ACPA Leadership

[Bede]

http://www.watsoninc.ca/pdfs/ACPA%20Ad%20-%20Final.pdf

This is an interesting concept. Seems quite progressive. Can anyone elaborate on why ACPA is looking for a CEO instead of having pilots run the show?

[ratherbee]

ACPA conducted an independent governance review following the series of events that led to binding arbitration. The report was highly critical of the radical approach taken by ACPA following the 66% rejection of the tentative agreement signed in 2011 and the recalls of elected officials.
The biggest criticism was reserved for the new militant leadership who acted unprofessionally. It also pointed to a militant minority of the membership with unrealistic expectations that caused significant damage to wages and working conditions for the entire pilot group. The overall membership was also accused of falling into a strong negative group behaviour which added to the damage.
Other than that, there were some recommendations for structural change too. That's why there is a shift away from the grassroots philosophy to a more traditional board type organization. The MEC became too focused on politics and not enough on producing the best employment contract. This produced a revolving door of leadership. In 5 years ACPA has had 5 MEC Chairs and 4 Presidents (counting the recently elected President). It's simply impossible to lead such an organization effectively.
The first step following the release of the audit was for the MEC to fall on their swords admitting their previous militant approach along with their unprofessional governance conduct was to blame for the results of arbitration. They did this by unanimously signing us into a long term contract that neuters militancy and provides us with gains if management is successful with their business plan.
The next step is handing over political power to a largely independent board which will have far less politics affecting its decision making abilities. It looks like this could occur within one year.

[rudder]

Or ACPA could merge with ALPA providing the type of organizational structure and executive oversight that was recommended in the audit. It would also bring the AC pilots back in to IFALPA and make available significant technical resources that are almost impossible to replicate in a local shop due to economies of scale.

If the AC pilots are serious about change, then the option to merge organizations with ALPA should be on the table.

[Emu]

Google "Mark Young and BALPA".
Mark was an Electrical Trade Union leader who became BALPA's most effective General Secretary ( President in our terms).

[ratherbee]

Sounds like Young, a non pilot, served the BALPA pilots very well.

Perhaps that's what ACPA needs. An independent thinker who's salary is not tied directly to the corporation's financial health. They wouldn't even need an MBA !

ALPA is a very good organization but maybe we could create something better. After all, their track record representing the regionals in the US has not been stellar. Anyway stayed tuned, things are going to change, even our newest ACPA President says so!

[MackTheKnife]

The day that the ACPA so called "leadership" , took an active, unprecedented and illegal stance against 200 of its own members was the day it died as a union.

This change is the first glimmer of professionalism returning to the representation of the AC pilots.

[DH772]

Or ACPA could merge with ALPA providing the type of organizational structure and executive oversight that was recommended in the audit. It would also bring the AC pilots back in to IFALPA and make available significant technical resources that are almost impossible to replicate in a local shop due to economies of scale.

If the AC pilots are serious about change, then the option to merge organizations with ALPA should be on the table.

Rudder, a few legitimate questions maybe you could answer.

I've heard a few Jazz guys strongly suggest this idea. Why such a strong opinion about another union merging? Quite frankly I don't think anyone cares about another companies union choices unless it benefits them in any form?
would ACPA merge to ALPA benefit Jazz in any form?

ALPA dues are relatively high for Jazz at 2% if I recall. Is this standard amount set in part by ALPA or by the individual unions themselves. It would be almost double the dues if it was a requirement of 2%.

Somewhere in Jazz documents it states any merge of companies SHALL be date of hire. Where is this line written? Is it in your contract language or is this little gem somewhere in the "ALPA code" if you will? Or both documents?

The way I see it, if the idea of governance change belly flops, the option of merging unions is always there. However, I don't see the option there if ACPA were to immediately jump on the ALPA wagon.

[airway]

Somewhere in Jazz documents it states any merge of companies SHALL be date of hire. Where is this line written? Is it in your contract language or is this little gem somewhere in the "ALPA code" if you will? Or both documents?

.

Not true.

This statement is not in any Jazz or ALPA documents or policies to my knowledge.

The ALPA policy is for representatives of the pilot groups to get together and construct "a fair and equitable integrated seniority list". Every merger situation is unique.

Some of the factors that shall be taken into account are (in no particular order):

Career expectations
Longevity
Status and category

There may be other factors and methods of integration the groups can consider that they think are important in their situation (including date of hire and percentile).

[DH772]

Well this is why I'm asking. Whether something has changed in the language I most certainly recall reading some statement to the effect of date of hire. Couldn't tell you where that was written. How do I recall? Captain showed it to me one day. Unless my memory is betraying me I am certain there was something written to that effect. I Believe it was in the contract.

[airway]

Now that you mention it, I think the policy changed several years ago.

I think it used to say that representatives should first look at date of hire to merge the lists, but may consider other methods if that does not produce a "fair and equitable" list.

The policy now mentions "longevity" shall be one of the factors to be taken into account. I'm not sure of the exact definition of "longevity", but I suppose it could mean "date of hire".

The Jazz merger policy is the same as ALPA's

[Fanblade]

Or ACPA could merge with ALPA providing the type of organizational structure and executive oversight that was recommended in the audit. It would also bring the AC pilots back in to IFALPA and make available significant technical resources that are almost impossible to replicate in a local shop due to economies of scale.

If the AC pilots are serious about change, then the option to merge organizations with ALPA should be on the table.

+1

DH 772,

How did ACPA merging/joining ALPA become Jazz and AC merging???????

The only way Jazz and AC would merge is if the corporations decided to do so. If they did the only body with any real jurisdiction is the labor board. What someone writes on a pliece of paper isn't much more than a suggestion.

Your comments ring more like fear mongering than reality.

I want to know when ACPA is going to ask the membership what course of action they want taken? The audit gave two options. Join ALPA or fix ACPA. Why aren't we being asked? The leadership is acting like the first option doesn't exist. If they refuse to ask this basic question I have trouble believing anything has actually changed at ACPA.

Think about it. They have an add in the paper seeking a CEO but haven't even vetted the ALPA idea. Doesn't sound like both options were actually looked at.

[DH772]

No I wouldn't say fear mongering. Just trying to understand why the interest. Why not promote WJ joining ALPA? Or maybe there have been talks and I missed it. Again, just legit question as to why.

The 4 majors? 1 common union?

[Fanblade]

No I wouldn't say fear mongering. Just trying to understand why the interest. Why not promote WJ joining ALPA?

Just a guess but everyone knows ACPA ran an audit. That one of the suggestions was to join ALPA. The interest is likely non other than that.

I don't get it personally. Why do we want to try and reinvent the wheel? Our invented wheel keeps blowing tires.

So it's either back to the R&D stage once again......will it work? Might, who knows.....or we could just freeking go buy the ALPA wheel. The one we know works.

[Doug Moore]

The day that the ACPA so called "leadership" , took an active, unprecedented and illegal stance against 200 of its own members was the day it died as a union.

Actually, for what it's worth, a more accurate number is 458, which is the number of pilots that voted "No" to maintaining mandatory retirement at age 60

[teacher]

No I wouldn't say fear mongering. Just trying to understand why the interest. Why not promote WJ joining ALPA? Or maybe there have been talks and I missed it. Again, just legit question as to why.

The 4 majors? 1 common union?

The WJ pilots who want to unionize want to do it on their own. They have been in contact with ALPA on some level for guidance I believe.

As mentioned, this isn't a Jazz and AC thing, this would ALPA and ACPA joining forces. Adding the AC pilots to ALPA and bringing even more pilots on the same page would be a bonus to ALL pilot groups in Canada. The less separate the groups the better.

[Dockjock]

What exactly can ALPA bring to AC pilots, honest question. Everyone being a part of the same Union but on different collective agreements is, well I won't say pointless, but really what's the benefit? Can't bargain together, can't strike together (legally), cant have a "single list" a stupid concept if there ever was one, and professional lobbying is tainted by association with a labour group. The college of pilots has been trying to gain traction as a non-labour industry association for a few years now and pretty much nobody has shown interest in joining. AC pilots joining ALPA benefits the bank account of ALPA and...what else. Seriously. "Economies of scale" c'mon that argument works on a company with 100 pilots, 500, 1000 maybe. ACPA is 3000 and growing. Scale is there. I'm not denigrating ALPA I just don't see the point.

In the meantime, ACPA admitted some grave mistakes, signed a good contract that gives peace for a long time and value to its members, and is now moving the needle on governance. All good progress.

[rudder]

What exactly can ALPA bring to AC pilots, honest question. Everyone being a part of the same Union but on different collective agreements is, well I won't say pointless, but really what's the benefit? Can't bargain together, can't strike together (legally), cant have a "single list" a stupid concept if there ever was one, and professional lobbying is tainted by association with a labour group. The college of pilots has been trying to gain traction as a non-labour industry association for a few years now and pretty much nobody has shown interest in joining. AC pilots joining ALPA benefits the bank account of ALPA and...what else. Seriously. "Economies of scale" c'mon that argument works on a company with 100 pilots, 500, 1000 maybe. ACPA is 3000 and growing. Scale is there. I'm not denigrating ALPA I just don't see the point.

In the meantime, ACPA admitted some grave mistakes, signed a good contract that gives peace for a long time and value to its members, and is now moving the needle on governance. All good progress.

There is no comparison between the resources that ALPA currently has and the resources that ACPA will ever have.

And now that the collective agreement is effectively close for a decade, it is the perfect time to consider all of the other functions of a professional association and where they can best be found.

[Bede]

ALPA is way too centralized. ALL the dues pilots pay go to ALPA in the US and they decide how much each MEC gets back. Then the money gets spent supporting labour friendly (democrats) politicians in the US. This despite that something like 75% of pilots in the US are Republicans (military influence?) Not exactly the best use of union dues IMO. I remember how strongly they opposed a proposed bill requiring unions to disclose financials to their members. I always get worried when an organization opposes increased transparency.

To ALPA's credit, I will say that they have been indispensable in their promotion of aviation safety.

[Stinky]

ALPA isn't the answer. Did you watch their "Pilot Pay Shortage" video. Of the 10 regional airlines they showed in the slide showing how low the wages are, 5 are represented by ALPA, and I think 3 by Teamsters and 2 non union. That just proves they've been completely useless in improving wages and working conditions.

[rudder]

ALPA is way too centralized. ALL the dues pilots pay go to ALPA in the US and they decide how much each MEC gets back. Then the money gets spent supporting labour friendly (democrats) politicians in the US. This despite that something like 75% of pilots in the US are Republicans (military influence?) Not exactly the best use of union dues IMO. I remember how strongly they opposed a proposed bill requiring unions to disclose financials to their members. I always get worried when an organization opposes increased transparency.

To ALPA's credit, I will say that they have been indispensable in their promotion of aviation safety.

Fact check - PAC funds come from individual members voluntary contributions, not general revenue.

Step 1 - merge ACPA in to current ALPA

Step 2 - split the ALPA Canada Board members off in to CALPA With a significant long term services agreement with ALPA.

Step 3 - add new CDN based pilot groups to CALPA.

Best long term solution for Canada based airline pilots.