Encore pilots…..5 yr deal?

Discuss topics relating to Westjet.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore

Message
Author
Squid
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 260
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:35 pm
Location: Timmins

Re: Encore pilots…..5 yr deal?

#26 Post by Squid » Sat Dec 26, 2015 1:56 pm

So the way I understand it is the 80 was put in place while all the routes were being built. Now that there is some route maturity they can now more efficiently block (likely around 80). It will now too, become easier to block within the window as more and more planes and routes come on line (15 or 20 more tails is what I hear). With that, bid satisfaction levels will likely get better too. U ain’t seeing the forest for the trees rap dude
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
anonymity
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 10:49 am
Location: Home

Re: Encore pilots…..5 yr deal?

#27 Post by anonymity » Sat Dec 26, 2015 4:20 pm

So, is the forest the fact that management benefits from more productive blocks, ie; less pilots sitting around blocked under the min guarantee?
That must make the trees that the pilots are now paid 6.25% less for more productive blocking, oh wait that benefits the company also! Well at least you're paid for DH and have a commuting policy, seems like a good trade to me, pilots are so smrt(doh!)
Once AGAIN Encore pilots have managed to lower the bar for everyone else and the execs get to keep laughing at how stupid pilots really are! How in the world did they sell this to you as a good thing, the negotiating committee should be ashamed of themselves for bringing a concessionary contract after 2 years of operating, two years, sheesh!
Well there's always hope that this will drive potential experienced pilots to the other regionals or away from airlines altogether. Not likely but one can always hope
---------- ADS -----------
  

Squid
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 260
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:35 pm
Location: Timmins

Re: Encore pilots…..5 yr deal?

#28 Post by Squid » Sat Dec 26, 2015 6:13 pm

Last time I read a book being efficient is a good thing anon ;) think of how efficient has helped them before is your hint. Start with comp and go from there.
---------- ADS -----------
  

180
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 591
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:10 pm

Re: Encore pilots…..5 yr deal?

#29 Post by 180 » Sun Dec 27, 2015 8:19 am

Anyone care to share the facts of the new Encore deal?
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
anonymity
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 10:49 am
Location: Home

Re: Encore pilots…..5 yr deal?

#30 Post by anonymity » Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:26 am

Squid, I can't be bothered to look up your previous posts to see if you're a WJ or Encore pilot but from what I can tell, your last post seems to reference the beginning of WJ. The Royal Douchebags that went to work as Captain on a 737 for 55.00/hr and screwed over the rest of the industry and now you think the Encore pilots should make the same sacrifice to the airlines gods for a billion dollar corporation!
As I said already, the execs get to keep laughing about how stupid pilots really are and I haven't heard anything about stock options for the Encore group, which was how they(Royal Douchbags) justified such a pathetic wage. So you sold your souls for paid DH and some policy about commuting, brilliant. In case you're all too stupid to figure it out, now that they have to pay for DH, you'll find they magically found a way to have less of them.
I'm finding it quite difficult to refrain from using foul language to describe what I'm thinking about the Encore group, suffice to say I think you'll find a lot less friendly greetings in the airport. I know I'll be sure to let you know how I feel about you screwing us over twice in as many years!
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Mr. North
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 736
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:27 am

Re: Encore pilots…..5 yr deal?

#31 Post by Mr. North » Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:45 pm

anonymity wrote:Squid, I can't be bothered to look up your previous posts to see if you're a WJ or Encore pilot but from what I can tell, your last post seems to reference the beginning of WJ. The Royal Douchebags that went to work as Captain on a 737 for 55.00/hr and screwed over the rest of the industry and now you think the Encore pilots should make the same sacrifice to the airlines gods for a billion dollar corporation!
As I said already, the execs get to keep laughing about how stupid pilots really are and I haven't heard anything about stock options for the Encore group, which was how they(Royal Douchbags) justified such a pathetic wage. So you sold your souls for paid DH and some policy about commuting, brilliant. In case you're all too stupid to figure it out, now that they have to pay for DH, you'll find they magically found a way to have less of them.
I'm finding it quite difficult to refrain from using foul language to describe what I'm thinking about the Encore group, suffice to say I think you'll find a lot less friendly greetings in the airport. I know I'll be sure to let you know how I feel about you screwing us over twice in as many years!
I used to share your level of frustration for this industry and those slimy pilots who'd step over their own mother for a job. If one of my peers took an offer that I thought was below them or not in keeping with raising the bar, they were mud as far as I was concerned. I would rant about them being too dumb to know any better, and brooded over their failure to see the bigger picture. Well my friend, the bigger picture is that you and I don't know shit regarding the life circumstances for each one of these pilots. Getting on at the majors isn't as simple as logging a boat load of MPIC at a reputable operator and waiting for the call. It wasn't so long ago that people on here such as yourself were pillorying Jazz for being a salary wasteland and a career dead end. Now it's the only way to get on big red. The goal posts are moving, and they will continue to move with time. The best people can do is to adapt to the changes in a way that suits them best. If it's a choice of having a job and not having one, which I'm sure many experienced pilots in Alberta are currently facing, it's an easy decision. Some people have family and can't move across the country for a better opportunity, others have parents to care for, kids in school... etc. It's one thing to turn down a low paying job, but be thankful that you have the luxury to do so. Life circumstances change and I highly doubt anyone on here is about to yield a career opportunity on a matter of principle (noble as it may be) and suffer in complete anonymity while others dutifully take their place. So there's absolutely no sense in labelling a whole pilot group, many of whom are the most skilled aviators I know, when in reality you are woefully ignorant to the decisions they've had to make.

As I said I used to froth at the mouth over stuff like this but thankfully through my own experience I learned to grow out of it. My advice to you is to relax. Focus your attention on the opportunities that afford your time and forget about what everyone else is doing. The bar will be raised or lowered as economics (supply & demand) see fit. You'll be better respected if you keep the vile scrutiny to yourself and don't sweat the things you can't ever hope to control. You'll live a lot longer!
---------- ADS -----------
  

Donald
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2052
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:34 am
Location: Canada

Re: Encore pilots…..5 yr deal?

#32 Post by Donald » Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:32 pm

Mr. North wrote:If it's a choice of having a job and not having one, which I'm sure many experienced pilots in Alberta are currently facing, it's an easy decision.

Interestingly enough, this is the exact same justification many used when explaining the decision to pay for training at JetsGo (not that Encore is using PFT...yet).
---------- ADS -----------
  

Yycaviator
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:27 pm

Re: Encore pilots…..5 yr deal?

#33 Post by Yycaviator » Sun Dec 27, 2015 4:01 pm

The only way this "your company is bringing the industry down" bickering is ever going to stop is if we all remember that although we work for different companies now, we all started our ppl with the same goal and hopes of being hired by a national carrier one day.

I think pilots of all the regionals needs to come up with what they think is a fair wage and pilots from all companies refuse anything less in future agreements. Companies can't pull the industry average crap anymore then.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Legacy
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 531
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:05 pm

Re: Encore pilots…..5 yr deal?

#34 Post by Legacy » Sun Dec 27, 2015 4:05 pm

I have to laugh when I hear the "it's a new company so we have to pay it safe" type defences the company uses when it tries to weasel it's easy out of a decent wawcon. And anyone who believes that.....well......think again. If it REALLY is a new company them why Frig would you go sign up for 25 NEW and an option for another 20 NEW 20-30 million dollar aircraft. I'll tell you why, because it's NOT a new company. It's just an extension of WJ. If it was a new company they would pay it safe and buy cheap used regional aircraft. Don't be fooled
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
anonymity
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 10:49 am
Location: Home

Re: Encore pilots…..5 yr deal?

#35 Post by anonymity » Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:02 pm

Mr. North,
You make very reasoned and thoughtful points and I couldn't agree more abovt the "live longer" comment, so I will have to learn to let things go that are not likely to ever change.
I will say this though, these are pilots who already had a job that agreed to a pay cut of an already existing low pay scale. Do you think the amount of money WJ has invested thus far would have been thrown away had the pilots not agreed to the cut? if the threat of shuttering the doors was there over 6% or even 8 factoring in a raise for inflation, then maybe they should have bought some used Qs to keep the cost down.
Also, I made the choice to work a non flying job while I waited for something to come along, it eventually did, so it's really just a lame excuse to justify the desire to do anything needed to fly a shiny airplane. That may very well be why it irks me as much as it does, my wait for a decent paying job may not have been as long, three years, had it not been for them!
Take care and Happy Holidays
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
brooks
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 254
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:33 pm

Re: Encore pilots…..5 yr deal?

#36 Post by brooks » Mon Dec 28, 2015 11:25 am

Then there all the guys and gals that bad mouthed Encore and said they would never apply and that it was a shi*ty spin-off. I bet almost half of them ended up applying and getting the job. I know countless examples of pilots who wished they had applied sooner so they weren't waiting longer to move up. I guess time will tell whether or not it was a missed opportunity.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Aardvark
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 10:55 am

Re: Encore pilots…..5 yr deal?

#37 Post by Aardvark » Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:00 am

.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Last edited by Aardvark on Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

loopa
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1500
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:57 am

Re: Encore pilots…..5 yr deal?

#38 Post by loopa » Tue Dec 29, 2015 1:13 am

You can call the Encore pilot's stupid, fooled, etc - an agreement outlining their working conditions is better than no agreement where anything could be pulled away at a moments notice. It's not an amazing agreement by any stretch, but it's better than having nothing.

The other reason I see for why it passed is because no body at Encore actually sees themselves present in the next 5 years. It seems to be however that if you're a product of the WJ family, you are mended to believe in great things happening - flying a 737 in less than 5 years being one of them. So of course this agreement was ratified with 93% in favor. I'm not completely discounting naivety as a factor here.

It surely can't be motivating to see peers with equal (sometimes less) qualifications get the 737 courses based on some technicality in that they didn't apply to Encore. Yet people already on property with a DOH WJ number are part of an elongated list to flow to these jet jobs with better perks. The WJ culture I once knew involved taking care of your own, so that when new peers arrived in the company, the culture would circumvent itself. Makes you scratch your head when they are doing it backwards. Preaching that you're all in it "together" will only stagnate for so long before people start seeing the real effects of division... :idea:

With a growing 737 group behind a quickly growing pool of Q400 drivers, this division I'm speaking of will be more pronounced; especially when ratifying their new agreement. I'd like to believe in good... I'm leery of the truth though. Hopefully it sorts itself out.
---------- ADS -----------
  

mikeecho
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:31 am

Re: Encore pilots…..5 yr deal?

#39 Post by mikeecho » Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:57 pm

anonymity wrote:the execs get to keep laughing about how stupid pilots really are
If execs really wanted to know how stupid pilots are, they'd visit an airline forum. Usually the posts with the term "douchebags" in them are a good starting point.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
mantogasrsrwy
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 282
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 9:07 pm
Location: The good side of the tracks

Re: Encore pilots…..5 yr deal?

#40 Post by mantogasrsrwy » Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:31 pm

+1
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
anonymity
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 10:49 am
Location: Home

Re: Encore pilots…..5 yr deal?

#41 Post by anonymity » Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:50 pm

mikeecho, for that you get a douchenozzle, in case you're to stupid to figure it out, it's worse than being a douchbag:)
Other than the word I chose to show my disdain for them, do you have any other problem with the point I was making?
Do you support pilots undercutting the rest for their own self greed? Are you one of them and don't have thick enough skin, after all if you are, you should realize what you did was pure selfish greed and doesn't deserve respect from your peers, and I use that quite loosely.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
anonymity
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 10:49 am
Location: Home

Re: Encore pilots…..5 yr deal?

#42 Post by anonymity » Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:02 pm

mantogasrsrwy wrote:+1
How clever, guess you can't formulate your own thoughts!
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
mantogasrsrwy
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 282
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 9:07 pm
Location: The good side of the tracks

Re: Encore pilots…..5 yr deal?

#43 Post by mantogasrsrwy » Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:12 pm

What can I say, his post was spot on.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
anonymity
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 10:49 am
Location: Home

Re: Encore pilots…..5 yr deal?

#44 Post by anonymity » Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:28 pm

So , you support pilots undercutting their counterparts, feel like you need to defend them. One word of disdain should not negate the rest of the message, that's just petty and if the only thing against my point is to criticize an insult directed at a group who deserve it, that in itself shows a lack of intelligence.
Why don't you argue why you might think I'm wrong or maybe just wait for someone else to do it and add your +1
---------- ADS -----------
  

AlphaOne
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 1:16 pm

Re: Encore pilots…..5 yr deal?

#45 Post by AlphaOne » Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:15 pm

anonymity wrote:mikeecho, for that you get a douchenozzle, in case you're to stupid to figure it out

*too stupid
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
mantogasrsrwy
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 282
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 9:07 pm
Location: The good side of the tracks

Re: Encore pilots…..5 yr deal?

#46 Post by mantogasrsrwy » Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:05 am

+1
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
anonymity
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 10:49 am
Location: Home

Re: Encore pilots…..5 yr deal?

#47 Post by anonymity » Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:32 am

So, what I'm getting is both of you agree that mikeecho might be too stupid to grasp what I was saying, thanks for the support!
I guess since you can't argue against what I'm saying you need to make yourselves feel bigger by pointing out a very simple error, thank goodness I used you're instead of your, I can't imagine the embarrassment I would of felt had that happened. I suppose if I go through your previous posts, I wouldn't find any spelling or grammatical errors, would I? Nah, you're way too smart for that!
---------- ADS -----------
  

Squid
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 260
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:35 pm
Location: Timmins

Re: Encore pilots…..5 yr deal?

#48 Post by Squid » Thu Dec 31, 2015 4:57 pm

:lol: Happy new year anon. Keep working on your personal contributions to the industry. (Which if you ever care to share) let us know
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
anonymity
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 10:49 am
Location: Home

Re: Encore pilots…..5 yr deal?

#49 Post by anonymity » Fri Jan 01, 2016 3:17 pm

Hi Squid, I can honestly say I've walked the walk and have attempted at every opportunity to make the industry better, unfortunately it has usually been in vain because there is always "10 pilots who want your job that would do it" that's a quote from the president of a company I worked for. I've been "laid off" at least four times that I remember and always without cause, unless you consider refusing to break the law cause. I've also had the pleasure of being a Chief Pilot who stood up to the owners and was a true line of defence for the pilots, not a yes man by any definition.
I also worked in a completely different industry for a few years until a proper job was available, turning down several during that time that had less than desirable wages and/or conditions, including a corporate jet Captain. I wasn't willing to be on call 24/7 for 27 days a month even though I would only "work" 10-15, for the pay that was offered, I guess they found someone who would because they didn't call back with a better offer.
More recently, I've paid for a membership to the college of pilots for the last three years, nothing ventured nothing gained, I wish more of my colleagues would feel the same.
I voted to strike in order to protect the long fought wawcons, then a bunch of pilots signed up for essentially a union busting company, including some that very likely voted to strike. Then a bunch more applied to Encore, which was offering significantly less and more or less matched the US regionals and now they agreed to even less, so yes I'm pissed and I think I have the right to be!
What have you done?
Thank you and Happy New year to you as well
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
brooks
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 254
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:33 pm

Re: Encore pilots…..5 yr deal?

#50 Post by brooks » Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:22 pm

How many corporate jet captains do you that have been laid off lately? I know a few.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Post Reply

Return to “WestJet”