Employee Seating

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CapitalGuy
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Employee Seating

Post by CapitalGuy »

Having recently become an AC frequent flyer I have noticed something I am curious about. Often, as I shuffle back to my economy class seat I pass through an executive class chock full of AC employees. I don't fault these people as they are doing what they are allowed to do, but the optics are less than ideal IMHO. From a customer service/retention perspective, if there are empty seats in executive, wouldnt it be better to offer them to som lucky paying customers, and then let the deadheaders sit back in economy? Just curious. Could someone from AC explain the rules please?
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ogopogo
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Re: Employee Seating

Post by ogopogo »

How do you know they are AC employees?
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cpt.sam
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Re: Employee Seating

Post by cpt.sam »

I think if a crew flies a long assed day and ends up away from their base, they deserve a little extra leg room while they're shipped home.
I also agree that as a paying pax, this could certainly be offensive.
However, if the paying pax had paid the fare for a premium seat, the pax would get it.
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The Raven
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Re: Employee Seating

Post by The Raven »

It's a contractual thing. We gave a lot of concessions in the last few contracts. In return, one of the perks we got was access to the Executive Class cabin. There are rules to follow though:

1...Deadheading Captains get confirmed Executive Class seats.

2...Deadheading First Officers get space available Executive Class seats.

3...Finally, deadheading Flight Attendants get space available Executive Class seats.

In other words, access to the Executive Class cabin, whether confirmed as in the case of Captains or space available for First Officers and Flight Attendants, have been paid for by the employees during contract negotiations. I can't say this strongly enough...those deadheading employees have paid for that upgrade in the form of lower wages so that the traveling public can enjoy reduced fares.

The economy passenger has paid for their economy seat. They can upgrade anytime they want, as long as they pay for it. The Air Canada employee has paid for their business class seat in the form of lower wages. It's in writing, in our contract.

While I agree the optics may not be great, I will not apologize for taking my well deserved business class seat at the end or start of a long day. I've paid for it.
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CapitalGuy
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Re: Employee Seating

Post by CapitalGuy »

Firstly, I know they are AC employees because they are wearing uniforms. I assumed the 'perk' was contractual and I also recognize that AC employees have been getting kicked in the teeth for years. Trust me, I sympathize. I can't imagine the low levels of engagement working in a malevolent labour relations environment. I also find it interesting how the three groups of employees (Capt, FO, FA) get different benefits. Seems like it could be a little divisive. One could make the argument that the FA's are more 'entitled' to this perk as they are the ones on their feet when they are on duty. :P

I didn't ask for an apology. I was just looking for info.

Cheers
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jd832
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Re: Employee Seating

Post by jd832 »

The customers are our source of revenue. It is essential that they are treated right and given the best possible service we can here at Air Canada. If you upgrade them even though they aren't paying extra, it is something they will remember when the book their next flight on Air Canada. It's the little things that make a big difference, but unfortunately there are those who don't see the big picture and come to work acting like this whole operation revolves around themselves.

Don't get me wrong. I am very sympathetic to what's happened to our wages and QOL, but with the growing competition in today's industry we have to work even harder to maintain the loyal customers we have.

Remember customer services is the ability to consistently and constantly exceed the wants and needs of our customers and a lot of the blame falls into the hands of management too for not going out and sampling their product.
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Rockie
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Re: Employee Seating

Post by Rockie »

jd832 wrote: If you upgrade them even though they aren't paying extra, it is something they will remember when the book their next flight on Air Canada.
Which passenger would you upgrade, the nice lady in 17B or the gentleman in 19E? How will you resolve the dispute that arises when the person you didn't upgrade takes exception to the fact?
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jd832
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Re: Employee Seating

Post by jd832 »

Rockie wrote:
jd832 wrote: If you upgrade them even though they aren't paying extra, it is something they will remember when the book their next flight on Air Canada.
Which passenger would you upgrade, the nice lady in 17B or the gentleman in 19E? How will you resolve the dispute that arises when the person you didn't upgrade takes exception to the fact?
You develop a system for doing so. When I worked for an operation down in the states, they would offer the person who usually booked their flight first or a person who was a frequent flyer and prioritize as such.
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Bede
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Re: Employee Seating

Post by Bede »

Why would someone pay extra for an upgrade when the airline is giving it away for free? Air Canada makes a lot of money of the J cabin.
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prop2jet
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Re: Employee Seating

Post by prop2jet »

jd832 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
jd832 wrote: If you upgrade them even though they aren't paying extra, it is something they will remember when the book their next flight on Air Canada.
Which passenger would you upgrade, the nice lady in 17B or the gentleman in 19E? How will you resolve the dispute that arises when the person you didn't upgrade takes exception to the fact?
You develop a system for doing so. When I worked for an operation down in the states, they would offer the person who usually booked their flight first or a person who was a frequent flyer and prioritize as such.
Air Canada already has a system in place to upgrade the frequent traveller. The customer has the option to use an upgrade certificate if they so choose. I would say that in some situations, the gate agents will upgrade a frequent flier ahead of a non frequent flier given they have already demonstrated their loyalty. There is a reason why there are several classes of frequent flier...
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FICU
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Re: Employee Seating

Post by FICU »

Bede wrote:Why would someone pay extra for an upgrade when the airline is giving it away for free? Air Canada makes a lot of money of the J cabin.
From my experience the J cabin is usually full of Altitude frequent flier members using e-upgrade credits.
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yycflyguy
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Re: Employee Seating

Post by yycflyguy »

How is it fair to the full paying J passenger to have some random economy class passenger enjoy the same privileges that were paid for?

It's much like the platinum seats at the ACC. They are bought and paid for by corporate dollars and the average Joe would love those seats but they remain empty to protect the value of that seat.

As mentioned, it is a contractual item that is negotiated. Most are on their way to or from work and are actively on duty. The safety of the next flight is enhanced by a seat that offers the ability to relax while enroute. Continental Airlines had a billboard that read "if you see our employees in First Class it's because we think they are".
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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: Employee Seating

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

Rockie wrote:
jd832 wrote: If you upgrade them even though they aren't paying extra, it is something they will remember when the book their next flight on Air Canada.
Which passenger would you upgrade, the nice lady in 17B or the gentleman in 19E? How will you resolve the dispute that arises when the person you didn't upgrade takes exception to the fact?
I was talking to a friend last Month. He has been travelling on Air Canada for over 30 years and has elite status. Last Summer when he was on a Air Canada 5+ hour trans con flight, travelling on a last minute full fare flex ticket he was told he could not use his upgrade credits because there was no space available. He was very, very not impressed to see two early 20's FA's in uniform giggling to each other in their J class seats. He made a point of choosing WestJet for his next 5 flights.

Personally I think that is just bad for business. In the scale of entitlements I think the nod should always go to the person who is paying your salary......
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The Raven
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Re: Employee Seating

Post by The Raven »

Big Pistons Forever wrote:
Rockie wrote:
jd832 wrote: If you upgrade them even though they aren't paying extra, it is something they will remember when the book their next flight on Air Canada.
Which passenger would you upgrade, the nice lady in 17B or the gentleman in 19E? How will you resolve the dispute that arises when the person you didn't upgrade takes exception to the fact?
I was talking to a friend last Month. He has been travelling on Air Canada for over 30 years and has elite status. Last Summer when he was on a Air Canada 5+ hour trans con flight, travelling on a last minute full fare flex ticket he was told he could not use his upgrade credits because there was no space available. He was very, very not impressed to see two early 20's FA's in uniform giggling to each other in their J class seats. He made a point of choosing WestJet for his next 5 flights.

Personally I think that is just bad for business. In the scale of entitlements I think the nod should always go to the person who is paying your salary......

I call Bullsh1t on that one. Your friend is lying to you. There is a system in place at Air Canada to ensure any passenger that qualifies for J Class gets it before any employee. The system works well...sometimes too well. If any employee tried to knowingly circumvent the rules they would be disciplined, or worse fired. No employee is going to take that chance. I think your friend is mistaken.
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MRP
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Re: Employee Seating

Post by MRP »

A friend of mine is an engineer for a large consulting firm. Part of his contract is that whenever he flies anywhere he is to be booked in business class if available. The firm pays for this because they value the professionalism dedication he brings to the firm. I work as a pilot for Air Canada. Part of my contract is that whenever I fly as a passenger while working, I am to be booked in business class when space is available. Air Canada pays for this because they value the professionalism and dedication to safety that I bring to the flight deck.
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The Raven
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Re: Employee Seating

Post by The Raven »

To take this thread on a slightly different tangent, I was introduced to the new owner of a hair dressing salon a couple of years ago. The salon was part of a national chain that my wife had done some television modelling for about 6 months previous, yet had not been paid.

When the salon owner found out that I worked for Air Canada she told me that her husband, a frequent flyer with Air Canada, had purchased some guest coupons to the Maple Leaf Lounge for $15. She used one of them and only had a cup of tea while in the lounge. She complained that Air Canada had in effect charged her $15 for the cup of tea. I informed her that Air Canada had charged her $15 for entry to an exclusive lounge where she could have had as much alcohol and food as she wished. The fact that she only had a cup of tea was her decision.

She further complained that since there were open seats in J class, she should have been upgraded. I asked her if she had upgrade status or an upgrade coupon. She replied that she didn't but the seats were empty and the airline should have recognized that her husband was a frequent flier and upgraded her. My response was that the people sitting in those seats had paid good money for them (yes, that includes employees) and that if she wished to pay the upgrade fee, I'm sure she could have sat in J class.

I tried to be nice and sympathetic but after a while I really started to get pissed off with her attitude of entitlement. I told her that what she wanted from Air Canada was like me walking into her salon and demanding a free bottle of shampoo with my haircut, simply because I had been a long time customer. I further reminded her that she was demanding Air Canada give her something that she hadn't paid for, yet my wife spent 2 days modelling for the hair salon and never got paid. No more was said between us, but my wife received her modelling cheque a few days later.
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Last edited by The Raven on Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Raven
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Re: Employee Seating

Post by The Raven »

MRP wrote:A friend of mine is an engineer for a large consulting firm. Part of his contract is that whenever he flies anywhere he is to be booked in business class if available. The firm pays for this because they value the professionalism dedication he brings to the firm. I work as a pilot for Air Canada. Part of my contract is that whenever I fly as a passenger while working, I am to be booked in business class when space is available. Air Canada pays for this because they value the professionalism and dedication to safety that I bring to the flight deck.
Well said MRP. I think the salient point is that as part of your contract you will only get the business class seat if space is available.
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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: Employee Seating

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

Does "space available" mean an Air Canada employee only gets the J class seat if there are no upgrade eligable passengers in economy ?
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DBC
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Re: Employee Seating

Post by DBC »

Big Pistons Forever wrote:
Rockie wrote:
jd832 wrote: If you upgrade them even though they aren't paying extra, it is something they will remember when the book their next flight on Air Canada.
Which passenger would you upgrade, the nice lady in 17B or the gentleman in 19E? How will you resolve the dispute that arises when the person you didn't upgrade takes exception to the fact?
I was talking to a friend last Month. He has been travelling on Air Canada for over 30 years and has elite status. Last Summer when he was on a Air Canada 5+ hour trans con flight, travelling on a last minute full fare flex ticket he was told he could not use his upgrade credits because there was no space available. He was very, very not impressed to see two early 20's FA's in uniform giggling to each other in their J class seats. He made a point of choosing WestJet for his next 5 flights.

Personally I think that is just bad for business. In the scale of entitlements I think the nod should always go to the person who is paying your salary......
Does jazz have the ability to deadhead their people in Confirmed J? I heard that was happening, and I have seen their flight attendants in J while I was deadheading as a mainline pilot in economy.
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DBC
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Re: Employee Seating

Post by DBC »

Big Pistons Forever wrote:Does "space available" mean an Air Canada employee only gets the J class seat if there are no upgrade eligable passengers in economy ?
Captains are confirmed J with certain exceptions, FOs and RPs go after all passengers have used their upgrade coupons or whatever else they have. I should know as I have spent 20+ atlantic crossings in Y 8)
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