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 Post subject: Saretsky's legacy
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:30 pm 
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Saretsky's legacy is going to be that he was a great numbers guy who brought a few years of record profits but ultimately destroyed the culture and brought in unions. Him and Ferio just can't keep themselves from choking the goose that lays the golden eggs


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 Post subject: Re: Saretsky's legacy
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:54 pm 
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Last edited by Johnny#5 on Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Saretsky's legacy
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:36 am 
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I suspect history will show that the change in the "WestJet Culture" was simply caused by the never ending expansion, the large increase in employees and of course the dreaded "me want generation". :D


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 Post subject: Re: Saretsky's legacy
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:56 am 
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I think longtimer is right. This is a lot bigger than GS. It's a big company that's just turned 18. like any 18 year old its going through a few changes.

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 Post subject: Re: Saretsky's legacy
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:27 am 
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Bringing in a union is not going to drastically change the culture at WJ. That's just fear mongering.

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 Post subject: Re: Saretsky's legacy
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:03 pm 
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it will defiantly change the culture if the one list goes away! who knows


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 Post subject: Re: Saretsky's legacy
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:46 pm 
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The culture change has already taken place, the current Union drives are a response to that. When I started 8 years ago the trust was such that almost no one in this company felt certification was needed to protect their interests. It wasn't even a subject of conversation


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 Post subject: Re: Saretsky's legacy
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:17 pm 
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Longtimer wrote:
I suspect history will show that the change in the "WestJet Culture" was simply caused by the never ending expansion, the large increase in employees and of course the dreaded "me want generation". :D


No offence intended and all due respect to you Longtimer. I know that it probably wasn't your decisions that made it happen but take a look at the national debt your generation has left and continues to rack up for your kids and grandkids to pay and tell us again who the dreaded "me want generation" is..



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 Post subject: Re: Saretsky's legacy
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:50 am 
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Longtimer wrote:
I suspect history will show that the change in the "WestJet Culture" was simply caused by the never ending expansion, the large increase in employees and of course the dreaded "me want generation". :D


Statistics prove otherwise, the "me want generation", Mellennials I assume you're referring to, have the lowest union membership levels of any generation in North America since WW2. Generation X'ers are the next lowest.

However, I agree that the union push is likely due to the expansion and the addition of multiple aircraft types, a feeder carrier, and bases. At a certain size unions become a near requirement, especially given the complexity of pilot agreements. It's worth noting that it was the executives direction to add these complexities, not the pilots.



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 Post subject: Re: Saretsky's legacy
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:26 pm 
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glad you said it...
the older generation so easily blame the young.
Not to mention the cost of living these days...

Triwing wrote:
Longtimer wrote:
I suspect history will show that the change in the "WestJet Culture" was simply caused by the never ending expansion, the large increase in employees and of course the dreaded "me want generation". :D


No offence intended and all due respect to you Longtimer. I know that it probably wasn't your decisions that made it happen but take a look at the national debt your generation has left and continues to rack up for your kids and grandkids to pay and tell us again who the dreaded "me want generation" is..



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 Post subject: Re: Saretsky's legacy
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:06 am 
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Carentee


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 Post subject: Re: Saretsky's legacy
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:29 pm 
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Triwing wrote:
The culture change has already taken place, the current Union drives are a response to that. When I started 8 years ago the trust was such that almost no one in this company felt certification was needed to protect their interests. It wasn't even a subject of conversation


The culture change you speak of is the result of an aging workforce. One that feels more and more entitled. I've watched the Flight Attendants get away with everything because the company was too scared to take a hard stance on things. That pisses people off, especially when it happens time and time again. Every single person in this company knows that. Every. Single. One.

The union drives are the result of trust or more specifically lack of trust. That's disappointing. I feel like Ferio moving to Encore had a larger negative impact on culture than most are willing to admit. I'll reserve comment for his (now departing) replacement. The fact half of the EVP's have turned over in the last year concerns me. No structure or long term vision. Gregg's taken the blunt of the criticism because he's had to step in to be "the guy" - to replace those that have left.

I think the pilots will be fine - union or not. The FA's, on the other hand, concern me. They lack vision or direction. They lack structure and professionalism.



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 Post subject: Re: Saretsky's legacy
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 5:00 pm 
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pacman007 wrote:
it will defiantly change the culture if the one list goes away! who knows


There are few guarantees in life. I think this is one of them. As much as the WJPA keeps telling me that we'll get booted off of the one list, I don't think it'll happen. Ever.

Before you write me off as crazy, hear me out.

The WPPA guys want to stop at nothing short of Encore being rolled into WS. No separate company & OC. Their feeling is that if it's ok for the wide body guys, it should be fine for Encore too. One list with different pay scales, but ultimately one company.

Now what do you think would happen to recruiting at Encore if the one list disappeared? It would drop right back down to 1-2 resumes per week. That is what we were getting prior to one list and direct entry captains. We no longer do DEC's. That makes One list pretty much the key thing driving people to apply at Encore. Take it away and see what happens when people are told they'll be working 18-20 days for $36K/year.



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 Post subject: Re: Saretsky's legacy
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 8:04 pm 
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You can bet on one thing. Nobody ever wins in arbitration. Cuz that's where things like this end up. Been there. Done that.
Btw your glorified math of 1 or 2 resumes a week wouldn't have filled the ground schools of 10 and 12 pilots every month and sometimes every 3 weeks. Lol



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 Post subject: Re: Saretsky's legacy
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 8:16 pm 
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Triwing wrote:
Saretsky's legacy is going to be that he was a great numbers guy who brought a few years of record profits but ultimately destroyed the culture and brought in unions. Him and Ferio just can't keep themselves from choking the goose that lays the golden eggs

Gregg is the face of the company, but he executes the mandate given to him by the BOD. Don't kid yourself... Clive still wears the hat of the good guy, but his hands have been on every major decision WS has made.



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 Post subject: Re: Saretsky's legacy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:01 am 
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His job is to push things as much as possible to raise the stock price as much as possible , what does he care , worse comes to worse , a union gets in the execs get to blame him , fire him and he gets a 10 mill handshake , would you really care if that's what waited for you if you &(":ed your job up ?


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 Post subject: Re: Saretsky's legacy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:22 pm 
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Squid wrote:
You can bet on one thing. Nobody ever wins in arbitration. Cuz that's where things like this end up. Been there. Done that.
Btw your glorified math of 1 or 2 resumes a week wouldn't have filled the ground schools of 10 and 12 pilots every month and sometimes every 3 weeks. Lol


Hey Squid. His glorified math was probably not very far off not too long ago. WJ was getting very close to having to park the 400s because they had problems filling the pilot seats due to lack of interest.



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 Post subject: Re: Saretsky's legacy
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:26 pm 
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BE20 Driver wrote:
pacman007 wrote:

The WPPA guys want to stop at nothing short of Encore being rolled into WS. No separate company & OC. Their feeling is that if it's ok for the wide body guys, it should be fine for Encore too. One list with different pay scales, but ultimately one company.

.


How do you feel about this now given the news?



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 Post subject: Re: Saretsky's legacy
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:50 pm 
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What news is this? the WJPA's fear mongering email?


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 Post subject: Re: Saretsky's legacy
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:50 pm 
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Curious too as for what this news is?


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 Post subject: Re: Saretsky's legacy
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:29 pm 
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BE20 Driver wrote:
What news is this? the WJPA's fear mongering email?


It's always fear mongering right?

On June 24th the WPPA modified their certification application to remove Encore pilots from their application.

That's the truth.


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 Post subject: Re: Saretsky's legacy
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:42 pm 
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Benwa wrote:
BE20 Driver wrote:
What news is this? the WJPA's fear mongering email?


It's always fear mongering right?

On June 24th the WPPA modified their certification application to remove Encore pilots from their application.

That's the truth.


Ouch. So does that mean what I think it means? No flow and no one list any more? Or am I reading that wrong.



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 Post subject: Re: Saretsky's legacy
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:26 pm 
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I read their email. I never said it wasn't true. To me it reads like a bunch of nitpicky two year olds who are just saying "Mom! Kevin started a fight! See, I told ya, it wasn't me!" I get it though. They represent the company and it's their job to defend the current system.

Fact is we can't be a part of this union drive because we are a separate company with a separate OC on effectively a B-scale. Management structured it this way and has created an us and them. The fact that we are treated like separate and lesser employees is what is driving some of the union support in the first place. 96% of WS pilots don't like it and support one list. The WPPA supports one list. Management supports one list. Everyone supports it and it is one of the only thing driving people to apply at Encore.

You eff with our spots on that list and no one will apply to Encore and some of the ones that are here will move on to greener pastures. If that happens, you'll see deliveries pushed back and airplanes parked.

Funny though, the WJPA wants to see Encore included in the vote but they want to keep us as separate companies under the current conditions. Seems a little (lot) hypocritical to me. I'm pretty sure they fought hard to keep the 767 guys from loosing any of their benefits.

If the WJPA was serious about representing all of the employees, not just the jet pilots, they would be having discussions with management about changing the structure of Encore to create one company, no separate OC. Just like the wide body pilots. You do this and you'll cut the WPPA guys off at the knees.



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 Post subject: Re: Saretsky's legacy
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:23 pm 
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Good post, very accurate.


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 Post subject: Re: Saretsky's legacy
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:48 pm 
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I'm really not sure who to believe - I personally don't think a labour/trade union is inevitable given the size of any company (btw I've worked for an ALPA carrier, seen the good/bad/ugly). Respect, understanding, trust etc. need to be maintained obviously.

It's all an indication of divided interests, ultimately self-serving, shrouded in the cloak of inclusiveness.

Damnit, can't we all just get along :axe:


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