10 year agreement with pilots

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Sea2Sky
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Re: 10 year agreement with pilots

#26 Post by Sea2Sky » Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:23 am

I would suggest that people on this forum who are privy to contract details to keep this information to yourself! Nothing has been ratified, and it's nobody's business outside of ACPA until the vote. Why do people continue up to spread our business on this forum the moment it becomes available??
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Jimmy_Hoffa
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Re: 10 year agreement with pilots

#27 Post by Jimmy_Hoffa » Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:52 am

ski_bum wrote:This is good news for us folks swimming in the pool for the last couple years. Sounds like hiring will spool up soon enough and the nice welcome gift of 10k won't hurt. It sure is nice to see a positive contract for a change, although it not all out in the air yet, it sure looks promising.
Doubt the hiring will spoil up until around this time next year. People are still not retiring. Also the signing bonus is just that. It's for pilots on property who ratify the agreement, not everyone that gets hired for the next 10 years
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MB22
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Re: 10 year agreement with pilots

#28 Post by MB22 » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:32 am

I would suggest that people on this forum who are privy to contract details to keep this information to yourself! Nothing has been ratified, and it's nobody's business outside of ACPA until the vote. Why do people continue up to spread our business on this forum the moment it becomes available??
+1
not sure why someone found it necessary to post it. very distasteful.
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SilvrSurfr
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Re: 10 year agreement with pilots

#29 Post by SilvrSurfr » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:55 am

MB22 wrote:
I would suggest that people on this forum who are privy to contract details to keep this information to yourself! Nothing has been ratified, and it's nobody's business outside of ACPA until the vote. Why do people continue up to spread our business on this forum the moment it becomes available??
+1
not sure why someone found it necessary to post it. very distasteful.
Agreed, very disappointing. Rudder (DK???) Why would you do that? Is it just a desire to be first or are you trying to stir something up?

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swervin
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Re: 10 year agreement with pilots

#30 Post by swervin » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:57 am

Rudder is not an AC pilot.
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Re: 10 year agreement with pilots

#31 Post by SilvrSurfr » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:59 am

Interesting,

How would he find himself in possession of such information, and who would provide it to him. Either way disappointing, have fun guys.

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rudder
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Re: 10 year agreement with pilots

#32 Post by rudder » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:05 am

Why post it?

2 reasons.

First - this is the digital age. Once ACPA pressed send on any document they know that it is in the public domain.

Second - despite the fact that this is an ACPA internal vote, others are affected by the content and the outcome. If anyone believes that a TA is a state secret then they have an inflated sense of importance.

Conduct the road show. Conduct the vote. And then move on.

The only people who's opinion matters are the eligible voters.
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Re: 10 year agreement with pilots

#33 Post by BingBong » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:08 am

You guys really think these cards would be kept a secret. This is heads up poker boys. If the need for secrecy was so important then like our Union there would be NDAs slapped all over the place and be kept in the dark. At least you guys hear something. You should be proud of the letters that your MEC has written to you. Very professional and giving lots of info without divulging details. And again. If the contents of this TA were so secretive...NDA.

Did this not happen to TA 1??
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SilvrSurfr
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Re: 10 year agreement with pilots

#34 Post by SilvrSurfr » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:14 am

Fair enough,

That said, the contents of this TA are currently an internal discussion for ACPA members. There is no internal value in a voting member with access to our private forum posting the details in an external fashion such as this. Either way it's not of huge significance just puzzling from a motives point of view. Like I said, have fun guys. Enjoy the show.

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Re: 10 year agreement with pilots

#35 Post by Bede » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:16 am

+1 Rudder
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MB22
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Re: 10 year agreement with pilots

#36 Post by MB22 » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:33 am

Rudder, I take it when your union comes to a tentative deal you'll come running on here and post it as well.
You know exactly why you posted this information so quickly. Don't scapegoat your motives.
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Re: 10 year agreement with pilots

#37 Post by Sea2Sky » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:41 am

rudder wrote:Why post it?

2 reasons.

First - this is the digital age. Once ACPA pressed send on any document they know that it is in the public domain.

Second - despite the fact that this is an ACPA internal vote, others are affected by the content and the outcome. If anyone believes that a TA is a state secret then they have an inflated sense of importance
Absolute nonsense. They didn't hit "send" to the Westjet gossip mill. They hit send to OUR email accounts. Whoever released these details to you are at fault, and are equally infantile for releasing this. But if you want to use the "digital age" to justify your need to wade into someone else's business, fill your boots. TMZ does the same thing, so you're in good company. It's unprofessional, pure and simple. Nobody expects that things like this won't happen. It's just hoped that when people are at the moment of making a choice of whether to mind their own business and move on, they'll take the high road. You didn't.

As for being affected by the outcome? Well, wait for the outcome. The only sense of importance is wanting to be the first to be the town crier.
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Re: 10 year agreement with pilots

#38 Post by Fanblade » Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:37 pm

rudder wrote:Original post deleted.

I doubt that the TA details nor the debate can be bottled up. But that is up to the ACPA pilots.

Good luck.

FWIW I didn't see the problem with your post.

We seem to forget that everything we do impacts the careers, livelihood and lifestyle of over 1500 non ACPA pilots. Of course they are interested. In some cases anxious.

The same isn't true in reverse. A new Jazz contract doesn't impact me. It's whatever. Not trying to be disrespectful just saying there is a palatable difference.

Why is it a problem to share factual information with everyone it impacts? Keeping information in the dark that impacts others is more damaging than its worth.

In fact I hope this was shared with Jazz MEC, not before us, but simultaneously. They are going to get it anyway. It's just IMO the respectful thing to do.

JMO of course
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Re: 10 year agreement with pilots

#39 Post by Krimson » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:30 pm

No harm can be done from posting this public. The AC deal affects a lot of pilots who do not work there, in the pool, waiting, etc.

Bargaining can always help with some outside input.
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Donald
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Re: 10 year agreement with pilots

#40 Post by Donald » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:44 pm

After taking a quick glance at the original post, it looks like congratulations are in order for ACPA pilots, and for Canadian pilots in general.

The fact they didn't stomp on the junior members to reward the senior members is something pilots from other large Canadian airlines could learn from.
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FL020
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Re: 10 year agreement with pilots

#41 Post by FL020 » Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:55 am

After careful review......This seems quite fruitful for the boys...THAT are retiring!!!! I see No protection clauses on keeping the aircraft currently at mainline AT mainline. All I see is 320/321/787/330 going to Rouge in the future. ......

Again, looked too good to be true. And so it is. Keep er goin down in a socialized way!!
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Re: 10 year agreement with pilots

#42 Post by 600RVR » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:42 am

FL020 wrote:After careful review......This seems quite fruitful for the boys...THAT are retiring!!!! I see No protection clauses on keeping the aircraft currently at mainline AT mainline. All I see is 320/321/787/330 going to Rouge in the future. ......

Again, looked too good to be true. And so it is. Keep er goin down in a socialized way!!

Not sure where you got your info. But your statement is not true. There is protections built in everywhere. Rouge 767 replacement can't take place until Mainline meets a Widebody target of a certain amount of 787/777. Rouge cannot replace the 767 with anything bigger than a 330. Rouge is still capped at 50 aircraft. Only 10 can be 320/321. Mainline must maintain a certain amount of Narrowbodies. CPA carriers connot grow unless mainline grows. Mainline shrinks so does CPA carriers. There's way more detail on this. This is just general info. If your an AC pilot then all info is on the ACPA site on the Webinar videos. Dont go by the general info posted by Rudder
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Re: 10 year agreement with pilots

#43 Post by razorblade » Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:43 am

Fanblade, +1
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Stu Pidasso
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Re: 10 year agreement with pilots

#44 Post by Stu Pidasso » Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:19 am

I take it this is the same loud mouth that posted the details on the "other" forum?
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rudder
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Re: 10 year agreement with pilots

#45 Post by rudder » Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:15 am

Stu Pidasso wrote:I take it this is the same loud mouth that posted the details on the "other" forum?
Just keep telling yourself that this info was not redistributed within 5 minutes after the ACPA bulletin was issued.

And then tell yourself that none of the 3300 ACPA pilots will discuss the matter anywhere but in the flight deck or on the ACPA forum.

And then tell yourself that the tooth fairy is real.

The post was deleted to acknowledge the sensitivity of some (but not all) ACPA pilots. However, that info and much more is already widely available.
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Re: 10 year agreement with pilots

#46 Post by crj_705 » Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:04 am

++++++++1 Rudder

The little girls and boys at ACPA are still in control of every aviation career outside of AirCanada, not because they deserve it...but because their Corporation controls it being the '#1 Mighty Air Canada'...

ACPA pilots cannot expect the table scraps that fall off the negotiating table not to be picked up and shared upon a PUBLIC FORUM amongst us vermin. Let the US and THEM continue right to the bottom, or let ALL of US rise to the top and enjoy the wild blue yonder together. :)
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Re: 10 year agreement with pilots

#47 Post by sstaurus » Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:05 am

Implement JV and codeshare plan? As in bearskin? Or is that other joint ventures?
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Re: 10 year agreement with pilots

#48 Post by crj_705 » Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:06 am

sstaurus wrote:Implement JV and codeshare plan? As in bearskin? Or is that other joint ventures?
JV = Joint Venture
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Re: 10 year agreement with pilots

#49 Post by JestWet » Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:59 am

Firstly, the details of your TA are widely available within WestJet circles whether they are posted on AvCanada or not.

Secondly, we appreciate being able to access this forum and hear your views & opinions on this topic. It seems, so far, like a groundbreaking step in the right direction for you guys which, in turn, trickles across to the rest of the industry. It's no secret that we're in the midst of negotiating our own TA at WJ for the second time after one failed attempt. It seems like you may have just raised the bar for all of us and we are waiting intently to see how it plays out. Again, the whole industry appreciates hearing the details and the opinions of what this contract will bring to the table as it really does affect us all indirectly.

Congratulations and thank you for moving the bar back in the right direction.
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Re: 10 year agreement with pilots

#50 Post by Stu Pidasso » Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:26 am

Hopefully one of the first groups on the distribution list were the WestJet Pilots, keeping it within the Pilot fraternity where it belongs. Not out on anonymous forums prior to ratification.
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