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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:08 pm 
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Hello,

Brand new member on this forum (first post !) I am trying to find out what to expect as an AC pilot recruit. :smt017

Coming from a military (naval fighters) flying background this is all new to me, and I have to admit that [i]if my Situation Awareness in my jet was as low has it is right know on what to expect if I get a shot at joining AC...[i] I WOULD EJECT :rolleyes:

Now don't get me wrong, I've spent evenings (and nights... :smt015 )reading posts on forums about what to expect, nonetheless, I still need more explanations... :oops:

If my understanding is correct, when you apply for a job via their website, you apply for any spot at AC our AC rouge ?

● What about the RP - F/O deal ? When you join do they tell you after all papers are signed "you'll be a 320 F/O, no wait, you ll be a widebody RP" ? When do you know what fleet/ base you ll be assigned to ?

● If you are type rated, you don't have a training bond with AC, but do you owe the company a given numbers of years of service?

● If you get an interview and you go trough the selection, you enter the pool? Then You wait in the pool until they tell you : you have a ground school next month ?

● Usually how long does it take between they tell you your selection was a success and you enter ground school ?

Finally in your opinions do you think an ex military with ATPL, 1000+ fighters and 2000 total as any chance on the market right now ?

Thank you very much,



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:36 pm 
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If my understanding is correct, when you apply for a job via their website, you apply for any spot at AC our AC rouge ?

You get posted to an available spot, which may be at either, but most likely rouge.

● What about the RP - F/O deal ? When you join do they tell you after all papers are signed "you'll be a 320 F/O, no wait, you ll be a widebody RP" ? When do you know what fleet/ base you ll be assigned to ?

You don't know what you get until mid way through the Pilot Indoc Training (PIT) course. Based on a random class seniority draw and available spots.

● If you are type rated, you don't have a training bond with AC, but do you owe the company a given numbers of years of service?

No bond, no commitment. You can leave on day 2. It hasn't been a problem.

● If you get an interview and you go trough the selection, you enter the pool? Then You wait in the pool until they tell you : you have a ground school next month ?

That's the idea. When hiring is fast, there is no pool. That is not now the case

● Usually how long does it take between they tell you your selection was a success and you enter ground school ?

Depends on hiring. I got 12 days notice. Today there are people with many months in the pool. Hasn't been a new groundschool for a while, and none too close on the horizon.

Finally in your opinions do you think an ex military with ATPL, 1000+ fighters and 2000 total as any chance on the market right now ?

The military experience still carries a lot of weight at all the airlines. That being said, it's still a matter of supply and demand, and now demand is low.



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:07 pm 
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Dockjock wrote:
No company is the same today as it was 14 years ago, 10 years ago, and certainly not 20 years ago, and won't be 10 years from now. This is not unique to airlines, aviation, flying, or any business at all. Using that as a criteria to evaluate how good a job is or what it's future prospects are is pointless. Do what you feel is best for you. The good old days were nowhere near as good as everyone thinks they remember them (my observation).

My personal opinion on whether to stay home and work for WJ or AC is that living in a country like Canada as a free man, you have the unique ability to leave the job at work. Overseas where your company pays for housing, schooling, club fees, transport, and all the extras, that's all great financially, but even when you're off work you're still very much a company man. Going to the beach club? Show your company ID. Going to the restaurant? Show company ID for discount. Athletic club, social club, travel, transport, housing...company ID. You're taken care of financially of that there is no doubt. But you never get to stop being an Emirates (or whatever) pilot.


Well said. I have numerous friends flying for big airlines overseas and they love it. Definitely making more money than I am at Air Canada. Good for them (no sarcasm intended).
For me personally, flying for an airline accounts for a limited percentage of importance in my life. In fact if I had no choice but to take my career to Hong Kong or Dubai I would leave aviation. Flying just isn't worth it to me. It's a job, and the one I have allows me to live comfortably in Canada where home will always be. Plus it allows me to travel the world and have a diverse career and make a very reasonable income and pension. With criteria like that to satisfy, it's hard to beat working for Air Canada.



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:13 pm 
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I assume you have a replacement career or income source ready to go, should you have to leave aviation? It's easy to say when not faced with the choice. Heck, even if you ARE employed, gotta pay that massive mortgage on some pressed-board McMansion. That's freedom all right.

Aviation is something I regard solely as a job as well. So I wanted the maximum return on my time, professionally and financially. The stuff about expats "never stop being a XXX company pilot" in an earlier post is just uninformed nonsense. There are plenty of company guys at Air Canada who never "take the hat off" either.

Other than that, I agree that with the criteria you've set for yourself, you'll easily exceed them at Air Canada.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:49 am 
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Indeed here in Canada most mortals, pilots even, usually have to borrow money to purchase items that run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars such as real estate. Unlike Emirates pilots who I suppose would just flake a few diamonds off their jewel-encrusted hats (that they never take off) should they elect to forgo irrevocably their room in the company palace.

As well in Canada, wood is viewed as a superb construction material. Strong, inexpensive, easy to work with and available in abundance. Alas, it is flammable and would likely be less suitable for use in a desert climate, where it would have to be imported anyhow. Houses are constructed from pure gold ingots, as are the streets I imagine, in an oasis like Dubai. I dunno, never been. Will go one day if I can scratch up enough pennies, by the grace of my royal overlord the Queen of England. :roll:



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:43 pm 
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I'm sure there's a point buried in the sarcasm somewhere.

But since you seemed to have missed mine, I'll rephrase and summarize:

-Freedom in Canada is a bit of an illusion if that freedom is spent working mainly to pay off a large debt for an over-inflated, poorly constructed dwelling. Unfortunately, this describes both the current market, and most new construction.
-"Company Guys" exist in all companies.
-Pressed cornflakes and glue is not really wood.
-An Emirates or other expat pilot can certainly earn enough to pay cash for a house in Canada if they so desire.
-Sometimes expats get tired of know-it-all comments from people who've never even been to where we live.

I have several friends at AC, and we have a mutual respect and interest in each other's jobs. But given how things have worked out, NOT getting hired at AC was the best thing that ever happened to my "career path", even if I didn't know it at the time.

Anyway, gotta go scrape a bit of gold off the bottom of my shoe to buy dinner.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 2:24 am 
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complexintentions wrote:
I assume you have a replacement career or income source ready to go, should you have to leave aviation? It's easy to say when not faced with the choice. Heck, even if you ARE employed, gotta pay that massive mortgage on some pressed-board McMansion. That's freedom all right.

Aviation is something I regard solely as a job as well. So I wanted the maximum return on my time, professionally and financially. The stuff about expats "never stop being a XXX company pilot" in an earlier post is just uninformed nonsense. There are plenty of company guys at Air Canada who never "take the hat off" either.

Other than that, I agree that with the criteria you've set for yourself, you'll easily exceed them at Air Canada.


Fortunately I haven't fallen for the ridiculous McMansion madness that is the RE market in major Canadian cities. We rent a beautiful house on acreage and have zero debt. Being married to an educated "professional", switching careers would be FAR less traumatic than dragging my young family across the globe to live in some expat compound. But I'd get to drive big shiny metal right?? :roll:

Agreed about guys at AC who can't leave the job at work. But those are everywhere I guess.



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:12 pm 
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........


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:26 pm 
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aV1aTOr,

I think you'd find most expats care about the same quality of life issues that everyone does. However the "big shiny metal" pays the best. Yes, I know....everyone says "I'd fly a Cessna 152 if it paid the same". But it doesn't, so it's a stupid sentiment.

If you really think people live in compounds in Dubai you should visit sometime. For something you've never tried you seem to have a strong opinion about the "trauma" it would cause your "young family" lol.

Quote:
Sometimes expats get tired of know-it-all comments from people who've never even been to where we live.


Speaking of freedom, hope you've enjoyed your three weeks so far this year.

Quote:
"If you had to pay all your taxes up front, you’d give government each and every dollar you earned before June 9."


http://business.financialpost.com/2014/06/09/tax-freedom-day-comes-a-day-later-this-year-as-canadians-tax-burden-rises/?__federated=1

As I said, there's more than one way to measure freedom...

:P


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:35 am 
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I've found that a lot of expats living in the middle east have to keep telling themselves how good they have it, just to keep sane. I mean, who the fk would want to spend 20-30 years in the middle of the desert? Yeah, you get compensated alright, but not so good like you want us to believe. As far as expat jobs go you desert dwellers are just alright when looking at the overall picture. Flying in the far east, 2 weeks off per month+annual leave, can live anywhere I want, same cash money like your overall EK package. On average 200-210 days off per year, that includes annual leave. Initial training is a bit long and frustrating, but once that is done it's nice and easy.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:50 pm 
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jim_from_texas wrote:
I've found that a lot of expats living in the middle east have to keep telling themselves how good they have it, just to keep sane. I mean, who the fk would want to spend 20-30 years in the middle of the desert? Yeah, you get compensated alright, but not so good like you want us to believe. As far as expat jobs go you desert dwellers are just alright when looking at the overall picture. Flying in the far east, 2 weeks off per month+annual leave, can live anywhere I want, same cash money like your overall EK package. On average 200-210 days off per year, that includes annual leave. Initial training is a bit long and frustrating, but once that is done it's nice and easy.


hahaha Sure, sure. So who's doing the self-justifying now? :mrgreen:

Lots of guys leaving the ME to go to China, lots staying, some going back to their home countries. And lots who've left the ME and come back. I don't know any who've stayed as long as you claim, seeing as most carriers aren't that old!

Whatever floats your boat, and whatever works best for you and your situation. It's a global market now. Really, that's the takeaway from all this. You can play the willy-waving game all you want but I'm bored with it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:04 pm 
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Not in China, or Korea and definitely not self justifying. Just reading your last few bragging posts so I thought I'd chip in and deflate your ego. But if you're on the "syoupa" 380 your ego is not too surprising.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:29 pm 
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jim_from_texas wrote:
Not in China, or Korea and definitely not self justifying. Just reading your last few bragging posts so I thought I'd chip in and deflate your ego. But if you're on the "syoupa" 380 your ego is not too surprising.


He's a 777 captain



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:51 pm 
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jim,

That you see my presenting the facts of alternative career paths as "bragging", speaks volumes about you, not me. The shot at the A380 pilots was pretty transparent hahah! Trying to bring someone down to your level is a tactic for losers. But having to deal with misconceptions about expat life is part of the deal, I've long realized.

Just to be clear, I wish anyone on, or embarking on, an Air Canada Career Path, the very best of luck. Sincerely. My intent was solely to inform that in an industry that can be fickle, if for some reason it doesn't work out, there are options.

Hope that was humble enough for you jim, it ain't gonna get any more so than that. :twisted:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:43 am 
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"My intent was solely to inform that in an industry that can be fickle, if for some reason it doesn't work out, there are options."


Very good point sir. I am one of the many individuals who gave 30+ yrs. to this industry without being employed by any airline. It didn't happen for me (airline pilot) for various reasons. I came close in mid-80 as was offered a position with one of the Regionals who were in the start-up stage as F/O on DHC-8, I didn't accept cause of family reasons, money and relocation. I have never looked back and wondered should I have moved what would be the outcome and where would I be now - no point because it is mute. I trust from your posts you are yourself quite happy with your direction and like me no regrets and certainly no jealousies.



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:52 pm 
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Dockjock wrote:
Indeed here in Canada most mortals, pilots even, usually have to borrow money to purchase items that run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars such as real estate. Unlike Emirates pilots who I suppose would just flake a few diamonds off their jewel-encrusted hats (that they never take off) should they elect to forgo irrevocably their room in the company palace.

As well in Canada, wood is viewed as a superb construction material. Strong, inexpensive, easy to work with and available in abundance. Alas, it is flammable and would likely be less suitable for use in a desert climate, where it would have to be imported anyhow. Houses are constructed from pure gold ingots, as are the streets I imagine, in an oasis like Dubai. I dunno, never been. Will go one day if I can scratch up enough pennies, by the grace of my royal overlord the Queen of England. :roll:


Just so ya know.. LOL

I mean, I literally just laughed out loud from reading this gem.


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