Applying with ATPL pending

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JUiCES
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Applying with ATPL pending

Post by JUiCES » Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:29 pm

As the topic suggests...

I am in a bit of a sticky situation, I would like to apply for the 737 first officer position which is scheduled to close at the end of the month. Currently I am waiting for my ATPL to be approved by Transport, they’ve had it for just over a week. They quoted my around 30 business days, which will take me past the ad’s closing date. Does anyone know if hiring is going to continue past September? Obviously I don’t want to miss this opportunity, and dont think I should say I just have the license. But I’m sure if I click on no to having my ATPL I’m immediately round binned. Any insight on my best course of action? For context, I’m just over 1500TT so it might even be a long shot I hear back. I am optimistic that as far as 1500 goes I’ve got some great time. Any help or information is appreciated. Thanks in advance!
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boeingguy
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Re: Applying with ATPL pending

Post by boeingguy » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:43 pm

PM Dave Pobran. He’ll let ya know how to go about the app process.
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altiplano
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Re: Applying with ATPL pending

Post by altiplano » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:58 am

Whatever you do, don't lie about it.

IIRC, around 13 or 14 years ago... Westjet had a situation with a guy that lied about his ATPL and then didn't get it from TC for some reason, but he got hired, and checked out... no ATPL, type rating issues, etc.

It was pretty fracking difficult to get hired at WJ back then too in the days of 10,000 hours to get a -8 FO job...

So be above board, submit your application as "ATPL applied for and pending", or better yet, call TC, maybe get a good civil servant on the other end of the line, and tell them the situation.. can they give you a confirmation on the phone it's approved? or perhaps expedite your case?

Anyway, good luck.
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Last edited by altiplano on Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

altiplano
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Re: Applying with ATPL pending

Post by altiplano » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:03 am

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ant_321
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Re: Applying with ATPL pending

Post by ant_321 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:02 am

altiplano wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:03 am
Here it is:
https://www.pressreader.com/canada/calg ... 3761391404
I found the guy on linked in. I was surprised to see he has his 6 months at westjet listed there. Looks like he ended up flying king airs after his situation at west jet.
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JBI
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Re: Applying with ATPL pending

Post by JBI » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:48 pm

This is a great example of a troll post that is just a little too well done. A first time poster, it has a great start on the premise that WestJet is hiring really low time guys and gets really good with the threat to do something unethical. Especially considering your alleged time is vastly less than the Encore Captains who are having flow postponed. Truthfully, I figured you'd have more guys flipping out. It was a good try.
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JUiCES
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Re: Applying with ATPL pending

Post by JUiCES » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:42 am

altiplano wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:58 am
Whatever you do, don't lie about it.

IIRC, around 13 or 14 years ago... Westjet had a situation with a guy that lied about his ATPL and then didn't get it from TC for some reason, but he got hired, and checked out... no ATPL, type rating issues, etc.

It was pretty fracking difficult to get hired at WJ back then too in the days of 10,000 hours to get a -8 FO job...

So be above board, submit your application as "ATPL applied for and pending", or better yet, call TC, maybe get a good civil servant on the other end of the line, and tell them the situation.. can they give you a confirmation on the phone it's approved? or perhaps expedite your case?

Anyway, good luck.
Yes I wasn’t planning on being deceptive, especially to such a degree! I was just seeking outside advice, and I thank you for that and the well wishes. Nonetheless, that’s an interesting anecdote.

JBI wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:48 pm
This is a great example of a troll post that is just a little too well done. A first time poster, it has a great start on the premise that WestJet is hiring really low time guys and gets really good with the threat to do something unethical. Especially considering your alleged time is vastly less than the Encore Captains who are having flow postponed. Truthfully, I figured you'd have more guys flipping out. It was a good try.
Well I am flattered to be credited with such inventiveness my post was quite sincere. As I just mentioned I never had any intent to lie, simply conveying where my head was at. I definitely understand the suspicion; but I’m a just a long time lurker, first time poster. :lol: I was perhaps ignorant of the post’s timing though in regards to the development at Encore. My roommate works there and is obviously less than pleased with the current situation. I never meant my inquiry to be perceived as a sleight or to carry any disrespect. I’m just a lowly 703 captain hoping to take advantage of the opportunity to fly for a leading 705 operator. Although it means little coming from oneself, I like to think I employ humility regularly. To that end I’m just blown away and thankful that 1500 hours makes me eligible.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Applying with ATPL pending

Post by goingnowherefast » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:35 am

I'm also blown away that 1500 hrs is a 703 captain these days, and with enough time in the seat to be looking elsewhere.
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DaveP
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Re: Applying with ATPL pending

Post by DaveP » Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:04 pm

goingnowherefast wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:35 am
I'm also blown away that 1500 hrs is a 703 captain these days, and with enough time in the seat to be looking elsewhere.
Hi all,

Indeed the “low time” is a sign of the times!

The total time is definitely coming down in all areas and for all companies in the industry and it’s really nothing to see a CV from folks with 1000 hrs being a captain on a king air etc. I ran the class averages ytd a couple months ago and Encore is sitting at 1900 and if memory serves WJ was around 4000. Anecdotally, I believe it’s starting to drop without running new numbers.

It will be an interesting year in 2020 with all the hiring - between us and AC it’s going to put an enormous amount of pressure on the smaller operators. For us, we are looking at about 180 new hires for mainline before June and approx 100 spread out on courses after that to the fall. Simulators are going to be booked to the max in Q1 and we are looking at overflow options as well.

This hiring is driven primarily by widebody and narrowbody growth, reserve, the new fatigue and duty rules and new agreement language. There is also some attrition due to retirements and a few people leaving to try a different path.

Exciting times for young pilots indeed!

As for the original question - if you apply to the posting indicating that you don’t have an atpl - the computer will automatically disqualify your application (this is a knockout question in the background).

Having said that, I certainly don’t mind if you apply - AND “click” that you have an atpl (but not in hand - it’s submitted and processing with TC) please be super CLEAR on your application or other notes that it has been submitted and is processing. I’m fine with that even though there is a chance it could come back to you incomplete or having an issue with times etc. I would only suggest this for those who have met all the qualifications and have physically submitted their application to TC. We can work with you - this goes for any of our open postings: Direct entry Captain Q400 (Atpl req), FO Encore/flightpath(Iatra,or written Atpl exams completed), FO WestJet (Atpl req).

Honesty and transparency is key for obvious reasons. I certainly recall the above example well.

Take care,
Safe flying
Dave
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altiplano
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Re: Applying with ATPL pending

Post by altiplano » Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:22 pm

JBI wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:48 pm
This is a great example of a troll post that is just a little too well done. A first time poster, it has a great start on the premise that WestJet is hiring really low time guys and gets really good with the threat to do something unethical. Especially considering your alleged time is vastly less than the Encore Captains who are having flow postponed. Truthfully, I figured you'd have more guys flipping out. It was a good try.
I'm pretty cynical, and it seemed a pretty genuine question to me... someone that can't wait to apply to the airlines... and I don't see any threat?

Just another jaded regional guy I guess... :smt010
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JBI
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Re: Applying with ATPL pending

Post by JBI » Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:02 am

altiplano wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:22 pm
JBI wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:48 pm
This is a great example of a troll post that is just a little too well done. A first time poster, it has a great start on the premise that WestJet is hiring really low time guys and gets really good with the threat to do something unethical. Especially considering your alleged time is vastly less than the Encore Captains who are having flow postponed. Truthfully, I figured you'd have more guys flipping out. It was a good try.
I'm pretty cynical, and it seemed a pretty genuine question to me... someone that can't wait to apply to the airlines... and I don't see any threat?

Just another jaded regional guy I guess... :smt010
Apparently I'm wrong so my apologies for that. I'm actually not jaded at all, I think it's pretty amazing the opportunities that the new guys have these days as compared to when I started working in aviation in September 2001. So again, I'm sorry for an insincere reply to an honest question.

However, perhaps I have gotten too cynical with respect to the responses on this forum. I figured for sure we'd get about 32 responses saying "you need to pay your dues" or "you need to go to the regionals first!"

On a broader scale, and no ill will towards any particular person striving for the best job that they can get, WJ will be facing a backlash if they actually do hire a 1500 TT applicant when there are 4000-6000+ hour DHC8-400 Captains waiting to flow which has been postponed (for the record, personally I'm not in a hurry to flow and am very content in my current position for multiple reasons related and unrelated to flying).
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Sharklasers
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Re: Applying with ATPL pending

Post by Sharklasers » Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:06 am

JBI wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:02 am

On a broader scale, and no ill will towards any particular person striving for the best job that they can get, WJ will be facing a backlash if they actually do hire a 1500 TT applicant when there are 4000-6000+ hour DHC8-400 Captains waiting to flow which has been postponed

Two questions, what’s the difference between a theoretical 1500 hour pilot and the 3000 hour pilots currently sliding into “your” flow through positions? And what are you guys going to do about it except pout if they were?
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JBI
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Re: Applying with ATPL pending

Post by JBI » Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:51 am

Sharklasers wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:06 am

Two questions, what’s the difference between a theoretical 1500 hour pilot and the 3000 hour pilots currently sliding into “your” flow through positions? And what are you guys going to do about it except pout if they were?
Ah ha! I didn't underestimate the troll value of this board :lol:
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kiaszceski
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Re: Applying with ATPL pending

Post by kiaszceski » Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:55 am

JBI wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:02 am
WJ will be facing a backlash if they actually do hire a 1500 TT applicant when there are 4000-6000+ hour DHC8-400 Captains waiting to flow which has been postponed (for the record, personally I'm not in a hurry to flow and am very content in my current position for multiple reasons related and unrelated to flying).
The main issue is people leaving for AC.
Westjet needs to fix this and the only way to get into Westjet will be from Encore.
If you have a good salary it is much easier to wait for the flow...
Maybe merging the companies and raising a bit wages and conditions will help?
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Sharklasers
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Re: Applying with ATPL pending

Post by Sharklasers » Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:19 am

JBI wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:51 am
Sharklasers wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:06 am

Two questions, what’s the difference between a theoretical 1500 hour pilot and the 3000 hour pilots currently sliding into “your” flow through positions? And what are you guys going to do about it except pout if they were?
Ah ha! I didn't underestimate the troll value of this board :lol:

"Everyone who disagrees with me is a troll/nazi!- JBI"

This is the death of public discourse.

Serious question though, what recourse do you have if Westjet never hires from Encore again? Is there anything in the contract? Could Westjet walk into MFC today and grab every 200 hr pilot they see and press them into service at mainline?
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JBI
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Re: Applying with ATPL pending

Post by JBI » Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:18 am

Sharklasers wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:19 am

"Everyone who disagrees with me is a troll/nazi!- JBI"

This is the death of public discourse.

Serious question though, what recourse do you have if Westjet never hires from Encore again? Is there anything in the contract? Could Westjet walk into MFC today and grab every 200 hr pilot they see and press them into service at mainline?
There's a significant difference between public discourse in a mature respectful manner and trying to troll someone on the internet. I love respectful discourse and debate. Starting a post with the derogatory '"your" flow positions' and then suggesting that all a pilot group can do is "pout" doesn't actually open the door to respectful debate. Especially as it shows that you don't quite understand the full issues at hand (which, I don't blame you as you work at another airline and are not privy to the actual contracts).

Further, making an erroneous logical jump to suggesting that I didn't engage with you because I (a) disagreed with you or (b) suggested that I somehow think anyone who disagrees with me is a 'nazi' is not respectful public discourse and again, logically incorrect.

However, moving behind the snarky nature of your questions, the situation at WR/WS is actually pretty complex. There are contractual requirements for flow, though the company does have some discretion in that. However, the biggest issue is simply attrition. The company is well aware that Encore Captains (and FOs to a lesser extent) have been speaking with their feet.

Due to my position, that's about the extent that I can discuss online, but if you're around YYZ I'm always up for coffee, discussion and debate (seriously, I was on the debate team in high school).

I do kindly ask that you rescind the nazi reference though.

Cheers
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