WestJet operating Emirates Flights? CTA decision.

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Transonic
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WestJet operating Emirates Flights? CTA decision.

#1 Post by Transonic » Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:45 pm

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet. I would be curious to see what RealityChex thinks about this strategy.

"WestJet, on behalf of itself and Emirates, has applied to the Canadian Transportation Agency (Agency) for an approval to permit Emirates to provide its scheduled international service between the United Arab Emirates and Canada by selling transportation in its own name on flights operated by WestJet between points within Canada and between Canada and the United States of America, for a period of three years or such longer period as may be authorized by the Agency."


https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/370-a-2015
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Re: WestJet operating Emirates Flights? CTA decision.

#2 Post by Airband » Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:29 pm

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Re: WestJet operating Emirates Flights? CTA decision.

#3 Post by YYCAME » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:40 am

This seems like a codesharing agreement to me, which is a good way to keep customers in your ecosystem. Maybe I'm misunderstanding it but is this controversial somehow because it is Emirates?
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Re: WestJet operating Emirates Flights? CTA decision.

#4 Post by J Roc » Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:53 pm

"Accordingly, the Agency, pursuant to paragraph 60(1)(b) of the CTA and section 8.2 of the ATR, approves the use by Emirates of aircraft with flight crew provided by WestJet, and the provision by WestJet of such aircraft and flight crew to Emirates, to permit Emirates to provide its scheduled international service on licensed routes between the United Arab Emirates and Canada by selling transportation in its own name on flights operated by WestJet between points within Canada and between Canada and the United States of America, for an indefinite period from the date of this Decision."

That's interesting...

Big things to come maybe??
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Re: WestJet operating Emirates Flights? CTA decision.

#5 Post by crazyaviator » Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:54 pm

selling transportation in its own name on flights operated by WestJet between points within Canada
Is there a reciprical agreement wherin westjet is skimming profits off Emirates flights within the gulf states

Are we kidding ourselves How is the refugee importation situation coming in UAE by the way
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Re: WestJet operating Emirates Flights? CTA decision.

#6 Post by Mr. North » Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:04 pm

Curious, I wonder if WJ will match what Emirates pays their pilots...
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Re: WestJet operating Emirates Flights? CTA decision.

#7 Post by aerobod » Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:44 pm

Nothing special to read into this agreement, it just upgrades the previous interline agreement between WestJet and Emirates to a codeshare agreement. Air Canada and Porter also have interline agreements with Emirates:
http://business.financialpost.com/news/ ... th-westjet
http://www.emirates.com/ca/english/abou ... -agreement
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Re: WestJet operating Emirates Flights? CTA decision.

#8 Post by J Roc » Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:27 pm

You're right - there's no conspiracy here. Just pointing out that this code share is allowing Westjet pilots to fly Emirate iron. At least that's how it reads...

If anything, this is great news for Westjet pilots.
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Re: WestJet operating Emirates Flights? CTA decision.

#9 Post by aerobod » Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:59 pm

J Roc wrote:You're right - there's no conspiracy here. Just pointing out that this code share is allowing Westjet pilots to fly Emirate iron. At least that's how it reads...

If anything, this is great news for Westjet pilots.
That is not the case at all, the agreement states that WestJet pilots will operate WestJet iron (operating carrier) and Emirates will put their flight number on it and sell the tickets as an Emirates flight (marketing carrier) - standard codeshare agreement.
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Re: WestJet operating Emirates Flights? CTA decision.

#10 Post by J Roc » Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:33 am

"....approves the use by Emirates of aircraft with flight crew provided by WestJet..."

Hmm. Maybe I'm reading into this too much then, but it doesn't say whos aircraft, it just says, "aircraft". Apparently this isn't common language in a code share and it could potentially lead to WJ pilots operating Emirate AC. But what do I know, I'm just a stoopid pilot... :D

Either way, we'd need way more than 4 - 767's to pull any of this off. Good news for WJ no matter how you slice it...

Cheers
Jeff
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Re: WestJet operating Emirates Flights? CTA decision.

#11 Post by aerobod » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:17 am

J Roc wrote:"....approves the use by Emirates of aircraft with flight crew provided by WestJet..."

Hmm. Maybe I'm reading into this too much then, but it doesn't say whos aircraft, it just says, "aircraft". Apparently this isn't common language in a code share and it could potentially lead to WJ pilots operating Emirate AC. But what do I know, I'm just a stoopid pilot... :D

Either way, we'd need way more than 4 - 767's to pull any of this off. Good news for WJ no matter how you slice it...

Cheers
Jeff
The statement is "aircraft with flight crew provided by WestJet" that implies WestJet provides both. No new capacity in wide bodies is required for this, as Emirates provides the capacity from DXB to and from YYZ, WestJet provides the capacity from YYZ to other airports in Canada and the US. For example YEG to DXB sold as an Emirates flight would start with WS046 from YEG to YYZ with an EK flight number associated with it as per the codeshare agreement (737-700 provided and crewed by WestJet), then continue as EK242 from YYZ to DXB (A380-800 provided and crewed by Emirates).
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Re: WestJet operating Emirates Flights? CTA decision.

#12 Post by J Roc » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:38 pm

Fantastic! Thanks for the clarification!
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Re: WestJet operating Emirates Flights? CTA decision.

#13 Post by J Roc » Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:05 pm

Hang on!! LOL...Sorry, I know it seems like I'm flogging a dead horse here, but I'm having a terrible time wrapping my head around this...

But! Isn't the code share language you're referring to - "WS046 from YEG to YYZ with an EK flight number associated with it as per the codeshare agreement (737-700 provided and crewed by WestJet), then continue as EK242 from YYZ to DXB" - covered in this portion of the agreement?

"WestJet, on behalf of itself and Emirates, has applied to the Canadian Transportation Agency (Agency) for an approval to permit Emirates to provide its scheduled international service between the United Arab Emirates and Canada by selling transportation in its own name on flights operated by WestJet between points within Canada and between Canada and the United States of America, for a period of three years or such longer period as may be authorized by the Agency."

This language...

"Accordingly, the Agency, pursuant to paragraph 60(1)(b) of the CTA and section 8.2 of the ATR, approves the use by Emirates of aircraft with flight crew provided by WestJet, and the provision by WestJet of such aircraft and flight crew to Emirates, to permit Emirates to provide its scheduled international service on licensed routes between the United Arab Emirates and Canada by selling transportation in its own name on flights operated by WestJet between points within Canada and between Canada and the United States of America, for an indefinite period from the date of this Decision."

This reads as if Westjet could operate Emirates aircraft to points between UAE and Canada. No?
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Re: WestJet operating Emirates Flights? CTA decision.

#14 Post by aerobod » Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:17 pm

J Roc wrote:Hang on!! LOL...Sorry, I know it seems like I'm flogging a dead horse here, but I'm having a terrible time wrapping my head around this...

But! Isn't the code share language you're referring to - "WS046 from YEG to YYZ with an EK flight number associated with it as per the codeshare agreement (737-700 provided and crewed by WestJet), then continue as EK242 from YYZ to DXB" - covered in this portion of the agreement?

"WestJet, on behalf of itself and Emirates, has applied to the Canadian Transportation Agency (Agency) for an approval to permit Emirates to provide its scheduled international service between the United Arab Emirates and Canada by selling transportation in its own name on flights operated by WestJet between points within Canada and between Canada and the United States of America, for a period of three years or such longer period as may be authorized by the Agency."

This language...

"Accordingly, the Agency, pursuant to paragraph 60(1)(b) of the CTA and section 8.2 of the ATR, approves the use by Emirates of aircraft with flight crew provided by WestJet, and the provision by WestJet of such aircraft and flight crew to Emirates, to permit Emirates to provide its scheduled international service on licensed routes between the United Arab Emirates and Canada by selling transportation in its own name on flights operated by WestJet between points within Canada and between Canada and the United States of America, for an indefinite period from the date of this Decision."

This reads as if Westjet could operate Emirates aircraft to points between UAE and Canada. No?
"...by selling transportation in its own name on flights operated by WestJet between points within Canada and between Canada and the United States of America..." is the crux of what is allowed. Emirates can extend it's offering by using WestJet to fly legs that originate in Canada to other points in Canada or the US.

Here is a link to other codeshare agreements using similar language (searched on "transportation in its own name on flights operated by"):
https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/decisions ... e=advanced
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Re: WestJet operating Emirates Flights? CTA decision.

#15 Post by J Roc » Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:27 pm

I appreciate the response! Thanks.
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Re: WestJet operating Emirates Flights? CTA decision.

#16 Post by rxl » Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:44 am

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