Fed Ct Overturns Tribunal Dismissal of Age 60 Complaints

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Raymond Hall
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Re: Fed Ct Overturns Tribunal Dismissal of Age 60 Complaints

#126 Post by Raymond Hall » Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:05 am

As Kierkegaard so wisely said, "There are three truths... your truth, my truth, and the truth."

How about if we skip the forensics and the drama, and move positively forward, instead of dwelling on our recollection of events that have already transpired, that we cannot change?
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Re: Fed Ct Overturns Tribunal Dismissal of Age 60 Complaints

#127 Post by snag » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:57 am

How about if we skip the forensics and the drama, and move positively forward, instead of dwelling on our recollection of events that have already transpired, that we cannot change?
Haha! Well said Ray. If there ever was a group that should take that advice... :roll:

(I'll check in with you guys again at page 10).
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Re: Fed Ct Overturns Tribunal Dismissal of Age 60 Complaints

#128 Post by Raymond Hall » Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:45 pm

Today we filed the Notice of Appeal of the BFOR portion of the Federal Court decision issued January 27th. A slightly abridged copy of the Notice, including the grounds of appeal, is posted on the http://www.flypast60.com web site.
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Re: Fed Ct Overturns Tribunal Dismissal of Age 60 Complaints

#129 Post by Stu Pidasso » Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:58 pm

777longhaul wrote:Indexing of the pension, well yes, acpa, did throw it under the bus. Stanley was the end result.

I had an MEC member, tell me to my face, as I was bitching about the indexing etc, that the younger pilots at acpa mec did not need the indexing at their stage in life.....they did not require it, and they fully expected to be able to renegotiate the indexing back in, over the next 10 years. The cost savings by getting rid of the indexing was to be applied to the contract. It wasn't. The indexing was gone, maybe forever, and acpa, yet fing again, screwed it up for everyone. acpa threw the indexing up on the table, and from there.....it went totally under the bus, it was their move period.
Martin sums it up nicely, there were plenty of Senior guys around at the time. Frankly we can all carry some of the blame here, for not coming unhinged at the time.

My understanding is that Stanley blindsided everyone by pulling indexation.
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Re: Fed Ct Overturns Tribunal Dismissal of Age 60 Complaints

#130 Post by 777longhaul » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:30 pm

This link will take you to the FP60 site, and you can read the various FC and FCA documents.

http://www.flypast60.com/
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Re: Fed Ct Overturns Tribunal Dismissal of Age 60 Complaints

#131 Post by Raymond Hall » Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:11 am

And the beat goes on...

We expect appeals from both AC and ACPA to be filed on the January 27th decision of the Federal Court within the next two days.

Despite all appearances that this saga is never going to end, it would appear that given the level of the proceedings, it will indeed end before too long.
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Re: Fed Ct Overturns Tribunal Dismissal of Age 60 Complaints

#132 Post by Raymond Hall » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:03 pm

Air Canada and ACPA have now served and filed their respective Notices of Appeal of the January 27th Federal Court decision. I have posted copies of the Notices of Appeal on the http://www.flypast60.com web site.

I have also posted a copy of a very interesting recent Supreme Court of Canada decision that could have immense implications in the over 200 complaints before the Tribunal--the Supreme Court in December decided that when calculating damages for wrongful termination of employment, payments made under the provisions of defined benefit pension plans are not required to be deducted from the damages award.

The financial implications of this decision, in my view, could be extremely significant.
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Re: Fed Ct Overturns Tribunal Dismissal of Age 60 Complaints

#133 Post by turbo-beaver » Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:33 pm

GULP.......the sounds of silence :rolleyes:
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Re: Fed Ct Overturns Tribunal Dismissal of Age 60 Complaints

#134 Post by RVR6000 » Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:42 pm

No one cares....enjoy your retirement :goodman:
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Re: Fed Ct Overturns Tribunal Dismissal of Age 60 Complaints

#135 Post by yycflyguy » Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:34 pm

RVR6000 wrote:No one cares....enjoy your retirement :goodman:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Fed Ct Overturns Tribunal Dismissal of Age 60 Complaints

#136 Post by MackTheKnife » Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:39 pm

RVR6000 wrote:No one cares......:
That's how ACPA got into this mess in the first place.....I figured you would have learned a thing or two by now
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Re: Fed Ct Overturns Tribunal Dismissal of Age 60 Complaints

#137 Post by turbo-beaver » Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:27 am

RVR6000
No one cares....enjoy your retirement


Thanks. Now, I have a chance to retire and enjoy my retirement. I am really eventually looking forward to it.
Not, that I will ever really want to. I am working more than 160 hours/month to mitigate damages......and have been doing so pretty much since I retired.

Now with this latest ruling I gotta ask myself why?

I could have had my cake and eaten it too......and not worked another day........according to this ruling and then got paid for it......so, I guess that makes me a loser......

Except for one afternoon when I was on a platform when a mother was having a problem looking after her brood of kids......one little girl she had turned her back on, ran towards an incoming train and and jumped in front of it, when yours truly just happened to have interposed himself to a position, like spider man would have done, and saved the little girl.

that gave me more satisfaction than winning the arbitration for the 4th pilot on the HKG flights, that I guess you dorks have lost again.......so don't worry I will be back soon and help to get it back.

So, I do not give a hoot if you care......I just only care if you pay your portion of the damages, should the Association you support lose these next hearings. And, then blame them......not me.
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Re: Fed Ct Overturns Tribunal Dismissal of Age 60 Complaints

#138 Post by RVR6000 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:09 am

Our profession in this country is under enormous pressure from all sides, have a look at the jazz section or the general airlines section. It pretty sad that the flypast 60 group keeps pushing this issues, what's the average monthly pension for most of these guys, roughly $11000-13000/monthly. A very few active pilots in this country make that kind of coin, so cry me a river.
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Re: Fed Ct Overturns Tribunal Dismissal of Age 60 Complaints

#139 Post by Stu Pidasso » Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:33 pm

Captain Beaver, you can come back anythime !

We've turned into a bunch of spineless pussies scared of our own shadow, you would be horrified.

The 'good old days' when we had Captains (like yourself) that had the fortitude to stand-up for themselves (and the profession) are long gone.
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Re: Fed Ct Overturns Tribunal Dismissal of Age 60 Complaints

#140 Post by yycflyguy » Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:00 pm

turbo-beaver wrote: Except for one afternoon when I was on a platform when a mother was having a problem looking after her brood of kids......one little girl she had turned her back on, ran towards an incoming train and and jumped in front of it, when yours truly just happened to have interposed himself to a position, like spider man would have done, and saved the little girl.
My hero.
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Re: Fed Ct Overturns Tribunal Dismissal of Age 60 Complaints

#141 Post by Mig29 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:30 pm

....keep pushing for your "rights" at the expense of rights of the rest of the pilot group.....that seems to be the new democracy theme of the 21st century in general. :roll:
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Re: Fed Ct Overturns Tribunal Dismissal of Age 60 Complaints

#142 Post by Ah_yeah » Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:58 pm

turbo-beaver wrote:RVR6000
No one cares....enjoy your retirement


Thanks. Now, I have a chance to retire and enjoy my retirement. I am really eventually looking forward to it.
Not, that I will ever really want to. I am working more than 160 hours/month to mitigate damages......and have been doing so pretty much since I retired.

Now with this latest ruling I gotta ask myself why?

I could have had my cake and eaten it too......and not worked another day........according to this ruling and then got paid for it......so, I guess that makes me a loser......

Except for one afternoon when I was on a platform when a mother was having a problem looking after her brood of kids......one little girl she had turned her back on, ran towards an incoming train and and jumped in front of it, when yours truly just happened to have interposed himself to a position, like spider man would have done, and saved the little girl.

that gave me more satisfaction than winning the arbitration for the 4th pilot on the HKG flights, that I guess you dorks have lost again.......so don't worry I will be back soon and help to get it back.

So, I do not give a hoot if you care......I just only care if you pay your portion of the damages, should the Association you support lose these next hearings. And, then blame them......not me.
Wouldn't it be ironic, Spiderman, if that little girl you saved had a father who was a young Air Canada F/O. You bask in heroism while dreaming of making her father pay. In the end you take away her ballet lessons and prevented her from going to college. You make me sick.
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Re: Fed Ct Overturns Tribunal Dismissal of Age 60 Complaints

#143 Post by duranium » Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:52 am

RVR6000 wrote:Our profession in this country is under enormous pressure from all sides, have a look at the jazz section or the general airlines section. It pretty sad that the flypast 60 group keeps pushing this issues, what's the average monthly pension for most of these guys, roughly $11000-13000/monthly. A very few active pilots in this country make that kind of coin, so cry me a river.
What utter false information. I have in front of me a copy of your present contract, provided by one of my friends and the numbers you present do not come even close to the thruth. 13000 means $156000.00 a year. You have got to be kidding or so full of hot air ( the remedy for that is named Beeno, you should try it ) that you will put a zeppelin to great shame.
No line pilot, to this day, as my friend explains to me with the numbers to prove it, never retired with close to that number of C $. A few, possibly could have came close these last few years to the 11000 number, but not what you write, that is'' most of these guys ''.

If you want to be credible to the forum readers, why not stick to facts and numbers that are easely verified and not try to snow us under with so much garbage. Try it sometimes, it could and will do you some good
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Re: Fed Ct Overturns Tribunal Dismissal of Age 60 Complaints

#144 Post by Mig29 » Sat Mar 08, 2014 2:26 pm

regardless, few thousands bucks more or less, these guys are retiring with more net income then majority of line captains are taking home today in Canada.

I said it before and I say it today again....greed of the humanity is what will bring the end of our civilization. The "democratic" rights of minorities are slowly chocking the democratically established rights of the majority, but the ones in power don't care, as long as it doesn't affect them...
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Re: Fed Ct Overturns Tribunal Dismissal of Age 60 Complaints

#145 Post by accumulous » Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:59 pm

Mig29 wrote:regardless, few thousands bucks more or less, these guys are retiring with more net income then majority of line captains are taking home today in Canada.

I said it before and I say it today again....greed of the humanity is what will bring the end of our civilization. The "democratic" rights of minorities are slowly chocking the democratically established rights of the majority, but the ones in power don't care, as long as it doesn't affect them...
Minorities don't have any rights? Sounds like you teleported here from a 19th century plantation. A lot of things have changed in the last century and a half. It's all available at your local library.
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Re: Fed Ct Overturns Tribunal Dismissal of Age 60 Complaints

#146 Post by Mig29 » Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:42 pm

no, I think it sounds like you are still living up on that cumulus cloud of yours, and have your vision fogged up there so you can't read anymore.

I said that these minorities are demanding their "rights" but are in essence invading on the rights of the rest of us. It's like a nation with a large number of cultures.......that nation eventually loses it's identity and has no culture at all....I have no problem if everyone wants to voice their rights, but then you have to sit down and listen to both sides of the argument and find a "solution" that will meet somewhere half way. That is not the case here.
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Re: Fed Ct Overturns Tribunal Dismissal of Age 60 Complaints

#147 Post by Norwegianwood » Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:03 pm

Mig29 wrote:I have no problem if everyone wants to voice their rights, but then you have to sit down and listen to both sides of the argument and find a "solution" that will meet somewhere half way. That is not the case here.
Correct! One side refused to sit down (acpa) so the adjudicator was called in, aka the courts! And that IS the case here......... :arrow:

Solution at a court near you soon!

NW
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Re: Fed Ct Overturns Tribunal Dismissal of Age 60 Complaints

#148 Post by Dockjock » Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:31 am

Young people simmer down. Think of it this way, the lower you are on the seniority list, the less a couple hundred more seniors coming back onto the list affects you. The damage was done with the original decision, with thousands staying an extra few years! This is just the cherry. 200 more pilots? From a numbers perspective, it's a speck, right? The only thing to fear is that there are a bunch of self righteous condescending pricks being rehired, whom are by all accounts here, will continue to be. Humility, contrition, self-awareness? So far all I see is a bunch of sore winners.
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Re: Fed Ct Overturns Tribunal Dismissal of Age 60 Complaints

#149 Post by TheStig » Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:02 pm

edit: nevermind
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Re: Fed Ct Overturns Tribunal Dismissal of Age 60 Complaints

#150 Post by Rockie » Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:20 pm

Mig29 wrote:....keep pushing for your "rights" at the expense of rights of the rest of the pilot group
What "rights" of the rest of the pilot group are being violated? There is no legal right to a set rate of career progression that I'm aware of but I could be wrong.

Interestingly the company chose to limit the career choices of all wide body FO's based on their age and the union seemed to have nothing to say about it. Moot now that the over/under requirement has been eliminated, but I think it was only a matter of time before someone mounted an age discrimination complaint against AC/ACPA over that as well.
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