WestJet To Launch ULCC

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Arctic84
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#201 Post by Arctic84 » Mon May 01, 2017 7:15 pm

squawk wrote:If you are truly a WestJet Pilot and a millennial then I'm very sceptical about our future. Think long and hard before you vote. Could be for your own demise or your own sucsess. Good Luck to you.

That's the spirit. We are all in it together. The guy who brags about all the money he makes and how he doesn't care about anyone else. Then he tries to make it like he cares about one list and DOH for the regional pilots. Or the guys that only care about paying 2.50 a pay for dues to the company run union.

Every man for himself. That's a hell of a legacy, so no wonder you are sceptical about the future.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#202 Post by squawk » Mon May 01, 2017 7:24 pm

Arctic84 wrote:
squawk wrote:If you are truly a WestJet Pilot and a millennial then I'm very sceptical about our future. Think long and hard before you vote. Could be for your own demise or your own sucsess. Good Luck to you.

That's the spirit. We are all in it together. The guy who brags about all the money he makes and how he doesn't care about anyone else. Then he tries to make it like he cares about one list and DOH for the regional pilots. Or the guys that only care about paying 2.50 a pay for dues to the company run union.

Every man for himself. That's a hell of a legacy, so no wonder you are sceptical about the future.
2.50 a pay check? You don't work at Westjet then. It's 20dollars a pay check. I'm starting to think you work elsewhere and would revel in our demise. You have NO Dog in this fight.
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Last edited by squawk on Mon May 01, 2017 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#203 Post by squawk » Mon May 01, 2017 7:27 pm

altiplano wrote:
That list does not occur under any ALPA CBA
Your present terms and conditions can't be eroded unilaterally at certification. You would have everything you do today unless you bargained it away.
You are correct. But eventually everything is on the table pre abritration.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#204 Post by Arctic84 » Mon May 01, 2017 7:32 pm

I get more bang for my buck at 480 bucks (WJPA) a year, thank you. You can only guarantee me a magazine subscription for 2k a year after I deduct it from my taxes.[/quote]
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#205 Post by squawk » Mon May 01, 2017 7:36 pm

Arctic84 wrote:I get more bang for my buck at 480 bucks (WJPA) a year, thank you. You can only guarantee me a magazine subscription for 2k a year after I deduct it from my taxes.
[/quote]

That's correct. Good on you. 40 times 12 is 480 bucks. Math is hard!
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#206 Post by Arctic84 » Mon May 01, 2017 7:38 pm

I get paid 26 times a year. So that works out to 520 bucks a year, not 480. So apparently, math is hard!

Maybe it's you that doesn't work here. LOL

The 2.50 a pay makes you all nostalgic tho, don't it.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#207 Post by squawk » Mon May 01, 2017 7:49 pm

Arctic84 wrote:I get paid 26 times a year. So that works out to 520 bucks a year, not 480. So apparently, math is hard!

Maybe it's you that doesn't work here. LOL

The 2.50 a pay makes you all nostalgic tho, don't it.
Tell you what! i'll through that extra 40 into the kitty. My bet is your job will cost you more and pay you less than it does now, if after ALPA gets in and finally gets awarded a CBA through arbitration. We haven't layed off a pilot in 21 years. You may end up getting payed zero times a year.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#208 Post by Arctic84 » Mon May 01, 2017 8:01 pm

Sure I will. It's always been overpriced pilots that bankrupt airlines, never incompetent management.

You just keep on giving back until it feels good. Maybe if you get right back to minimum wage, you can keep working forever at the ULCC.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#209 Post by squawk » Mon May 01, 2017 8:05 pm

Arctic84 wrote:Sure I will. It's always been overpriced pilots that bankrupt airlines, never incompetent management.

You just keep on giving back until it feels good. Maybe if you get right back to minimum wage, you can keep working forever at the ULCC.
Blaming the company and its management has been union mantra since time in memorable.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#210 Post by Arctic84 » Mon May 01, 2017 8:13 pm

squawk wrote:
Arctic84 wrote:Sure I will. It's always been overpriced pilots that bankrupt airlines, never incompetent management.

You just keep on giving back until it feels good. Maybe if you get right back to minimum wage, you can keep working forever at the ULCC.
Blaming the company and its management has been union mantra since time in memorable.
You got me there. It's unions that manage companies into the ground. Always suspected that. Like how I never get tired of hearing how when C3 went out how the union didn't do a thing for the pilots. Was it the union that decided to buy Royal and Canjet without any due diligence? Was the union to blame for the 911 attacks?

Get real.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#211 Post by squawk » Mon May 01, 2017 8:20 pm

Arctic84 wrote:
squawk wrote:
Arctic84 wrote:Sure I will. It's always been overpriced pilots that bankrupt airlines, never incompetent management.

You just keep on giving back until it feels good. Maybe if you get right back to minimum wage, you can keep working forever at the ULCC.
Blaming the company and its management has been union mantra since time in memorable.
You got me there. It's unions that manage companies into the ground. Always suspected that. Like how I never get tired of hearing how when C3 went out how the union didn't do a thing for the pilots. Was it the union that decided to buy Royal and Canjet without any due diligence? Was the union to blame for the 911 attacks?

Get real.
I hope someday you find that Airline job for that company that has gotten real.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#212 Post by '97 Tercel » Mon May 01, 2017 9:09 pm

These threads over here are interesting and entertaining, and about pretty serious stuff...

- over at the Air Canada section the hot topic is how to keep your nose from drying out while you sleep at hotels :P (but maybe its a good thing when that's all there is to talk about)
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#213 Post by hurtin'albertan » Mon May 01, 2017 10:13 pm

Why don't you guys keep the internal sh!t internal. You make all Wj pilots on both sides of the debate look like idiots carrying on like this. Who are you trying to convince here, the kid flying a beaver in Butthole, NWT who is trying to figure out how to apply to Encore?

Seriously. grow the f-up and stfu in public.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#214 Post by infiniteregulus » Mon May 01, 2017 10:34 pm

This topic kinda concerns everyone as it's a ripple effect in the industry, not just WestJet
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#215 Post by Mr. North » Mon May 01, 2017 10:59 pm

Outsiders need to realize that 90% of the bafflegab being posted here is coming from one individual using several accounts.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#216 Post by NewCommercialPilot » Tue May 02, 2017 7:09 am

Between yourself and Arctic84, and a few others, you really don't seem possible of addressing arguments, or the points raised in them. Instead, you attack the character of the poster.

Very telling.

Cheers!!!

:D :D :D
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#217 Post by Jean-Pierre » Tue May 02, 2017 7:17 am

infiniteregulus wrote:This topic kinda concerns everyone as it's a ripple effect in the industry, not just WestJet
Increasing wages and improving working condition for Wesjet pilot should be good for everyone yes no? There is a reason the wage at Air Canada is not increased like South of the border. They don't have to increase it when they are the best game in town. If Westjet can retain more pilot maybe Air Canada will have to do something to be more attractive.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#218 Post by Smitty » Tue May 02, 2017 7:49 am

Arctic84

We have paid reserve in the current contract. It's called OCD and it's been used more often in the last 3-4 months and not just for those the part time pilots. Westjet has also implemented pay for some of those long sits. I can only guess as to whether this trend will continue, but I think it's disingenuous to ignore that to paint such a negative picture.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#219 Post by indieadventurer » Tue May 02, 2017 9:59 am

Smitty wrote:Arctic84

We have paid reserve in the current contract. It's called OCD and it's been used more often in the last 3-4 months and not just for those the part time pilots. Westjet has also implemented pay for some of those long sits. I can only guess as to whether this trend will continue, but I think it's disingenuous to ignore that to paint such a negative picture.
+1

Things are good here. I'm on the fence about alpa. Yes the wjpa has made errors, no one will refute that. They aren't 100% independent of management influence and I want representation that is. Look at how complex an operation we've become since 1997 and how much bigger we're going to get over the next decade. Seeking professional independent representation to look after our own and maybe also the industry's best interests while management looks after the company's best interests is rational thinking. What bugs me is the rhetoric I hear from both sides.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#220 Post by groundpilot » Tue May 02, 2017 4:14 pm

http://www.bnn.ca/westjet-posts-45-fall ... t-1.740336

"WJ posts 45% fall in Q1 profit"

“To do the best job of it, we need to lower our costs even more..." - Saretsky

Going to take a lot of cheap pilots to clean those flashy B787s
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#221 Post by Mr. North » Tue May 02, 2017 9:51 pm

"WJ posts 45% fall in Q1 profit"

It sounds worse than it actually is. Did people think cheap oil would last forever?!
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#222 Post by Realitychex » Wed May 03, 2017 10:00 pm

Mr. North wrote:"WJ posts 45% fall in Q1 profit"

It sounds worse than it actually is. Did people think cheap oil would last forever?!

WJ's operating profit in 1Q 2017 was down 34.3% yoy.

The industry collective operating profit, including the 11 North American publicly traded sched carriers that have reported 1Q 2017 thus far, (ie all but AC), dropped from $5.765b in 1Q 2016 to $3.259B in 1Q 2017, or down an average of 43.5%.

WJ was one of the better performers in the bigger scheme of things. Only Southwest, (down 30.3%), Delta, (down 31.6%), Hawaiian (down 30.6%) and Skywest, (up 23.4%), did better.

I wonder where AC will fit in when they report on Friday. We all know that companies always release stellar numbers on Fridays.

If they match WJ's YoY decline of 34.3%, that puts their 1Q operating profit at about $119.7M. Subtract interest payments of about $83m, because bankers don't like it when airlines don't pay interest on loans for those shiny new aircraft, and that indicates a true operating profit of about $35m on revenues of about $3.5b, which is getting into rounding error territory.

That compares to WJ's actuals of $65.3m on revenues of $1.11B. Twice the profit on 1/3 the revenues for those paying attention.

Should AC's operating margin decline be closer to the industry average, (and let's face it, AC rarely beats industry average in any metric that matters), the operating profit would slide to about $87m. Subtract $83m +/- of interest and we're back to a break-even proposition with oil at $50bbl.

It'll be interesting to see how this back of the envelope math compares with actuals released Friday morning.

8)

Addendum: Like I said, AC rarely beats industry average in any metric that matters. By far the worst numbers of any publicly traded airline in North America. So much for the big turnaround.

8)
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#223 Post by '97 Tercel » Wed May 03, 2017 11:30 pm

I guess it pays to ask for the short gate.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#224 Post by KAG » Fri May 05, 2017 8:00 am

squawk wrote:
Arctic84 wrote:Sure I will. It's always been overpriced pilots that bankrupt airlines, never incompetent management.

You just keep on giving back until it feels good. Maybe if you get right back to minimum wage, you can keep working forever at the ULCC.
Blaming the company and its management has been union mantra since time in memorable.
Blaming overpriced workers has been the anti union mantra since time memorable. :smt014
No point in fighting over this, the vote will tell which way the wind is blowing. Then its up to us to work together with management to keep the party going. IMHO I see good times ahead.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#225 Post by The Raven » Fri May 05, 2017 8:26 am

When is the vote?
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