Dumping outbase maintenance

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aerobod
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Re: Dumping outbase maintenance

#26 Post by aerobod » Tue May 26, 2015 8:21 am

Gregg has stated to management that this is purely a rumour and there is no plan to do this. If as a WestJetter you have any concerns still, I would encourage you to talk to your management, or even email Gregg if you have any doubts.
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Re: Dumping outbase maintenance

#27 Post by beaverguy » Tue May 26, 2015 9:48 am

GS..... "No plans to outsource work"
Just like there were no plans for bases. Three months later bases are announced. Sorry, no trust anymore.
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Re: Dumping outbase maintenance

#28 Post by Chuck Finley » Tue May 26, 2015 10:45 am

GO TEAM!!!!!
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Re: Dumping outbase maintenance

#29 Post by memyselfandi » Tue May 26, 2015 12:45 pm

So, Mr. Saretsky says "no plans to outsource work where it is being performed efficiently by WestJet AMEs". Well, does this mean "no one will be outsourced, just laid off" and the base will be closed (maintenance-wise), or "the work has not been performed efficiently", so it's a go for closure (maintenance-wise), or what exactly is the meaning of this statement? As has been said, we all know how he feels about outbases (as well as other personnel in YYC) and I've been around long enough to know that you can't believe everything you hear till it actually happens, but rumours are generally based on something, and it's usually at least some truth. The hope is only that the managers will go to bat for these AMEs and present their worth to the company enough to quell this continuous uprising against outbase personnel who have worked hard to contribute and make WestJet what it is. Unions are not the answer, as I've witnessed and a lot of others who have experience with them will tell you. The maintenance workforce at WestJet is very efficient already, with employees being empowered to help in any way they can (which they do, as others will attest). Adding more aircraft all the time without substantial hiring to maintain them is also adding to efficiency, not to mention having 737 people now maintaining the new Encore fleet, thereby reducing hiring for these aircraft. There always seems to be more room and money and willingness to hire more "managers of this, or managers of that", but when it comes to the hard working maintenance people in WestJet (or any of the departments) why is it always cut, cut, cut (costs, not people, SO FAR)? YES PILOT GROUP, FLIGHT ATTENDANT GROUP, HELP! WE ALL NEED TO STICK TOGETHER!
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Re: Dumping outbase maintenance

#30 Post by aerobod » Tue May 26, 2015 2:07 pm

beaverguy wrote:GS..... "No plans to outsource work"
Just like there were no plans for bases. Three months later bases are announced. Sorry, no trust anymore.
The bases vs ports discussion and research at WestJet was started before Gregg took over from Durf. Searching here on AvCanada shows a fair amount of discussion in 2009. I'm not aware that Gregg said "no bases" then reversed that decision (bearing in mind what he said and what was relayed by others may not be the same thing). I do know that the discussion about bases with crews does go back about 6 years. It was known for a long time that ports were not really sustainable beyond 100 aircraft in the winter.
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Re: Dumping outbase maintenance

#31 Post by memyselfandi » Tue May 26, 2015 2:44 pm

So Mr. Saretsky says "no plans to outsource work being performed efficiently by WestJet AMEs". This can be broken down to exactly what he doesn't say. This doesn't say that the work won't be outsourced because no work will be done at all at the outbases (which means they CAN still be closed, not outsourced), and he does not specify whether or not he thinks that the work is being performed efficiently by WestJet AMEs (which means they CAN still be closed due to "inefficiency"). It is well known how he and many others in YYC think of outbases. Yes the AMEs definitely could use assistance from the WJPA, and the FAs and any other group in the company for that matter. All need to stick together for sure. The only hope at this point is that the maintenance managers are going to bat for their outbase employees that have contributed to WestJet's success and efficiencies for many years with their hard work and dedication to their jobs and the company, as they have done in the past. With more aircraft coming online, 737 mechs looking after Encore aircraft as well, being tasked with more of a workload and the aircraft aging, the WestJet AMEs have no choice but to be more efficient, which they have.
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Re: Dumping outbase maintenance

#32 Post by True North » Tue May 26, 2015 7:27 pm

beaverguy wrote:GS..... "No plans to outsource work"
Just like there were no plans for bases. Three months later bases are announced. Sorry, no trust anymore.
I don't even work for WestJet but I heard about bases from my friends there at least a year before they happened so I don't know who you were talking to.
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Re: Dumping outbase maintenance

#33 Post by Triwing » Tue May 26, 2015 9:31 pm

So Mr Saretsky, since we are being all upfront and honest; is it your position that both the maintenance management team and the pact ame association have miss quoted you and somehow dreamt up and began warning about a non existent threat?
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Re: Dumping outbase maintenance

#34 Post by Outbase Guy » Tue May 26, 2015 11:58 pm

Triwing wrote:So Mr Saretsky, since we are being all upfront and honest; is it your position that both the maintenance management team and the pact ame association have miss quoted you and somehow dreamt up and began warning about a non existent threat?

I don't think that's what he said at all. What he said was that the quote that was used was not his words. He then went on to say that our business practices are constantly reviewed. I think the unanswered question is the magnitude of the "review". In Gregg's post there is enough wiggle room to allow for closure of Tier 3 bases and either risk manage or outsource what is deemed to be 'inefficient' maintenance.

At this point, I don't see where else this can go within the confines of these forums. Now we must trust in our management team to continue to justify the hard work, arduous hours, and extreme weather conditions that are all part of our daily routines and help make this airline so successful.

Personally, I agree with Gregg that business practices should be periodically reviewed for efficiencies. What leaves me scratching my head is what are the real "pros" in the base closure argument. All I can see are "cons".
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Re: Dumping outbase maintenance

#35 Post by Triwing » Wed May 27, 2015 7:01 am

Thanks outbase guy but the question was for Greg. I didn't put any words in his mouth I just asked a legitimate question that deserves an answer.
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Re: Dumping outbase maintenance

#36 Post by bearinmind » Wed May 27, 2015 7:21 am

Never Trust a CEO, Never believe what you read on AvCanada

He is 2 for 2.
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Re: Dumping outbase maintenance

#37 Post by aerobod » Wed May 27, 2015 8:36 am

memyselfandi wrote:...when it comes to the hard working maintenance people in WestJet (or any of the departments) why is it always cut, cut, cut (costs, not people, SO FAR)? YES PILOT GROUP, FLIGHT ATTENDANT GROUP, HELP! WE ALL NEED TO STICK TOGETHER!
Unfortunately it will require innovation and everyone in the company to work together to be more cost efficient (as opposed to just cutting costs). In my IT area we had to find a way this year to reduce actual dollars spent by 2%, increase service levels due to growth of the company and still pay the same amount plus merit to employees. So far we have managed to keep within the reduced budget, but it is not easy. I have polled about 100 people in both IT and in the field asking "if you could make your processes more efficient via investing in innovation, or just not doing any unnecessary work, how much do you think we could be more efficient?" The average response was around 20%.

I would encourage anyone who doesn't understand the competitive pressure that is building against WestJet to attend a town hall or the live monthly web broadcast from the EMT, you can then submit anonymous questions in real-time online, there have been some quite difficult questions for the EMT to answer over the past few months of broadcast.
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Re: Dumping outbase maintenance

#38 Post by Old fella » Wed May 27, 2015 9:04 am

WJ has been around for what - 20yrs with a good many of it's employees around the same time. So just another airline coping with the current situation, having different mgt styles/outlook as it plots a future course while at the same time, members of the employee faternity see things in a different light as they have been around as long as said airline. Isn't this always the airline story!
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Re: Dumping outbase maintenance

#39 Post by kaput » Thu May 28, 2015 3:05 am

Old fella wrote:WJ has been around for what - 20yrs with a good many of it's employees around the same time. So just another airline coping with the current situation, having different mgt styles/outlook as it plots a future course while at the same time, members of the employee faternity see things in a different light as they have been around as long as said airline. Isn't this always the airline story!
I wouldn't call it "always the airline story."

Maybe some of the folks in this thread have never worked in any other industry. Maybe they have been sheltered all their lives. I don't think anyone in any industry can be guaranteed a job for 20 or 30 years, except for some government job.

Come on now. Business HAS to be about changing to become more competitive. Sometimes business' change proactively and sometimes they are forced to change. My dad was an electronics components salesman until I was about 10. Then he got laid off and was forced to find another job, and times were tough at our house for a while. People in forestry jobs have been laid off. People in pulp and paper have been laid off. People mining have been laid off. People in manufacturing have been laid off. People in food processing have been laid off. Road workers have been laid off. Construction workers have been laid off. In every job you can think of, people have been laid off.

Does anyone remember Aveos? How long ago was that.. maybe 3 years ago? I think I remember reading that 3000 people were laid off. I'm not saying that I think that's ok. I hate to think about how all those people had their lives turned upside down. It is very upsetting.

But how do you think they got to that point? Do you think that it just happened during an afternoon while some dick head managers were golfing? Or maybe do you think that there were some other factors involved? As I said before, businesses HAVE to change to stay competitive. It's simply a fact. Do you want it to happen now or later?

Of course after saying all of this I do believe that you guys are a bunch of tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorists. You've flown off the handle over a couple of stupid rumors. Do you really think WestJet would abandon you? And if they did close bases, I think they would be going above and beyond to accommodate you somewhere else. So you might be asked to move. Is that the worst fucking thing that's happened to anyone? What about entire towns and cities that have been shut down for financial reasons? Do you think they have some stupid forum to complain on? BUSINESS IS ALL ABOUT CHANGE.
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Re: Dumping outbase maintenance

#40 Post by Old fella » Thu May 28, 2015 7:36 am

Kaput.
Going into my 65th year, there isn't much I haven't seen or heard of/about- believe me on that. IMHO what is being posted here concerning WJ is the natural progression of an airline , most if not all understand this. That was my point.
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Re: Dumping outbase maintenance

#41 Post by mrayyc » Thu May 28, 2015 8:40 am

jetsetfly wrote:You should have a talk with PACT AMEA and get them involved,hopefully its not a true rumour as outbase Maintenance is a backbone of the Tech Ops world.
"back bone" thats a pretty bold statement. I feel we all need to stick together it's hard to see the other side sometimes.
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Re: Dumping outbase maintenance

#42 Post by Outbase Guy » Fri May 29, 2015 7:47 am

mrayyc wrote:
jetsetfly wrote:You should have a talk with PACT AMEA and get them involved,hopefully its not a true rumour as outbase Maintenance is a backbone of the Tech Ops world.
"back bone" thats a pretty bold statement. I feel we all need to stick together it's hard to see the other side sometimes.

Agreed. While I believe that outbase maintenance is an important part of the TechOps machine, we're not the backbone.
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Re: Dumping outbase maintenance

#43 Post by kaput » Fri May 29, 2015 10:53 pm

Old fella wrote:Kaput.
Going into my 65th year, there isn't much I haven't seen or heard of/about- believe me on that. IMHO what is being posted here concerning WJ is the natural progression of an airline , most if not all understand this. That was my point.
Yeah sorry about that... I actually agree with everything you said.

I guess I was just trying to say that any business needs to change to be more efficient, not just airlines. But that's obvious. I'm a dummy.
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Re: Dumping outbase maintenance

#44 Post by johnkruk » Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:59 am

Its just business, Westjet is changing ! The introduction of a new airline thats gonna take over mainline work, they have to look at the numbers of doing maint in outbases where the mainline fleet is decreasing! and where Encore looks like its going to be risk managed in most cases! To single someone out "MK" is nonsense ! you think a lower level manager is making these kinds of decisions? its bean counters ! they come up with numbers and present it to execs and they make the decisions and lower level managers have to feed to there employees, not a fun job !!!
I wonder if there was a re-vote on this airline , knowing what the employees know now, and how little we were told when we did vote on it, what do you think the results would be? Oh, to just have another AC type added to the fleet instead of all these walls between employees , frozen salaries , lay-offs / re positioning people, guess the bean counters said it was better this way cause you can pay people 2 dollars less an hour!
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Re: Dumping outbase maintenance

#45 Post by Triwing » Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:03 am

Seems open and honest time is over

Two completely differently stories. Pretty obvious that someone is lying. Simple logic tells me that Upper management has a lot more reasons to lie than mike and the mom team has

Guess we'll see who the liers are as time moves forward
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Re: Dumping outbase maintenance

#46 Post by kaput » Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:37 pm

Triwing wrote:Seems open and honest time is over

Two completely differently stories. Pretty obvious that someone is lying. Simple logic tells me that Upper management has a lot more reasons to lie than mike and the mom team has

Guess we'll see who the liers are as time moves forward
Those are some pretty strong words and accusations. I don't think you're being very nice.

Nobody wants people to be uprooted or worse, laid off. But what if it doesn't make business sense to keep some of the outbases open? Are you saying we should just keep them open forever even though they could be essentially a drag on the rest of the company? Isn't that kind of selfish?
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Re: Dumping outbase maintenance

#47 Post by Troubleshot » Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:55 am

This sounds like a communication issue. You have upper management stating one thing and lower level management saying another. My guess is there has definitely been some discussions regarding outbases....but to what degree?

I think it is a smart move to review any part a business from time to time. Perhaps upper management has put it to lower level management to provide them with a solid business case for maintaining these maintenance stations (hence the rumors). Factors such as costs, OTP, safety, customer satisfaction all play a role. You weigh all of the good things AME's provide at out-stations vs. the costs of maintaining the base (Vehicles, parts, salaries, office space, etc...) and somehow spit out a value.

Say (as an example) the YHZ guys averted several AOG's last year what was the value of that? Or they fixed a problem on a transit and the crew didn't duty out? I'm sure these sort of thing are discussed.

And other thing, if the lower level maintenance managers present a really good business case they will just bring new light on how important these guys are to the overall product.
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Re: Dumping outbase maintenance

#48 Post by RustyDeuce » Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:45 pm

johnkruk wrote:Its just business, Westjet is changing ! The introduction of a new airline thats gonna take over mainline work, they have to look at the numbers of doing maint in outbases where the mainline fleet is decreasing! and where Encore looks like its going to be risk managed in most cases! To single someone out "MK" is nonsense ! you think a lower level manager is making these kinds of decisions? its bean counters ! they come up with numbers and present it to execs and they make the decisions and lower level managers have to feed to there employees, not a fun job !!!
I wonder if there was a re-vote on this airline , knowing what the employees know now, and how little we were told when we did vote on it, what do you think the results would be? Oh, to just have another AC type added to the fleet instead of all these walls between employees , frozen salaries , lay-offs / re positioning people, guess the bean counters said it was better this way cause you can pay people 2 dollars less an hour!
I'd still vote yes. Just a few weeks ago we were all reaping the financial rewards.
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Re: Dumping outbase maintenance

#49 Post by Triwing » Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:00 pm

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Re: Dumping outbase maintenance

#50 Post by Red1 » Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:58 pm

tin foil hats, now that's funny. :lol:
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