Air Georgian Cadet Program

[BTyyj]

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[TeePeeCreeper]

The industry is overal in fairly good shape right now, from what I've heard and seen.

With all due respect, may you tell me how long you've been in "the industry"?
Further more, please let me know where you bought your rose coloured glasses... I broke mine nearly 10 years ago...

Regards,
TPC

[Krimson]

1. Yes
2. From what I've been told, the transfer isn't as easy from FAA-TC license. I don't mean necessarily marginal conditions, rather I wouldn't be able to experience the same weather as I would in Canada, such as cold weather ops.
3. I mean being able to get some experience elsewhere in the industry before going to solely 705 ops.
4. Don't know, but flying between major airports surely isn't as hard in terms of handflying as bush flying.
5. I think it would be safe to say that I'd have trouble switching out of this to other parts of the industry. I can just imagine the interview with a northern operator now: "You did your training where? You did what?"
6. This is what I've been told by many in the industry, but 3000hrs seems like the benchmark nowadays, which can realistically be completed in 4-8 years as the industry is now.

The industry is overal in fairly good shape right now, from what I've heard and seen, so I think it'd be safe to say that limiting myself so extensively so early in my career would really be a disservice to myself when there are quite a number of options available at the moment.

1. FAA-TC conversion is fairly simple and straightforward.
2. You can catch on to cold weather ops pretty quickly sitting next to an experienced captain as you would once finished this course.
3. Georgian is 704, plus from what I hear you will get to experience a lot of "northern" practices. (plenty of deferred defects, company pressure, etc)
4. Flying between major airports has it's own challenges. Take someone from primarily uncontrolled airports and it will be new to them also. This program is clearly aimed at those who do not want to work the ramp in -40 for a year or two to fly into gravel. Some people prefer it, some want the fast track to AC. Neither is a "disservice to yourself"...
5. I highly doubt you would have problems finding another job if you discover it's not for you. With 1000+ hours turbine and a 1900 PPC you will be fairly marketable. If you pay $60,000 to quit after a month of working there...then you deserve whatever you get.
6. You would have to be very lucky to get on at AC 4 years after getting your licence. What about the average instructor who has been working for 2 or 3 years who are preparing to step into a 702/703 position. Work there for another few years to build some multi/turbine and then start looking towards places like Georgian or similar 704 with a dash or similar. You're more on the mark with 6-8 years at the earliest.

You seem to be under the impression that you have to slave yourself to the north to make it in this industry. There are lots of guys trying to get back home from up north and would jump at the chance for a spot on an 1900. This is an opportunity to actually do what you are signing up to do. I know for sure that my first job was never even on my list of what I would do as a pilot. It was just a matter of time before this type of program was introduced into Canada, and it will take a while to get right, but it looks like a great opportunity for someone starting out who's end goal is to work for AC.

[BTyyj]

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[cj555]

@ Frosty - I don't think the responses to your post are meant to attack you. I think they are more trying to point out that the information you've been given isn't necessarily accurate, and that this is may be a much better opportunity then you realize. I think its important to look at all sides, and take everyone's opinion's into consideration before making a decision. For this reason, I think your post has been very valuable in starting a discussion on this program. I appreciate all the responses from those who have alot of experience in this industry. It is not easy being a new comer just starting out in this industry.

[PostmasterGeneral]

So whats the deal if you're already a CPL MIFR 300 hour wonder with yur IATRA written? Is there a "condensed" program? Or is it more cost effective just to go to FSA myself and "buy" a type rating?

Edit: Not that I ever would pay to fly, just curious what the difference is here, and what they'll do for pilots that are already licensed?

[bverwegen]

I think the idea is if you are ab-initio you apply for the Cadet Program and if you are a CPL with a MIFR/IATRA then you would apply for the Mentor Program.

[PostmasterGeneral]

Any more information on the "mentor program?" A search doesn't turn up very much.

[ggn]

We are going to try and answer some of the questions that have come up but we would really suggest to the recent posters to go back to the OP or the AGL website and review the information that is available.

This is not a pay for training program in as much as those relate to really paying for a job. What you are paying for in this case is your ab-initio training, the money is paid to FSI not AGL or AC and the funds are used to pay for your private, commercial, multi ifr as well as room and board during training. Upon completion of the program you are hired by AGL and begin our B1900 training which we pay for. Transferring the lic’s from FAA to Canadian is very easy and nothing to worry about in fact you have the bonus of having an American commercial IFR.

After 4 years at AGL your conditional offer of employment from AC becomes firm and you transition into the next AC ground school. There are a few conditions that must be met related to your employment at AGL to proceed to AC but nothing more than what is generally acceptable for maintaining a good work record. You also have to pass the AC medical but you will have done essentially that during the selection process so unless you have an issue that has come up in the last 4 years you will be fine.

There is no contract requiring you to stay at AGL or AC, simply give your notice and move on like you would from any other employer. We would suggest that your training would make you highly employable for any operator in Canada considering the program has about 100 applicants for each position those that are chosen will have gone through a very tough selection process and made it through a challenging training program, any operator would love to have you. Of course we would be disappointed and you would be making a pretty big decision to turn your back on AC but there is nothing from our end stopping you.

Regarding the concern of only flying in good weather in Florida vs flying in bad weather in Canada you should understand that the reason training takes 4 + months longer in Canada is that you don’t fly in the bad weather. Yes the weather is more challenging in Canada but you will be sitting it out waiting for good flying weather, you are not exposed to it during ab-initio training. AGL’s line indoc program has been working with mentor pilots for 4 years now so your exposure will come in a professional environment under experienced supervision while flying safe aircraft well equipped for the weather. One could argue that this is the best place to get your feet wet with the challenges of the Canadian climate.

Regarding the concern of limiting your experiences and not enjoying as many challenges as you would at some northern jobs you should understand a bit more about AGL and the work we do. Of course we have the Air Canada work which actually brings a lot of variety. You can fly from our YHZ base dealing with the very challenging weather conditions that region brings, you can fly from YYZ getting exposed to some of the busiest airspace in North America or you can fly from the YYC base getting experience with mountain flying.

Outside of the AC work noted above you will have other opportunities, we have a very active charter operation flying all over North America with a presence in the oil fields in Alberta and we fly frequently into the North and do some very interesting work with the B1900 for some great clients. We had a base in Western Africa and we plan to continue perusing work throughout Africa. You can also be a FO on one of our corporate jets and get experience flying all over the world with emphases on Latin America and North America. Having said all of that most people stick with the AC flying because there is no better way to build time than flying the line.

For those people that already have their private license this program would not be the best fit for you, stick with what you are doing. Unfortunately unless you are enrolled with one of the post secondary institutions we have an agreement with there is no way to get into the mentor program from the street. But, you are still in really good shape; we will continue to hire the majority of our pilots through traditional recruitment methods. Both the cadet program and the mentor program are specific niche programs directed towards specific groups of people. Those programs will not replace traditional hiring of people outside of those small demographics.

If you are applying off the street you need 1500 hours but you should start applying when you have 1000 hours.

Our closing bit of advice to those interested is to apply through the process outlined in the material and do a lot of homework to ensure this industry and this program are both a fit for you. The competition to get accepted is very tough and if you don’t make it in don’t worry there are many other avenues available to you to get into aviation and to become a pilot. This is a fantastic program and the response has been overwhelming so we really look forward to sending our first group through in Sept. If you are already on your way and are enrolled in another program, keep it up, the industry is very hot right now and it will not take a lot of time to get the 1500 hours required to get hired at AGL or any of the other fine operators throughout Canada.

[BTyyj]

..

[+RA]

When is the deadline to apply?

[ggn]

When is the deadline to apply?

The deadline to submit your application is March 31, 2013.

[Cpt_frog]

Hi,
Just wondering what a good record is.
Lets say, i got a letter in my file...
How long does this letter stay?
(For a minor SOP deviation for example)
(Most FO's will have close to no experience, and brand new captains sometimes force mistakes on them.)
If I get this letter in my file in the first year,
Then manage to stay out of trouble for the remaining 3,
Will I still have my AC "guaranteed" spot?

[cj555]

When is the deadline to apply?

The deadline to submit your application is March 31, 2013.

Hi ggn,

I was wondering if you have an idea of when interviews are scheduled to take place, and when successful candidates could expect to hear back?

Thanks for all the info.

[ggn]

Cpt Frog,

We don't take disciplinary action for minor SOP violations but the specifics will be discussed in detail with those invited for an interview. What we are looking for is simply the standard of conduct and performance set out in our Collective Agreement and the same applies to any employee. The bar is not high but just what an employer expects from a 'normal' employee. In other words, pilots hired through our Cadet Program will not and cannot be held to a higher standard than other pilot employees.

cj555,

Applicants will begin hearing from us in early April and the interviews will take place later in April and into May.

Thanks

[+RA]

Thanks ggn.

I sent my application in earlier this week - glad I'm not too late.

[YVRSYD]

ggn,

How many spots are available to be filled?

[MartinB]

For those people that already have their private license this program would not be the best fit for you, stick with what you are doing.

How come? When I emailed you guys at the email address on the page and asked some of my questions, I was told it wouldn't be a problem. All I would have to do is convert my TC PPL to an FAA PPL and it would be fine right? And wouldn't that also cut the cost a little?

[ggn]

For those people that already have their private license this program would not be the best fit for you, stick with what you are doing.

How come? When I emailed you guys at the email address on the page and asked some of my questions, I was told it wouldn't be a problem. All I would have to do is convert my TC PPL to an FAA PPL and it would be fine right? And wouldn't that also cut the cost a little?

Hi Martin,

You are more than welcome to apply if you have previous aviation experience and meet the requirements. However, it may not be the best fit for you in that all candidates must complete the 48-week course and pay the tuition in full.

[MartinB]

That wouldn't be a problem at all for me. My ppl will be free anyways because its with the cadets.