Rouge rosters?

[DBC]

At full implementation, 319 will be max 5 days, with a max of 15% of pairings being 5 days. 767 will max out at 7.

[ratherbee]

A few 67 skips are making 777CA pay (if not more).

How do you figure? The pay increase from 767CA to 777CA at mainline is around $35k. It's even worse comparing rouge rates to mainline 777CA. You can't make that up in per diems.

I guess you never read the TA or the FOS? L74.10.04 (double time and a half draft premium).

[bcflyer]

A few 67 skips are making 777CA pay (if not more).

How do you figure? The pay increase from 767CA to 777CA at mainline is around $35k. It's even worse comparing rouge rates to mainline 777CA. You can't make that up in per diems.

I guess you never read the TA. L74.10.04

That kind of thinking is one of the many reasons this industry is in a downward spiral. Working a draft to make more money isn't the same as actually being paid a higher wage to start with. If I work my ass off and do all the drafts being offered to me I can probably make as much on the 320 as a 767 F/O. Using your line of thinking I am now being paid as much as the 767 F/O.

The only sensible way to compare wages within the same company is to look at hourly rates. The rates for L767C are far far far below what a mainline 777CA makes,

[DBC]

A few 67 skips are making 777CA pay (if not more).

How do you figure? The pay increase from 767CA to 777CA at mainline is around $35k. It's even worse comparing rouge rates to mainline 777CA. You can't make that up in per diems.

I guess you never read the TA. L74.10.04

You are talking about a LCC 67 Captain working 20ish days vs a 777 Captain working 9 or 10.

Also isn't November the first month where the 767 has pairings that are 3 days or less? how does L74.10.04 apply? L74.10.01 seems more apt unless I am missing something.

[yycflyguy]

A few 67 skips are making 777CA pay (if not more).

How do you figure? The pay increase from 767CA to 777CA at mainline is around $35k. It's even worse comparing rouge rates to mainline 777CA. You can't make that up in per diems.

I guess you never read the TA or the FOS? L74.10.04 (double time and a half draft premium).

LOL

Yes, in some people's eyes working more hours is a pay raise. Stop being ridiculous ratherbee, you're debasing yourself.

[ratherbee]

Geez! I'm not saying that working overtime is a pay raise just clarifying how a rouge pilot can make more cash than a mainline pilot. Seems pretty obvious.

[flyincanuck]

LOL looks like I threw a match into gasoline. But looking back I guess my statement re: 777 CA pay was a bit misleading. You work to earn your pesos.

We're a bit short handed and the company has been drafting a lot. One Capt pulled in 28k in the month (albeit 4 or 5 of that was from the ACPA profit sharing grievance).

The company/union did jack for those in their starting years. In fact, people with a year less seniority will be making 60k more than me in year 3/4 bc I wasn't showing 320F when the contract came through. If I wanted to move to the bus I'd take my "grandfathered" 67 RP pay and incur that deficit. I don't think so. One mainline CA had the testicular courage to call me a scab. We had a nice chat once we landed.

So Rouge worked out for me. But it's not for everyone. The senior widebody FO's with no command time would take a big pay hit...however if you had left seat time on the RJ, 9, or EMJ, moving over might make sense.

I've flown many flights with TC in the jump seat. We came incredibly close to outsourcing this flying. Another company was even given an OC, but at the eleventh hour CR decided to keep it in-house. If it was out-sourced we would have been looking at roughly a 300 pilot reduction.

[bcflyer]

Ahhh yes. Once again we fall back to the "They were going to outsource those routes" and the "We are lucky we didn't lose all that flying" mentality. We had a scope clause that prevented that. Period. Do you really thing that CR "allowed" us to have the flying out of the goodness of his heart? He is here for one reason and one reason only. To make money. If there was a way he could have sent that flying to someone else and made more money he would have done it in a second.

[berta']

Ahhh yes. Once again we fall back to the "They were going to outsource those routes" and the "We are lucky we didn't lose all that flying" mentality. We had a scope clause that prevented that. Period. Do you really thing that CR "allowed" us to have the flying out of the goodness of his heart? He is here for one reason and one reason only. To make money. If there was a way he could have sent that flying to someone else and made more money he would have done it in a second.

Exactly.

[ratherbee]

The 11 page scope agreement (it is not a clause) does not prevent the Corp from dropping unprofitable flying, nor should it. Aggressive low cost competition and passengers who are not willing to spend their vacation money on airfares are the real culprits. Many of these routes we used to service with B747's, DC-10's, DC-8's, L10-11's, B767's have now been replaced with A319's and EMJ's. The work and associated jobs have been heading out the door for years. You can't keep hoping that our past will somehow become our future.

However, you're correct about the Corp finding someone else to do the flying. That's why the President of the Australian pilots union urged ACPA to capture the work instead of allowing all those jobs to go to a company like JetStar.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Hi all,

Can anyone answer the expense question? Are crew meals provided for daily turns or expenses paid? How much can you expect to get on the 319 monthly?

Thanks!

Buzz

[berta']

Hi all,

Can anyone answer the expense question? Are crew meals provided for daily turns or expenses paid? How much can you expect to get on the 319 monthly?

Thanks!

Buzz

I looked at the Dec 319 Rouge pairings and all the turns show 0 for expenses. I am guessing they give you meals. Only one pairing showed a 112 dollar expense, that was an MCO overnight. It was a daily pairing so maybe you could get a few of those a month. I'd bank on 200 in expenses or less for the 319.

[watermeth]

yep.
at least, some will have the pleasure to grasp the meaning of "pay", and will make the difference with "pay including perdiems"...
how often will we have to rephrase that again ?

[Skyhunter]

Never, ever, counted my per diems as any of my pay. Usually like to eat good food and spend as much or more than I was given anyway. Find people that think per diems are part of pay more than a little annoying. You want to eat cereal in your hotel room to save money fill your boots, but it isn't pay.

[ratherbee]

Might be a good idea to lay off the Grand Slam breakfasts, Smoked Meat lunches, 16 oz Keg dinners, late night pizzas and keep the money instead. Just saying!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/fat-pilots ... -1.2433944

[Buzz Lightyear]

yep.
at least, some will have the pleasure to grasp the meaning of "pay", and will make the difference with "pay including perdiems"...
how often will we have to rephrase that again ?

If I agree a 100% that per-diems are not pay but there to cover your expenses while on the job, it still makes a big difference for a lot of people by the end of the year.

I'm a very social guy and I like to share a good meal with my crew but last month I got $1300 in per-diems. That's a LOT of good meals and drinks. I ended up with probably $700 to $800 in my pocket by the end of the month. So it doesn't matter how you see it, it makes a difference.

On top of that, you're getting very quickly tired of the same not so good crew meals and it's always nice to have a few bucks to get a decent sandwich when needed. That's how I see it anyways.

Safe flights gents!

B.

[LuckyPilot]

Per-diems are based on the exchange rate, country and the price of meals for the hotel you're staying in. Generally, once you get away from the hotel, you can find cheaper beer/food choices. Hence, most crews make a little money on the monthly expenses.