Two union drives

[FenceSitter]

Wow. What a difference a year makes. Just over a year ago was quite a quiet time for unions at WJ, now there are two drives running at full steam.
Let's talk ALPA first. The last vote was close, very close. Ultimately the WPPA was turned down in favor of maintaining the status-quo. My opinion is that many pilots were willing to use the situation as leverage to ensure that proper changes, as promised, were made. It's also my opinion that the fight by WJ to kill the drive or at least ensure that the vote was a 'no' was very short-sighted and had no true impetus to implement the proper changes as promised by the WJPA and others. Empty promises to get their desired result. The problem with that strategy is that the desire for change still existed. That desire was never addressed so it festered and became what it is today.
When the time for the next vote comes, and I hope that is within weeks and not months, the company sewered itself by issuing those empty promises and not acting on a single one of them. In the interim there has been the allegations of sexual assault, a further degradation of the scheduling activities, no improvement on the logistical side of company things, smaller PS checks, and so on and so forth... the list goes on. What has been done to improve the pilots' situation while all of these negative circumstances have arisen? Nothing. 50%+65 pilots gave the status-quo another shot and the company/WJPA (yes, they are one in the same IMO) failed. It's almost as if the company is just biding time until they get in... but if that's the case, then why the fight and why the lies?
Now for our flight attendant friends. The WPFAA has been running their drive for almost 3 years now. They have gone through some very challenging spots of their own. Some of their named people have been fired, disciplined, had false whistle blower reports filed against them, have had their reputations besmirched, have lost their homes and encountered marital/familial problems... all as a result of trying to unionize. To be fair, some of these are to be expected, they can happen to anyone... but these named folks truly seem to be targeted. Their group has it pretty bad and it is only getting worse. It would seem that the company is getting into that 'best bargaining position' phase of their 'status quo ante procul totus sumptus' initiative. Their 'legally binding' agreement (as binding as the pilot agreement) has seen 58 changes since it's acceptance via survey. material changes are being made under the guise of MOAs and LOUs. Anyone who has any experience with those two forms of addendum knows that they are a temporary solution. These seem to be written with the intent to have them last as long as the agreement itself with the intent to be incorporated at the first opportunity. That does not jive with the true spirit and intent of genuine LOUs and MOAs. Inflight simply doesn't trust anymore. That's a shame.
What to do? As anyone who reads this can likely ascertain, I am a supporter of independent representation. By independent I mean independent of corporate manipulation or control. I strongly believe that regardless of the HR challenges that have been created by WJ in both their relationships with and control of the pilots and FAs (I will not refer to FAs as CCMs ever) that the pilots and FAs are still a loyal and dedicated group that truly want the company to succeed as their success is tied to that of the company. That has not changed. The people are still the people. What has changed is that both departments have matured beyond the ability of the company to actually do what truly is best for the employees as people. It can be balanced, but it will be adversarial at times. That's ok. No, we can't all just get along, all of the time. Sometimes disagreements happen and a compromise needs to be made. Both ALPA and the WPFAA will be able to navigate to the compromise and it's time that both departments have that steward to get them there.

[BingBong]

Very well written!!

[jjj]

FenceSitter,

Assuming you are a WS pilot - airing out your laundry on here is in poor taste. We have two online forums to discuss these matters.

BingBong,

If you think that was well written then you need to finish grade 9 and prepare yourself because grade 10 is way harder.


JJJ

[Fanblade]

FenceSitter,

Assuming you are a WS pilot - airing out your laundry on here is in poor taste. We have two online forums to discuss these matters.

BingBong,

If you think that was well written then you need to finish grade 9 and prepare yourself because grade 10 is way harder.


JJJ

JJJ,

Are those forums anonymous? Your suggestion sounds like a great way to make oneself a target.

As for the post. It was well written. You might have issue with some of the grammar, but the message was clear and concise.

Belittling people who don't hold your views, or won't do as you say?

Bullying.

[FenceSitter]

FenceSitter,

Assuming you are a WS pilot - airing out your laundry on here is in poor taste. We have two online forums to discuss these matters.

BingBong,

If you think that was well written then you need to finish grade 9 and prepare yourself because grade 10 is way harder.


JJJ

Wow. Freedom of speech attempting to be stiffled here too? As long as everything is within the forum guidelines, why can I not exercise my charter granted right here? The WJ forums are traps. I highly advise against posting one's true thoughts and feelings on there. Might find yourself with some unexpected time off or being intercepted in the food court for a disciplinary meeting you don't deserve. If you consider the truth to be "dirty laundry", are you insinuating that real life at WJ is dirty? If so.... Get me some ALPA and WPFAA brand tide to clean it up. The alternative leaves the dirt PACT on.

[jjj]

FenceSitter/FanBlade,

Two internal forums are not anonymous and one is. Either is a more appropriate place than this.

The message in question BTW is befuddled and far from concise.

I do not belittle anyone's opinion - I only ask that they choose a more appropriate venue.

Furthermore about the post in question - I made no remarks or judgments about the validity or not of any arguments or opinions. Please don't infer what my opinion is in these matters - you will most certainly get it wrong.

JJJ

[Fanblade]

FenceSitter/FanBlade,

I do not belittle anyone's opinion

JJJ

FenceSitter,

Assuming you are a WS pilot - airing out your laundry on here is in poor taste. We have two online forums to discuss these matters.

BingBong,

If you think that was well written then you need to finish grade 9 and prepare yourself because grade 10 is way harder.


JJJ

You see nothing belittling in this comment?

[jjj]

FanBlade - that comment is meant to be funny.

Your original objection was that I was "Belittling people who don't hold your views, or won't do as you say?" - and that point as answered already.

JJJ

[Fanblade]

Really now.

Condescending/disparaging humour at someone else's expense is funny? In schools these days they call that bullying.

You insinuated that the two of them weren't that bright.

It wasn't funny. It was an attempt to denigrate the author of a post and another who agreed with it.

[Bede]

As long as everything is within the forum guidelines, why can I not exercise my charter granted right here? The WJ forums are traps.

Umm, because your Charter rights don't apply here, or at work - they apply solely in your relationship between you and the government.

Other than that, I agree with your original post. I agree with jjj that there are better fora to discuss these issues though.

[complexintentions]

Union drives at one of Canada's (whopping total of two) major airlines is absolutely a matter of public interest, especially to those in the industry. Which I would presume, is the major target audience of AvCanada?

I did not see any personal attacks or specific union strategy details. Anything else is fair game, to my mind. I would be very careful posting in a company-monitored forum.

But let's not get carried away with the "anti-bullying" meme. jjj does sound a bit of a condescending dick, but thankfully, that is still his right. Perhaps if more people learned the art of the clever comeback, they wouldn't need to go all SJW right off the bat.

[rxl]

_________________
"What doesn't kill you...

...disappoints me."

???

[Yycjetdriver]

FenceSitter,

Assuming you are a WS pilot - airing out your laundry on here is in poor taste. We have two online forums to discuss these matters.

BingBong,

If you think that was well written then you need to finish grade 9 and prepare yourself because grade 10 is way harder.


JJJ

The kook-aid runs thick in this one, almost makes me sick just thinking about it. I'm always surprised when fellow pilots surffering from poor conditions side with the management putting them there. But then again the big wigs run the company knowing there's people like you out there.

[Braaaap]

Well written FenceSitter. Looks like I'm adding Westjet to the list of parasitic corporations that siphon huge profits on the backs of their hardworking employees.

As for the 10th grade. Don't sweat it. I'm taking the "how to get screwed by your employer by posting on their anonymous forum 101" course. It's a breeze.

[KAG]

I'll say I've been pretty open and blunt about my thoughts and feelings on our forums using my real name and (knock on wood) no issues yet. Agreed, maybe keeping our dirty laundry in our "laundry room" is better then on here?

[jjj]

Union drives at one of Canada's (whopping total of two) major airlines is absolutely a matter of public interest, especially to those in the industry. Which I would presume, is the major target audience of AvCanada?

I did not see any personal attacks or specific union strategy details. Anything else is fair game, to my mind. I would be very careful posting in a company-monitored forum.

But let's not get carried away with the "anti-bullying" meme. jjj does sound a bit of a condescending dick, but thankfully, that is still his right. Perhaps if more people learned the art of the clever comeback, they wouldn't need to go all SJW right off the bat.

I thought that was a well written post.

JJJ

[Fanblade]

But let's not get carried away with the "anti-bullying" meme. jjj does sound a bit of a condescending dick, but thankfully, that is still his right. Perhaps if more people learned the art of the clever comeback, they wouldn't need to go all SJW right off the bat.

Ah yes. The use of an extreme label to discredit the person rather than the message. Do you see any irony in your statement?

[Fanblade]

Union drives at one of Canada's (whopping total of two) major airlines is absolutely a matter of public interest, especially to those in the industry. Which I would presume, is the major target audience of AvCanada?

I did not see any personal attacks or specific union strategy details. Anything else is fair game, to my mind. I would be very careful posting in a company-monitored forum.

But let's not get carried away with the "anti-bullying" meme. jjj does sound a bit of a condescending dick, but thankfully, that is still his right. Perhaps if more people learned the art of the clever comeback, they wouldn't need to go all SJW right off the bat.

I thought that was a well written post.

JJJ

Of course you do.

[Bond123]

Soooo what happens to the hundreds of Encore pilots if Westjet does decide to unionize? Heard from friends there that it wouldn't be a good outcome for them!?

[avbird]

and what would that bad outcome be?