.

[arcadia]

.

[whatsitdoingnow]

Wow! There must be something seriously wrong with the psych eval at AC if you past it arcadia! What kind of post is that?

[TrailerParkBoy]

Arcadia..."Did you nap today? I think you need a nap!"

Go to YouTube and search: did you nap today

[arcadia]

.

[AllClutch]

The senior guys will go first but all of us on the PML will get our shot within 4-6 years. Even the most junior FO. We are privy to the exact language in the PML and trust us the junior guys arebt getting the shaft or else this wouldnt have had the overwhelming support it enjoyed.
You will be there shortly Im sure.
Sorry that this happened and I cant imagine the stress your under.

[Radiocaster]

What???
Do you guys expect the poolies to be happy with this new agreement? I may be totally lost here but is this deal not targeted towards the more senior guy/gal at Jazz, already left seat or very senior right seat? So why come on here with a background sob story on how hard of a go you have had?? Thats the industry in Canada ain't it? Sorry but I don't buy into that crap, and while I probably shouldn't have said I hope he doesn't get hired, maybe I should have said "The industry is many things, fair ain't one of them." So if he doesn't get on, I won't shed any tears for him either. Sorry if that sounds crazy to some of you. JMO

Bs

[altiplano]

This doesn't affect me, but I hate to see guys that have been hanging in there passed over because some deal signed between a bunch of suits.

[WF9F]

Everybody loses at one point or another in this crap industry, some more and some less. When Jazz guys coming to AC expect to bring any credit with them because they worked at Jazz is wrong.It's a separate company like any CPA carrier. Your getting 4 years of bridge payments, that's huge. We have had guys financially impacted in negative ways because of LOU 18(OTS guys in particular) in the past and we don't want that happening again.
Any new hire , OTS or Jazz, should start with the same pay and benefits.
Those OTS guys have to make the same decisions with regard to pay cuts, mortgages, Wifey and kids,starting over, etc.Yeah it sucks but it gets done.
Everyone is welcome here but don't expect more just because you are from Jazz and I think some do..
And when you or anyone else comes over to AC don't bring any personal baggage with you, try and think as part of a group of pilots here who are already dealing with crap and could probably use a hand in making the place a little more united.

[rxl]

This doesn't affect me, but I hate to see guys that have been hanging in there passed over because some deal signed between a bunch of suits.

Some of those suits are pilot suits. While ALPA has NOT been involved in negotiating the PMA with Air Canada and/or Jazz, ACPA has been, and is involved in the creation of what seems already to be an evolving document.