Will Westjet survive?

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dialdriver
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by dialdriver »

Oscar wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:25 pm
No Socks is likely one of the Tech Ops
Negative

"NoSocks" is DH, ex-rewards analyst, a long time pilot hater with a history of trolling pilots on various social media platforms, particularly Yammer.
Because you're a pilot, you've got it too easy and need to be punished.
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Sonic17
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by Sonic17 »

That NoSocks guy certainly isn’t me. I know that...because I’m him. My buddy (who is very active in this forum) looped me in ( I won’t out him because you’ll probably treat him like a Swoop pilot - I mean, a WS pilot is friends with a noted WS pilot hater...it’s the stuff of nightmares right?).

Although, I do appreciate the sentiment that ya’ll have me on a hate list. Warms the cockles of my heart.

All kidding aside...(who kidding?!) this is some $hitty times - union or no union. Careers are in the gutter or at a complete stop. Not good for anyone (even you jerk pilots).

Wash your hands

(And if I could post an animated gif I would )
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NoSocks
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by NoSocks »

JBI wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:16 pm
NoSocks wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:41 pm

So I'll just sit here, collecting my max CEWS while working another gig waiting for my eventual layoff and 16 weeks severance, while your cohorts sit on EI praying for that call back.
NoSocks wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:41 pm

Yup. Anti-Union. Your union is collecting union dues from members who are on CEWS! Scum. Complete Scum.
A few clarifications are needed:

All the 700 laid off pilots are currently on CEWS and will be until the program's expiry date of August 29, 2020 (though it is possible that this will get extended). After that time, pilots who remain on lay-off will be required to apply for EI. This is the same as all other employees, presumably, including yourself.

The remaining 1600 pilots have all made concessions with reduced hours and ancillary pay, but are making more than just CEWS (though the company does receive a subsidy through the CEWS program).

Because the pilots currently on lay-off are receiving CEWS, they are being paid by the company. It is considered wages by the Government and pursuant to the Canada Labour Code, union dues MUST be deducted from wages. Such scum, following the laws and all...

Now, in NoSocks' defence, he is allowed to collect CEWS and work another job as long as the other employer is not receiving CEWS for his employment. That is allowed and we have some of our laid-off pilots doing that as well. But, for everyone, once the CEWS program ends (whether August 29 or a later date), once on EI, you have to declare all income and, a certain percentage of it will be deducted from your EI payments.

Anyways, hope that clarifies a few things. Apologies if there are multiple grammatical errors. To be fair, in all of my dozen or so written works that have been published, I spent considerably more time drafting and editing my work for my book and magazine articles than I have for any of these posts correcting an angry anonymous internet poster.
A dozen published written works! A literary genius.
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JBI
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by JBI »

NoSocks wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:21 pm
A dozen published written works! A literary genius.
Never said I was a literary genius. But you definitely are a piece of work. :smt056
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KAG
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by KAG »

JBI you're being too kind, nosocks is ....why bother, it just feeds some sick sense of whatever the @#$! fuels a troll.

Stay healthy all, and regardless of what nosicks predicts we'll be flying again soon.
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Oscar
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by Oscar »

sorry nosocks / sonic for the name mixup.
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Mach1
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by Mach1 »

NoSocks wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:38 pm
I'm not collecting government assistance, WJ is. I get paycheck from WJ, not the government. Jeesus...and you're operating an aircraft?

I noticed you did not answer a single question asked of you. One can only conclude that you are incapable of giving an answer, choosing instead to attempt a personal insult at a rather childish level. That must be all you have, childish hate and vitriol.

I hope you never turned a wrench on anything that ever flew. The very thought is terrifying.
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Biff
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by Biff »

NoSocks wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:21 pm
sstaurus wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:31 am
Management did their best to paint the pilots as the devil during negotiations and pit the rest of the employees against them. I think what we have here is an example of the brainwashing having its intended effect.
Management didn't try to paint pilots as the devil, ya'll did that when you lined the road on investors day. All that press scared off would be WJ flyers to our competition. Cost the organization millions. All for what? Seriously, what did the bottom 80% get out of this?

Calling me a bunch of names isn't very constructive and it just reinforces the narrative that the entire industry has of you. We succeed not because of you, rather in spite of you.

Sure, I may never work at WJ again, but ...it doesn't matter. I don't need 120 months of recall rights. I don't need that type of protection. I'm employable.

So I'll just sit here, collecting my max CEWS while working another gig waiting for my eventual layoff and 16 weeks severance, while your cohorts sit on EI praying for that call back.

...and I'm the sheep?!
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Bede
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by Bede »

Sonic17 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:12 pm
That NoSocks guy certainly isn’t me. I know that...because I’m him. My buddy (who is very active in this forum) looped me in ( I won’t out him because you’ll probably treat him like a Swoop pilot - I mean, a WS pilot is friends with a noted WS pilot hater...it’s the stuff of nightmares right?).

Although, I do appreciate the sentiment that ya’ll have me on a hate list. Warms the cockles of my heart.

All kidding aside...(who kidding?!) this is some $hitty times - union or no union. Careers are in the gutter or at a complete stop. Not good for anyone (even you jerk pilots).

Wash your hands

(And if I could post an animated gif I would )
Sonic,
I'm honestly curious your thoughts (and your office colleagues) on this whole 3333 permanent layoffs. The way I see it, this has little to do with Covid as WJ could have just kept these employees on layoff until recovery. To paraphrase Ed/Mark about the CSA's- they're just too expensive compared to contractors. Of course they want existing CSA's in those roles. Who wouldn't want to have employees with the skills demanding $20-$30/hr working at a job for $15-$20/hr, that they don't need to train. It's disingenuous for them to suggest that they want these employees in these roles to help them out.

I have a good job, and if WJ wants to come after me, well, I have a union to fight for me. But I always judge people based on how they treat the powerless; and in this case WJ management's actions are unforgivable. The very people who resisted unionization, took LOA's to help out- and now, this is how they're repaid.

I was once, like you, fervently anti-union. But as WJ started going after the CSA's, I knew that there was a change in philosophy and we required a union. The events seem to just strengthen my support for unionization.

Your thoughts?
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Sonic17
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by Sonic17 »

Bede wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:47 am
Sonic17 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:12 pm
That NoSocks guy certainly isn’t me. I know that...because I’m him. My buddy (who is very active in this forum) looped me in ( I won’t out him because you’ll probably treat him like a Swoop pilot - I mean, a WS pilot is friends with a noted WS pilot hater...it’s the stuff of nightmares right?).

Although, I do appreciate the sentiment that ya’ll have me on a hate list. Warms the cockles of my heart.

All kidding aside...(who kidding?!) this is some $hitty times - union or no union. Careers are in the gutter or at a complete stop. Not good for anyone (even you jerk pilots).

Wash your hands

(And if I could post an animated gif I would )
Sonic,
I'm honestly curious your thoughts (and your office colleagues) on this whole 3333 permanent layoffs. The way I see it, this has little to do with Covid as WJ could have just kept these employees on layoff until recovery. To paraphrase Ed/Mark about the CSA's- they're just too expensive compared to contractors. Of course they want existing CSA's in those roles. Who wouldn't want to have employees with the skills demanding $20-$30/hr working at a job for $15-$20/hr, that they don't need to train. It's disingenuous for them to suggest that they want these employees in these roles to help them out.

I have a good job, and if WJ wants to come after me, well, I have a union to fight for me. But I always judge people based on how they treat the powerless; and in this case WJ management's actions are unforgivable. The very people who resisted unionization, took LOA's to help out- and now, this is how they're repaid.

I was once, like you, fervently anti-union. But as WJ started going after the CSA's, I knew that there was a change in philosophy and we required a union. The events seem to just strengthen my support for unionization.

Your thoughts?
I have some thoughts...

The minute ONEX swooped (teehee) in I expected the following;

1. TAC to be sold off/ shut down
2. Contracted airport staff
3. Encore to be sold off
4. Swoop to “rouge” more routes
5. Contact centre outsourced

So far I’m 2 for 5.

The colleagues I stay in touch with are very “pro WestJet”. They’ve been at the organization for many years (some are day 1’ers) some are dismayed at the approach the ELT are taking ... others are oblivious and believe the company can do no harm.

I’d like to believe I understand enough to know that this is a business and everyone is here to make a buck (even me) and sometimes at the expense of others (see current layoffs as an example).

I know exactly what is going to happen to me. My LOA will be turned permanent (probably in the coming weeks) and I’ll have to fight for severance (and to get my hockey stick back from the office). Looking for work in this climate with my skill set isn’t going to be easy (there are many unemployed people out there that do exactly what I do).

Everything kinda sucks at the moment.

Oh and I’m not anti- union by any means (I’m anti -a$$hole). I worked for the Feds/NavCan at one point in my career(PIPSC) and was laid off. The union insured I was well taken care of (84 weeks of salary). However, Unions sure do protect the mediocre.
(Edit : so many spelling mistakes—-)
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KAG
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by KAG »

Sonic, I hope for your case (and other WJers ) you're wrong on a few points.
I truly hope that someone from onex is monitoring this thread and takes this to heart - what made Westjet Westjet was the people, not cheap labour.
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Last edited by KAG on Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bede
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by Bede »

Hey Sonic,

Thanks for the honest response. I wish you all the best getting back to work.
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bobcaygeon
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by bobcaygeon »

Bede wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:47 am
Sonic17 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:12 pm
That NoSocks guy certainly isn’t me. I know that...because I’m him. My buddy (who is very active in this forum) looped me in ( I won’t out him because you’ll probably treat him like a Swoop pilot - I mean, a WS pilot is friends with a noted WS pilot hater...it’s the stuff of nightmares right?).

Although, I do appreciate the sentiment that ya’ll have me on a hate list. Warms the cockles of my heart.

All kidding aside...(who kidding?!) this is some $hitty times - union or no union. Careers are in the gutter or at a complete stop. Not good for anyone (even you jerk pilots).

Wash your hands

(And if I could post an animated gif I would )
Sonic,
I'm honestly curious your thoughts (and your office colleagues) on this whole 3333 permanent layoffs. The way I see it, this has little to do with Covid as WJ could have just kept these employees on layoff until recovery. To paraphrase Ed/Mark about the CSA's- they're just too expensive compared to contractors. Of course they want existing CSA's in those roles. Who wouldn't want to have employees with the skills demanding $20-$30/hr working at a job for $15-$20/hr, that they don't need to train. It's disingenuous for them to suggest that they want these employees in these roles to help them out.

I have a good job, and if WJ wants to come after me, well, I have a union to fight for me. But I always judge people based on how they treat the powerless; and in this case WJ management's actions are unforgivable. The very people who resisted unionization, took LOA's to help out- and now, this is how they're repaid.

I was once, like you, fervently anti-union. But as WJ started going after the CSA's, I knew that there was a change in philosophy and we required a union. The events seem to just strengthen my support for unionization.

Your thoughts?
You can't layoff people indefinitely unless the CBA says otherwise as per the CLC. The CLC says you can do a temporary layoff for up to 3 months with the option to extend it another 3 months. after that it must be a permanent layoff and then severance must be paid out as per the CLC. I'm guessing WJ will permanently lay off more in another 3 months when they can't extend anyone on a temporary layoff any longer.

Why didn't they permanently lay off people to start???? Market volatility and then they would have had to pay severance at at time when they are short on cash. Why did they permanently layoff some right now instead of extending their temporary layoff? Pay out some severance now and some later instead of a very large lump sum 3 months from now. Unless there was a sharp travel recovery top management knew these people weren't going to be back to work any time soon. They just followed the CLC and used the options available.

Once again a CA/CBA can override the CLC in several of these areas but not all.
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Bede
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Re: Will Westjet survive?

Post by Bede »

bobcaygeon wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:32 pm

You can't layoff people indefinitely unless the CBA says otherwise as per the CLC. The CLC says you can do a temporary layoff for up to 3 months with the option to extend it another 3 months. after that it must be a permanent layoff and then severance must be paid out as per the CLC. I'm guessing WJ will permanently lay off more in another 3 months when they can't extend anyone on a temporary layoff any longer.

Why didn't they permanently lay off people to start???? Market volatility and then they would have had to pay severance at at time when they are short on cash. Why did they permanently layoff some right now instead of extending their temporary layoff? Pay out some severance now and some later instead of a very large lump sum 3 months from now. Unless there was a sharp travel recovery top management knew these people weren't going to be back to work any time soon. They just followed the CLC and used the options available.

Once again a CA/CBA can override the CLC in several of these areas but not all.
You have to pay severance only if insufficient notice is given. If an employee is owed, let's say, 12 weeks severance, giving 12 weeks notice means that they don't need to pay severance. That's how I understand it anyways, but I'm open to correction. It just makes the thing even worse- they get people to take a LOA and while on LOA they give notice of layoff. In essence, WJ is, once again, trying a workaround the spirit of the CLC. I hope these CSA's/office folks guys fight back.
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