Air Canada Pool

[Qdrivermann]

FPOKA,
You are absolutely correct. After years and years of full-out balls to the wall flying including eating up all the overtime I could get - I started to feel it both physically and mentally... then oneday I had a look at the Lufthansa Crew Info board down in the underground LH crew center in Frankfurt ... what I saw literally scared me to death... all the current and retired crewmembers death announcements were posted - hundreds of them. My crew and I spent hours looking at it all and what I took away from that is as follows:
1. Long range flying and exposure to cosmic radiation in the long term is extremely unhealthy.
2. Continual time zone shifts over a long term period is extremely unhealthy.
3. Flying higher than FL250 over prolonged periods of time is unhealthy (see above cosmic radiation).
4. Unregular sleep patterns over long term periods is extremely unhealthy.
5. Unregular and poor nutrition is extremely unhealthy.
6. Hours and hours of sedatary sitting very bad for the cardiovascular system - even in the short term.
7. Flying a fulltime schedule is okay while you are young but detrimental once you reach 40.
8. Breathing pressurized air increases the chances of absorbtion of any contaminants present in the air from the engine bleed air system (B787 exempted).
What did I decide to do about it?? Well, I cancelled my bid to the LRfleet (B777), applied for and received a part time contract (50%), and decided to stay on the Q400 because I can ride my bike to work everyday - have less nightstops, basically maintain a regular work schedule during the day worked and have more time off to get and stay fit and pursue other interests. The real bonus is that in the part time schedule the taxes are less but, the net income is not all that different from the fulltime salary because the more you earn the higher the tax rate.
Now, after several years in this new lifestyle I am healthy, both physically & mentally and more active. I eat regularily, defecate regularily and have normal sleep patterns with little variance.
My best friend went to the B777 the same year I took part time and given we are the same age - he feels tired ALL the time, can't sleep properly, isn't eating regularily and feels and looks like sh*t... he has marital problems because he is never at home - he misses family celebrations, and when he is at home he sleeps... and all of that for the *carrot* he will have more days off, easier commuting (less), and fly less. Well, after comparing numbers together he earns net (same years of service as me), 1200$ more a month than I do. We have roughly the same amount of days off per month. He has aged considerably in the two years he has been on the LR fleet and now he put in a bid back to the Q400 as Capt. In comparison, I actually fly the aircraft and stay current, he gets the odd landing and has had to report to the sim for a recurrency in approach/landings. I breathe fresh air after about 1,5 hours on average and get to go for a walk around outside after each landing. No commuting, just a 15 minute bike ride home to my family! 50% part time is ten days per month and that means roughly 5 hours on the bike outside of my recreational bike riding!! Bonus!
What I have explained here is a lifestyle choice - each to their own. But, please make those career decisions based on solid facts and choose a lifestyle that is healthy... burning your candle at both ends to fly some big iron to appease the ego is a quick way to get and stay unhealthy. Don't chase an aircraft - chase and pursue a lifestyle that fits you well. I must also admit I do know a few guys who love their LR flying abd it suits them, but they do complain they are always tired. But, it's all they have ever done and know...If I had to fly LR I know I wouldn't be around for a very long time!
Decide wisely, as FPOKA stated earlier you/we only have one life!

[LTD]

A slight correction to your informative post TheStig; note that on the latest equipment bid release a couple weeks ago, junior EMJ Captain is now at exactly seniority 3354 (not 3100 as stated).

If I'm not mistaken seniority 3354 is most likely year 1 at the moment... But of course, as time passed, this incredibly short time to upgrade might very we'll not continue.

LTD

Retirements are a huge bonus for sure, as stated 100-150 per year. In 2006 the junior EMJ Captain was around sen 2900, today it's 3100, three years ago 2600. There are about 3600 numbers on the list today. Without any further expansion, using retirements along it could take 4-7 years (earning 55,000-75,000) to hold the junior narrow body Captain spot.

[fish4life]

I think the big difference between then 2 companies would be seniority based scheduling and reserve. I bet at WJ it must be really nice for the first few years when guys at WJ are still just working the max 16 days (sometimes less) or getting pairings / overnights they want it is great compared to the AC guy stuck on RES looking forward to those days off only to get called on day 4 of 4 of RES for a 4 day pairing only to have their days off shifted until after it. Now compare that to the end of the career and the senior AC guy is getting what he wants and making more money now the WJ guy is still doing similar flying to when he started good or bad.

Also from what I hear from my AC friends is a lot of guys seem to like Rouge and it's socialized bidding with more CARS based rules so I think it's really just what each person wants. A previous poster nailed the riding the hiring crest key because if things do slow down (nothing says they will) but would a guy still be happy they left WJ to sit on RES for a few years at AC knowing the payoff is down the road? If you still answer yes then I think AC is for you if not then tread carefully.

[DH772]

FPOKA, it sure sounds like you are looking for a better lifestyle position that will preserve your mental and physical state. While I do agree that AC has a wide variety in flying that you certainly can achieve your goal, I know first hand that in order to achieve this you will need to make sacrifices from a financial standpoint.

Yes coming over to AC, and going EMB captain within a year making EMB captain wage and with the "current" DC plan will likely set your further ahead regarding all the points you mentioned in your post.

However, going for the first available captain route will not give you the lifestyle you desire. As mentioned above, these positions are junior for a reason. The Emb in my opinion offers the worst lifestyle as a junior pilot. You will be on a terrible reserve schedule with flying that transitions from late nights to early mornings more than you can imagine. I know many people first hand that bid narrow body captain back to widebody FO for lifestyle reasons and even a few that have bid all the way back to an RP position for a couple of years.

If lifestyle is what you seek than you will always forgo the extra money you could be making (and believe me it can add up quite significantly) in order to enjoy sitting senior in a position that works for you.

Choosing to go 777RP will likely meaning working 9-12 days a month. Usually 3 pairings a month of which half the time your resting in the crew bunk. However, choose this route and you'll be stuck on 4 years of flat pay significantly below what you are making at WJ and even after 4 years you will be making well below an EMB captain.

....my 2 cents

[TheStig]

[quote="LTD"]A slight correction to your informative post TheStig; note that on the latest equipment bid release a couple weeks ago, junior EMJ Captain is now at exactly seniority 3354 (not 3100 as stated).

If I'm not mistaken seniority 3354 is most likely year 1 at the moment... But of course, as time passed, this incredibly short time to upgrade might very we'll not continue.

LTD

Okay, I was using a ballpark figure. It's worth noting the junior EMJ Captain today is around sen 2900, and the most junior scheduled for training is sen 3000. The point of my post was to simply state that being awarded a Captains position in your first year is an abnormality that seems to happen once every ten years, not the norm.

[altiplano]

IMO. Course rights has changed all that.

Guys are 'saving' their courses for when they can hold the 320 at 20%, or rouge 767 captain, or.. Mainline 767 can't get FOs to fill the list because guys want to save their course for the 87 or triple...

I think we'll see EMJ, C series, and even 737 captain basically going to whoever wants the seat...

[Ah_yeah]

One of the best parts of an AC career is that you can choose to be "just a number" if you are so inclined. You can bid a min block and never take a call for draft/OT unless it suits you. Some of us get uptight about day to day micro management issues but even that can be shut off and ignored. There is no need to get get your blood pressure up or get shamed into not being enough of a team player. I prob sound like a lousy employee. On the contrary, I do plenty that is "over and above" but it's on my terms. People here are pretty level headed. That was a pleasant surprise when I joined many moons ago.
The hiring procedures have been convoluted for a long time. I feel for the guys/gals that get the long-wait treatment however it is well worth it. I fly with plenty of new hires and they are top notch professionals and humans. I guess the process works.

[bruced007]

Can anyone explain clearly how the course rights system works?

Thanks

[Fresh Prince of King Air]

I suppose my question to the Fresh Prince and others looking at leaving the Teal Team would be, why not try and fix all the issues you've highlighted to take advantage of the years of service you've already invested? It seems the WJPA simply has outlived its objectivity and a union representing the pilot groups' interest is long overdue. Easier said than done for sure, but when compared to 4 years of fixed rates at AC it must be the preferred option. FWIW talk of joining ALPA seems to be ever more common in our flight decks too.

I thought about this. My gut feeling is that we will be joining ALPA in the next 30-60 days, another 30 days to get organized an notify WJ of our intent to bargain, then most likely 18 months of tough collective bargaining followed by arbitration. That could be upwards of 3 years at our current working conditions. Then i think it will probably take at least 3 or 4 more CBA's of 3 years each to achieve something close to what AC has for working conditions.

I'm guessing it will probably take me 6-12 months to potentially interview and be offered a course at AC. So I'd start climbing the captain scale the day I start ground school rather than in 2-4 years at WJ. Years of service is a huge deal. Even 2-1 at Rouge is a big improvement from where I sit. Years of service at WJ doesn't really have much value if you can upgrade so quickly at AC.

Yes, i'm looking at AC for lifestyle but I'd like to minimize the initial monetary hit as much as possible. I know it's not all roses over there but I've seen the RIG's and Duty Rules in place to protect your crews and I prefer yours to ours.

As far as reserve, seniority bidding goes. There's not much in the way of a guarantee that we won't get those here.

Thanks to everyone for your words of advice I appreciate the feedback.

FPOKA

[Checklist]

For a new, OTS hire at WJ you're looking at a good 300+ Encore pilots ahead of you on the 'one' list.

#300= 6 years of upgrades. This turns an already 8 year upgrade into 14. Even 100 Encore guys puts you at 10 years.

Left seat EMJ at one year you say...

[altiplano]

Can anyone explain clearly how the course rights system works?

Thanks

AC had a problem previously with some guys doing a lot of type courses and changing seats regularly - it costs a lot and results in guys not being out there producing income for the corp...

The remedy in the 2012 forced contract was course rights - basically every pilot was given a course right to every group above their current position and a new hire is given a full suite of courses to use over their career.

A new hire today will get 6 course rights:

1 Widebody Captain
1 Widebody FO
1 Narrowbody Captain
1 Narrowbody FO
1 Widebody RP
+1 Unrestricted course right to any position (you get another of these every 15 years)

There are some exceptions where you can move to a new position without using a course right, ie. reductions...
or use only 1/2 a course right ie. FO-Captain same type...
or get previously used course rights back - ie. reduction...

Anyway it changes the landscape because you really have to think about bidding a position... there is no turning back once you use your course rights up and you better like your seat.

The idea was originally conceived with idea of status pay in each group... ie. Widebodies all pays the same no matter if you're on the 777/787/767/330 etc. - but since that didn't happen you need to consider pay/seniority/flying a little closer in making your choices.

Some guys may want to wait go only to the higher paid position - that's why you see EMJ captain and 767 FO going to new hires... guys are waiting to go to the 320 or 777 or for whatever reason not wanting to "spend" their course.

[infiniteregulus]

If the 80% hiring is based on proportioned size, what approximate number of pilots are on each roster at the express carriers? Jazz 1100? GGN 300? Sky? EVAS?

[skypirate88]

Not that it will matter much, but I think we have 1300+ on the list at Jazz. That was from a list posted almost a month ago

[co-joe]

Funny observation WRT hiring. WJ seemed to do a tonne of hiring from the AC feeders directly impacting AC's bottom line in terms of training budget. If you add up the costs of all the Dash and 1900 type ratings at Jazz caused by WJ hiring it must be in the 10's if not 100's of millions of dollars in the past 20 years. It seems odd to me that AC wouldn't take the opportunity to return the favour by directly hiring from Encore or even WJ mainline. Just an observation. AC business practices have always baffled me.

[fruitloops]

If the 80% hiring is based on proportioned size, what approximate number of pilots are on each roster at the express carriers? Jazz 1100? GGN 300? Sky? EVAS?

[nightbird]

GGN is at 240 pilots now.

[PROC_HDG]

Maple is now at 310+

PROC_HDG

[Inverted2]

And the first half (700 or so) Jazz pilots I can almost guarantee will not be going on the new PML if they didn't go on the last one.

[PositiveRate27]

There will also likely be a few people at Jazz and GGN that don't meet the 2000hr + ATPL requirement, though they will get their chance a few years later.

[altiplano]

There are people at Jazz without an ATPL?
Wow, how times have changed...

Anyway, new equipment bid out for those interested...

Nothing earth shattering, 384 vacancies. 90% YYZ, the rest in YVR...

Company is planning one more course this year and one a month in 2017 - 30 per course.

Good luck!