Union Vote 22 July - 05 Aug

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Jimmy_Hoffa
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Union Vote 22 July - 05 Aug

#1 Post by Jimmy_Hoffa » Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:24 pm

WestJet challenged vote

According to documents obtained by CBC News, WestJet challenged the validity of the pilots' vote.

In submissions to the Canada Industrial Relations Board, the airline questioned, among other things, whether pilots for its regional service, WestJet Encore, would be included in the pilots' vote and challenged whether the union cards already signed by pilots were valid.

The CIRB ruled that the ballot could go ahead, with 1,261 of WestJet's pilots voting on whether to certify.

The vote begins on July 22 and lasts until Aug. 5, with the results being released soon after voting ends.

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/business/westj ... -1.3128631
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Re: Union Vote 22 July - 05 Aug

#2 Post by flyer 1492 » Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:01 pm

Ah, it reminds me of the ALPA drive at Time Air so many years ago. The doom and gloom coming from the senior pilots about how the company would fold. Funny, we didn't fold but actually prospered.

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Re: Union Vote 22 July - 05 Aug

#3 Post by Squid » Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:11 pm

huh? Time air prospered? do tell!
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Re: Union Vote 22 July - 05 Aug

#4 Post by Johnny#5 » Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:26 pm

I really don't think a union is going to bring Comox(or whatever obscure location) as a port back from the dead.
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Re: Union Vote 22 July - 05 Aug

#5 Post by fish4life » Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:41 pm

The thing I find interesting is the company is challenging that Encore should have been part of the vote. If that were the case then it's one company not 2 separate ones.
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Re: Union Vote 22 July - 05 Aug

#6 Post by AirMail » Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:08 pm

fish4life wrote:The thing I find interesting is the company is challenging that Encore should have been part of the vote. If that were the case then it's one company not 2 separate ones.
I do too! Didn't I read on here not long ago that a unionized WJ PSL would no longer apply to Encore? Thereby no flow through? If so, I assume that would rid the carrot Encore dangles. Pilots leave, trouble filling spots with current w&c. Resort to increasing w&c to keep and entice other pilots to go to Encore would mean less profit.

If I'm wrong about the PSL then disregard :)
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Re: Union Vote 22 July - 05 Aug

#7 Post by BE20 Driver » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:32 pm

fish4life wrote:The thing I find interesting is the company is challenging that Encore should have been part of the vote. If that were the case then it's one company not 2 separate ones.
This is what really bothers me about the whole thing. The WJPA keeps talking out of both sides of their mouth.

If we should be included in the vote, then we are one company. Haven't seen or heard anything about the WJPA pushing for full citizenship for Encore pilots. I'm pretty sure that the only reason they want it is because they believe there isn't the same level of support for unionization at Encore as there is at mainline, therefore making it harder to hit 50 +1.

The WPPA's stated policy on Encore is to get rid of the second company and treat us just like all of the other employees in terms of seniority, ESP, medical/dental etc.
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Re: Union Vote 22 July - 05 Aug

#8 Post by squawk » Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:51 pm

BE20 Driver wrote:
fish4life wrote:The thing I find interesting is the company is challenging that Encore should have been part of the vote. If that were the case then it's one company not 2 separate ones.
This is what really bothers me about the whole thing. The WJPA keeps talking out of both sides of their mouth.

If we should be included in the vote, then we are one company. Haven't seen or heard anything about the WJPA pushing for full citizenship for Encore pilots. I'm pretty sure that the only reason they want it is because they believe there isn't the same level of support for unionization at Encore as there is at mainline, therefore making it harder to hit 50 +1.

The WPPA's stated policy on Encore is to get rid of the second company and treat us just like all of the other employees in terms of seniority, ESP, medical/dental etc.
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Re: Union Vote 22 July - 05 Aug

#9 Post by squawk » Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:52 pm

BE20 Driver wrote:
fish4life wrote:The thing I find interesting is the company is challenging that Encore should have been part of the vote. If that were the case then it's one company not 2 separate ones.
This is what really bothers me about the whole thing. The WJPA keeps talking out of both sides of their mouth.

If we should be included in the vote, then we are one company. Haven't seen or heard anything about the WJPA pushing for full citizenship for Encore pilots. I'm pretty sure that the only reason they want it is because they believe there isn't the same level of support for unionization at Encore as there is at mainline, therefore making it harder to hit 50 +1.

The WPPA's stated policy on Encore is to get rid of the second company and treat us just like all of the other employees in terms of seniority, ESP, medical/dental etc.
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Re: Union Vote 22 July - 05 Aug

#10 Post by squawk » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:16 am

The above post is completely false. WPPA chose to exclude Encore from the vote. West jet also asked the CIRB not to have encore included. The only group advocating to have Encore included was the WJPA after the CIRB granted the WJPA intervenor status. The WJPA had encore incorporated into the mainline list after over 90 percent of mainline pilots voted in favour of it. Should the WPPA be successful that list will essentially be torn up. Meanwhile the WJPA is working hard at negotiating a new agreement for the Encore pilots. WJPA=one list. Any assertion that the WPPA has any clout as a labour union in dissolving Encore and forcing the company to be part of Westjet is an exaggeration of biblical proportions. I don't know where you would gather such information from, but i have my suspicions!
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Re: Union Vote 22 July - 05 Aug

#11 Post by St.Paddy's » Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:34 am

Hey Squawk if your so sure about that why don't you read the actual CIRB submissions from WestJet.
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Re: Union Vote 22 July - 05 Aug

#12 Post by BE20 Driver » Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:07 pm

squawk wrote:Should the WPPA be successful that list will essentially be torn up. Meanwhile the WJPA is working hard at negotiating a new agreement for the Encore pilots. WJPA=one list. Any assertion that the WPPA has any clout as a labour union in dissolving Encore and forcing the company to be part of Westjet is an exaggeration of biblical proportions. I don't know where you would gather such information from, but i have my suspicions!

Not true. Any policy in place at the time of a vote remains in place until both parties agree to amend or replace said policy. I've said before both sides adamantly want to maintain one list. Yes, there is an argument that I can't be on a WPPA list because I don't pay dues. I'm certain that the same 90% that support one list will end up removing my name and inserting a place holder or some other system that accomplishes the same thing. I am not one bit worried about this at all.

A new agreement will only include some work conditions and hopefully a cost of living increase etc. It won't have anything to do with combining the companies and getting rid of second class status for Encore. It will lift the floor but that's it.

I am not saying that the WPPA has the ability to unilaterally change the structure of WestJet/Encore. I have gathered my information by talking with several members of the WPPA directly about Encore. Their stated policy is that we are all one team and if management can handle having the wide body pilots working for the same company as the 737 operation, they should be able to accommodate Encore with 20% ESP etc. under the same company structure. If this is on the agenda of the WJPA, it is as top secret as our Air Canada buyout plan.
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Re: Union Vote 22 July - 05 Aug

#13 Post by squawk » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:57 pm

Ask any Air Ontario Pilot or a former Canadian Regional pilot about what common employer applications entail, time wise and money wise. Unsuccessful is the norm. If your think for a second that a trade union will restructure a company before it folds you are dreaming.You and I will both be retired (hopefully) before the burning cap ever reaches the stick.
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Re: Union Vote 22 July - 05 Aug

#14 Post by green bastard » Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:06 pm

Squawk, I see your also on here also spreading half truths.
It was the wjpa that pushed the encore moa on the pilots
that defined them as seperate company.
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Re: Union Vote 22 July - 05 Aug

#15 Post by ultrarnnr » Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:05 pm

Green bastard, you are doing the same. WJPA had no control over Encore being set up as a separate company, it was WestJet management that is responsible.
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Re: Union Vote 22 July - 05 Aug

#16 Post by BE20 Driver » Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:24 pm

Sadly, correcting this is not even on their radar.
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Re: Union Vote 22 July - 05 Aug

#17 Post by RustyDeuce » Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:11 pm

This whole situation is an embarrassment. The half-truths, lies, opinions, scare tactics and BS being spouted off by the pro and against is an embarrassment. If anything, pilots are consistent and one thing......
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Re: Union Vote 22 July - 05 Aug

#18 Post by squawk » Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:01 pm

green bastard wrote:Squawk, I see your also on here also spreading half truths.
It was the wjpa that pushed the encore moa on the pilots
that defined them as seperate company.
The WJPA and Pilots in general, do not have any say on how a company is structured. Find me a labour union that did. And i'll show you a company that is no longer. We did have a say on whether or not we thought a regional subsidiary of WestJet was a good idea. We all voted overwhelmingly yes. We also voted over 90 percent in favour of having Encore pilots under our list. ONE LIST. That speaks volumes of our democratic open door relationship with the management of the company we all own.
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Re: Union Vote 22 July - 05 Aug

#19 Post by squawk » Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:17 pm

BE20 Driver wrote:
squawk wrote:Should the WPPA be successful that list will essentially be torn up. Meanwhile the WJPA is working hard at negotiating a new agreement for the Encore pilots. WJPA=one list. Any assertion that the WPPA has any clout as a labour union in dissolving Encore and forcing the company to be part of Westjet is an exaggeration of biblical proportions. I don't know where you would gather such information from, but i have my suspicions!

Not true. Any policy in place at the time of a vote remains in place until both parties agree to amend or replace said policy. I've said before both sides adamantly want to maintain one list. Yes, there is an argument that I can't be on a WPPA list because I don't pay dues. I'm certain that the same 90% that support one list will end up removing my name and inserting a place holder or some other system that accomplishes the same thing. I am not one bit worried about this at all.

A new agreement will only include some work conditions and hopefully a cost of living increase etc. It won't have anything to do with combining the companies and getting rid of second class status for Encore. It will lift the floor but that's it.

I am not saying that the WPPA has the ability to unilaterally change the structure of WestJet/Encore. I have gathered my information by talking with several members of the WPPA directly about Encore. Their stated policy is that we are all one team and if management can handle having the wide body pilots working for the same company as the 737 operation, they should be able to accommodate Encore with 20% ESP etc. under the same company structure. If this is on the agenda of the WJPA, it is as top secret as our Air Canada buyout plan.
The only thing the WPPA can guarantee is they will cost you more money. The union has said that they will accomplish what they want through the same open door that the WJPA has been using over the last year and a half. The WPPA filed yet another unfair labour practice complaint before the CIRB yesterday. If this is the seemless transition they are touting than i really want to see that playbook. That open door is getting slammed shut!
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Re: Union Vote 22 July - 05 Aug

#20 Post by squawk » Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:41 pm

St.Paddy's wrote:Hey Squawk if your so sure about that why don't you read the actual CIRB submissions from WestJet.
I have read them. Have you read yesterdays submission? There will be no decision on the original complaint until next year. How long will yesterdays complaint by the PPA drag on? Very indicative of their litigious nature. But don't you worry it will be a seamless transition if they get in. Hatchetes buried. Legal debts forgiven. You can just carry on and wave at the rudderless Q400's taxing by.
Your choice. Pull that ginny out of the bottle when you need too. No sticking it back in.
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Re: Union Vote 22 July - 05 Aug

#21 Post by squawk » Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:27 pm

"If we should be included in the vote, then we are one company. Haven't seen or heard anything about the WJPA pushing for full citizenship for Encore pilots. I'm pretty sure that the only reason they want it is because they believe there isn't the same level of support for unionization at Encore as there is at mainline, therefore making it harder to hit 50 +1."

BE20 driver;

I dont believe you work for Encore. If you did, then you would be calling Brian G. one of the Encore reps on the negotiating committee to clarify your stance. I have a feeling your just a sh@t disturber with no dog in this fight.
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Re: Union Vote 22 July - 05 Aug

#22 Post by TrailerParkBoy » Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:30 am

...and let the division within one company begin!
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Re: Union Vote 22 July - 05 Aug

#23 Post by anonymity » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:49 am

In my most sarcastic tone, that was never predicted a couple years ago, when the vote was deciding the separate OC for a regional, yet unnamed airline. Who ever would have thought that history would repeat itself.
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Re: Union Vote 22 July - 05 Aug

#24 Post by green bastard » Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:49 pm

Squawk the wjpa has has conducted themselves like a corrupt political party. I in 25 years , have never
seen such unprofessional conduct from an association executive. They are rank amateurs! and an embarrassment to professional pilots everywhere.
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Re: Union Vote 22 July - 05 Aug

#25 Post by BE20 Driver » Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:09 pm

squawk wrote: BE20 driver;

I dont believe you work for Encore. If you did, then you would be calling Brian G. one of the Encore reps on the negotiating committee to clarify your stance. I have a feeling your just a sh@t disturber with no dog in this fight.
Couldn't I be both a sh@t disturber and an Encore pilot?

Yes, I have talked with the negotiating committee. Not specifically Brian but a few others. They will not tell you what specific items they are in the process of negotiating. That said, eliminating the "us and them" is not the mandate of the negotiating committee. Their mandate is work rules and conditions.

I have attended the WJPA meetings. Kudos to the current WJPA, they seem open to addressing some of the issues that lead to this vote in the first place. I didn't hear one mention of pushing for eliminating the divisive structure that we currently have. Not one. It's not mentioned in any of the documentation they handed out; it wasn't on any slides they showed. It is not on any document that can be found on westnet.
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