WestJet To Launch ULCC

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DanJ
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WestJet To Launch ULCC

#1 Post by DanJ » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:19 am

WestJet announces intent to launch ultra-low-cost carrier

CALGARY, April 20, 2017 /CNW/ - WestJet today announced its intention to launch a new, ultra-low-cost carrier (ULCC) in Canada subject to agreement with its pilots and any required regulatory approvals. Service is expected to start in late 2017 with an initial fleet of 10 high-density Boeing 737-800s designed by the airline that first brought low-cost air travel to Canada in 1996. The ULCC will provide Canadians with no-frills, lower-cost travel options.

"We have built WestJet from its low-cost, regional roots into a renowned, international airline with service to 21 countries and today it's all about disrupting at the price-sensitive end of the market," said Clive Beddoe, co-founder of WestJet and Chair of the Board of the Directors. "Launching a ULCC will broaden WestJet's growth opportunities and open new market segments by offering more choice to those Canadians looking for lower fares."

"The worldview on low-cost airlines has changed since the launch of WestJet in 1996 and we are responding," commented Gregg Saretsky, WestJet President and CEO. "The complete unbundling of services and products in order to lower fares for the price-sensitive traveller has created the ULCC category and our new airline will provide Canadians a pro-competitive, cheap and cheerful flying experience from a company with a proven track record."
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#2 Post by HansDietrich » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:20 am

Oh man... The race to the bottom continues. How cheap have we become as Canadians? I'm no airline analyst but would something like this even survive in Canada? Didn't we have JetsGo, ZIP, Tango and some other names that tried and failed?
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#3 Post by PROC_HDG » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:15 am

WestJet Pilots:

This is the time when you need to stand up and do what's right. You have the cards. You know what this means for your future wages and working conditions. You know what this means for your upgrade times, growth and job security. For the love of god, do all of us a favour, yourselves in particular, and don't allow this thing to happen.

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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#4 Post by sanjet » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:18 am

In other words, westjet workers are too expensive now?
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#5 Post by infiniteregulus » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:26 am

PROC_HDG wrote:WestJet Pilots:

This is the time when you need to stand up and do what's right. You have the cards. You know what this means for your future wages and working conditions. You know what this means for your upgrade times, growth and job security. For the love of god, do all of us a favour, yourselves in particular, and don't allow this thing to happen.

PROC_HDG
+1
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#6 Post by altiplano » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:47 am

I wonder who they'll say the market is for this service?
Westjet is already the carrier of choice for the lowest yield, bottom of the market...

The answer is that it isn't about generating anything new. It's about an appearance of growth, while depressing wages on a maturing workforce.

I hope WS pilots see what rouge has done when they come for wage concessions... only ones working for a discount are the pilots... not dispatch, not maintenance, not agents, certainly not managers... leases cost the same, fuel, landing fees... they only come for pilot wages and division...

Tell them to put whatever configuration and service level they want in the back, but more seats = more pay.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#7 Post by rudder » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:53 am

altiplano wrote:
Tell them to put whatever configuration and service level they want in the back, but more seats = more pay.
Paint jobs and seating configurations are the purview of senior management and the commercial planning department. But the pay for a 737-800 is the pay whether it is an executive BBJ config or O'Leary sardine configuration.

Both the WJ pilots and the AC pilots need to get on the same page with this.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#8 Post by HansDietrich » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:08 am

rudder wrote:
altiplano wrote:
Tell them to put whatever configuration and service level they want in the back, but more seats = more pay.
Paint jobs and seating configurations are the purview of senior management and the commercial planning department. But the pay for a 737-800 is the pay whether it is an executive BBJ config or O'Leary sardine configuration.

Both the WJ pilots and the AC pilots need to get on the same page with this.

Yeah. That's part of it. The other part is how much you work per month. If I am expected to work 22 days a month I should be getting paid more than working 15 days per month (Disclaimer: "Days" = "Hours" & vice versa)
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#9 Post by rudder » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:14 am

HansDietrich wrote:
Yeah. That's part of it. The other part is how much you work per month. If I am expected to work 22 days a month I should be getting paid more than working 15 days per month (Disclaimer: "Days" = "Hours" & vice versa)
At least ACPA capped that issue. Max 16 work days with min pay guarantee of 77.5

Not perfect but better than what you described.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#10 Post by tailgunner » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:31 am

The way I see this unfolding, is the ENCORE pilot group will be given these seats. WJ will sell it to the WJPA group saying that these 10 aircraft were to be returned to the lease holders. So a win win for both groups....unless wages and working conditions are factored in.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#11 Post by 3down&loct » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:51 am

Pilots in Canada need to start uniting and put an end to this BS. The only ones benefiting from this crap is the Executive Teams. Corporate greed is killing North America.
Fellow WestJet pilots. Sign a card please.
Love to see AC join ALPA once we do.
For the record I am pretty sure WJ pilots will vote this down, but of course this will mean nothing as the Company will go ahead anyway.
Embarrassed to be a WJ pilot today
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#12 Post by True North » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:50 am

3down&loct wrote:Pilots in Canada need to start uniting and put an end to this BS. The only ones benefiting from this crap is the Executive Teams. Corporate greed is killing North America.
Fellow WestJet pilots. Sign a card please.
Love to see AC join ALPA once we do.
For the record I am pretty sure WJ pilots will vote this down, but of course this will mean nothing as the Company will go ahead anyway.
Embarrassed to be a WJ pilot today
I love the hysteria. :roll:

Since there are no details at all yet, why is it you assume the worst and the release I read said the whole thing is contingent on an agreement with the pilots. How would being represented by ALPA change anything?
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#13 Post by rudder » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:29 am

True North wrote:How would being represented by ALPA change anything?
WJPA puppets replaced. Certified bargaining agent with Constitution and By-Laws. Professional resources. Elected representatives. Provisions of the Federal Labour Code for conciliation and right to strike.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#14 Post by mike06x » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:41 am

PROC_HDG wrote:WestJet Pilots:

This is the time when you need to stand up and do what's right. You have the cards. You know what this means for your future wages and working conditions. You know what this means for your upgrade times, growth and job security. For the love of god, do all of us a favour, yourselves in particular, and don't allow this thing to happen.

PROC_HDG

Westjet pilots need to take a stand, DO NOT allow this to happen
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#15 Post by True North » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:12 pm

rudder wrote:
True North wrote:How would being represented by ALPA change anything?
WJPA puppets replaced. Certified bargaining agent with Constitution and By-Laws. Professional resources. Elected representatives. Provisions of the Federal Labour Code for conciliation and right to strike.
I'm pretty sure the WJPA officials are elected so, puppets? I'm also pretty sure they have a Constitution and By-Laws so really all they are missing is the right to strike. The feds didn't let the Air Canada pilots strike, what makes you think they would let the WJ pilots strike? If it ever got to that point everyone has lost anyway.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#16 Post by Maritimer » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:23 pm

True North wrote:
rudder wrote:
True North wrote:How would being represented by ALPA change anything?
WJPA puppets replaced. Certified bargaining agent with Constitution and By-Laws. Professional resources. Elected representatives. Provisions of the Federal Labour Code for conciliation and right to strike.
I'm pretty sure the WJPA officials are elected so, puppets? I'm also pretty sure they have a Constitution and By-Laws so really all they are missing is the right to strike. The feds didn't let the Air Canada pilots strike, what makes you think they would let the WJ pilots strike? If it ever got to that point everyone has lost anyway.

Elected to positions that were never voted on by the pilots as "representation by choice". The people were voted on, the organization never was. And as for constitution and by-laws, things like that don't typically stand up in court when they're written on a napkin. Fellow WJ pilots, IT'S TIME. It has been for a while now.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#17 Post by 3down&loct » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:10 pm

Good news with the bad :D .
Cards are filed!!
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#18 Post by Old fella » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:41 pm

Meanwhile back at the airport, the travelling public will probably think great news, cheaper fares. My arse!!!!!!

:lol: :lol:
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#19 Post by eliteair » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:50 pm

WestJet Pilots Seek ALPA Representation

WASHINGTON, D.C.—WestJet pilots filed membership cards today with the Canada Industrial Relations Board (CIRB) to hold an election for representation by the Air Line Pilots Association, International (ALPA).

“WestJet pilots told us they are ready for a certified union,” said ALPA president Capt. Tim Canoll. “Now is the time for them to take the next step and vote for ALPA in order to obtain the resources available to secure their goals.”
- See more at: http://www.alpa.org/news-and-events/new ... d9ieI.dpuf
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#20 Post by 3down&loct » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:23 pm

A great step towards unifying the pilot group in Canada.
Ultimately after WJ certifies it would be great to see AC join and perhaps Sunwing, who I understand initially did want ALPA.
The spiral downwards needs to end.
I do not see Delta,United, SW nor American going broke because their pilots are paid to much and worked to hard.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#21 Post by True North » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:35 pm

3down&loct wrote:A great step towards unifying the pilot group in Canada.
Ultimately after WJ certifies it would be great to see AC join and perhaps Sunwing, who I understand initially did want ALPA.
The spiral downwards needs to end.
I do not see Delta,United, SW nor American going broke because their pilots are paid to much and worked to hard.
To paraphrase; you've been drinking way too much ALPA Kool Aid.

I had the misfortune of being represented by them for a portion of my career, an utterly useless organization. And I was working for an American carrier. If you think ALPA Canada is going to do anything for you that your own association can't, you're delusional. Oh, they will take your money though. They are very good at that.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#22 Post by rudder » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:49 pm

True North wrote:
To paraphrase; you've been drinking way too much ALPA Kool Aid.

I had the misfortune of being represented by them for a portion of my career, an utterly useless organization. And I was working for an American carrier. If you think ALPA Canada is going to do anything for you that your own association can't, you're delusional. Oh, they will take your money though. They are very good at that.
Hopefully you do not have a vote in the matter at WJ. And if you do, there are probably 2 yes votes for every no vote. My guess is that the WJ pilots will impress ALPA as the newest member group and that the WJ pilots will be impressed by ALPA.

It is the members that make the organization. That applies both locally and nationally. ALPA has evolved and changed over decades and will continue to do so at the behest of its constituents whom are also the organization's leaders and decision makers.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#23 Post by Darkwing Duck » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:54 pm

True North wrote:
3down&loct wrote:Pilots in Canada need to start uniting and put an end to this BS. The only ones benefiting from this crap is the Executive Teams. Corporate greed is killing North America.
Fellow WestJet pilots. Sign a card please.
Love to see AC join ALPA once we do.
For the record I am pretty sure WJ pilots will vote this down, but of course this will mean nothing as the Company will go ahead anyway.
Embarrassed to be a WJ pilot today
I love the hysteria. :roll:

Since there are no details at all yet, why is it you assume the worst and the release I read said the whole thing is contingent on an agreement with the pilots. How would being represented by ALPA change anything?

Love the hysteria? Funny how this has all happened in the past with now defunct carriers. And WJ did it with WJ Jr. Lower wages, poorer work conditions, and on and on. Just a grab for the faster all mighty buck and a race to the bottom for those needing to bulk up hours. This is going to be a training ground for Encore which is already a training ground for senior.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#24 Post by True North » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:03 pm

rudder wrote:
True North wrote:
To paraphrase; you've been drinking way too much ALPA Kool Aid.

I had the misfortune of being represented by them for a portion of my career, an utterly useless organization. And I was working for an American carrier. If you think ALPA Canada is going to do anything for you that your own association can't, you're delusional. Oh, they will take your money though. They are very good at that.
Hopefully you do not have a vote in the matter at WJ. And if you do, there are probably 2 yes votes for every no vote. My guess is that the WJ pilots will impress ALPA as the newest member group and that the WJ pilots will be impressed by ALPA.

It is the members that make the organization. That applies both locally and nationally. ALPA has evolved and changed over decades and will continue to do so at the behest of its constituents whom are also the organization's leaders and decision makers.
You keep telling yourself that.

If the ALPA vote passes, what say we reconvene here in a year and you can tell us all how wonderful life is under their representation. Even though you'll be thousands of dollars poorer.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#25 Post by mijbil » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:31 pm

Divide and conquer. Saretsky has clearly learned from Julius Caesar and Napoleon and the British Empire and I think that this is his response to the likelihood of the unionization of WS. That will be his legacy - unionization - not widebodies - and I expect that he doesn't like it and this is the way to force division and maybe avoid a union. Given my conversations with those in mainline WS, the union thing will probably pass. I told a buddy there "I'll bet you guys are unionized by Christmas" His reply: "Try by the summer". It didn't have to be that way but Saretsky has morphed it from People Passengers Profits into Profits Profits Profits. Too bad. I'm represented by ALPA at my present company. Haven't seen anything really good or bad. They collect dues faithfully but I do get 4 hours credit for a DH or day of reserve. It will be a good case study to see if conditions improve or not at WS (assuming they unionize). Of real interest will be what happens to the common seniority list with Encore if mainline goes union and Encore is not.
Thread drift - back to the ULCC. No more cookies or pretzels??
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