WestJet To Launch ULCC

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.80@410
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#251 Post by .80@410 » Tue May 09, 2017 9:21 am

The only people currently making this adversarial is management and the WJPA with their "voice of management " fear mongering.

Alpa has been nothing but professional .


Encore won't lose their one list ( Management can't attract pilots without it- they want it more than the pilots do, lol )

And seniority won't happen. No one wants it or even talks about it online. But hey, use whatever tools you have right ?

:mrgreen:
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#252 Post by True North » Tue May 09, 2017 9:52 am

.80@410 wrote:The only people currently making this adversarial is management and the WJPA with their "voice of management " fear mongering.

Alpa has been nothing but professional .


Encore won't lose their one list ( Management can't attract pilots without it- they want it more than the pilots do, lol )

And seniority won't happen. No one wants it or even talks about it online. But hey, use whatever tools you have right ?

:mrgreen:
So is it you or is it ALPA that says your current agreement has no legal status?
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#253 Post by Smitty » Tue May 09, 2017 12:16 pm

.80@410 wrote:The only people currently making this adversarial is management and the WJPA with their "voice of management " fear mongering.

Alpa has been nothing but professional .


Encore won't lose their one list ( Management can't attract pilots without it- they want it more than the pilots do, lol )

And seniority won't happen. No one wants it or even talks about it online. But hey, use whatever tools you have right ?

:mrgreen:
All I've seen you guys do is dismiss anyone who disagrees with going ALPA is dismiss the messengers. This is known as the weakest form of argument and indicates an inability to articulate a decent rebuttal.

This is discussed on the line. It is a concern for those who may be negatively effected. The seniority bidding is brought up up due to the fact that few, if any ALPA carriers utilize socialized bidding (fact). Either no one brings it up because they know how strongly you will oppose them or you're just not listening.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#254 Post by NewCommercialPilot » Tue May 09, 2017 2:15 pm

How can ALPA promise the one list which would have non-bargaining unit members join the list above existing dues paying members. How could they even try to negotiate that when the MEC doesn't represent Encore pilots?

The answer is simple: they can't.

And again, how can an MEC violate Executive Board policy?

The answer is simple: they can't.

ALPA will bring many things to WestJet pilots. Unity is not one of them.

Cheers
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#255 Post by Nwtflier » Tue May 09, 2017 3:07 pm

Encore will be ALPA if mainline is.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#256 Post by NewCommercialPilot » Tue May 09, 2017 5:34 pm

That's nice but the duty of the MEC is to its bargaining unit members. Constitutionally it must protect the rights of the last member of the bargaining unit versus giving a new hire to WestJet (From.Encore or not) a higher position on the list.

No matter how you slice it, with ALPA, the Encore pilots will be joining at the BOTL.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#257 Post by Ah_yeah » Tue May 09, 2017 6:11 pm

Rotten Apple #1 wrote:
rudder wrote:
Rotten Apple #1 wrote:
In unity, your comrade,

Felix
Apparently you may be one of the subscribers to the notion that employers should be able to use pilot pay as a competitive tool. Hopefully you and people that think like you will remain in the minority.

It would certainly appear that the majority of the WJ pilots are about to take the first step of taking that corporate strategy off the table. Hopefully ACPA will do the same and resist offers to expand the Rouge b-scale pilot population of the AC pilot seniority list.

Employers have every right to add seats, create brands, and charge extra for carry on bags or advance seat selection if that is their chosen tactic for preserving or increasing market share. But they should NOT rely on pilots agreeing to fly cheaper in order to achieve this objective.
Oh how cute you are mr. rudder. I'm just amazed there exist gullible people like you after the experience in the 20th century that saw the complete dispelling of any notion of centrally planned economies making any sense. We are competitive beings. We are not by nature communists. Why compete for anything if there is a specified wage or specified price for goods and services? By the way, what was the price you had in mind for the YYZ-LHR route? I assume all companies will charge the same under your belief system?

Pilots are no different from any other occupation in a market economy. People will either apply for the jobs at the advertised wage or they will not. By the same token, WJ will either employ pilots at its planned ULCC at its planned wages or it will not. Should the pilots decide to go with ALPA, I'm sure WJ has a back up plan to start its ULCC in the manner it has planned.

ALPA was in large part responsible for the run up in wages and benefits in the airline industry south of the border that eled to the cycle of bankruptcy and restart that plagued airlines in the 80's and later.

IF ALPA is successful, I'll watch from the sidelines. I won't be joining the union and I won't be walking a stike line but I'll glady cross it. I didn't get into aviation because of the brotherhood and I'm not going to start now. I don't care what intimidation tactics ALPA goons employ from blanket parties, whistles, or keying my 1998 Ford Explorer, and I don't care what the the reaction of my co-workers is. I was hired by WJ and I've been treated very well here and I believe in keeping my company nimble enough to react to market conditions in order to avoid the dung heap of obscalescence that is thre history of North American airlines.

WJ enabled me to make $370,000 in 2015 and in spite of a skydiving injury that had me off work for 4.5 months in 2016, I still made $302,000 plus 4.5 x $8000/month tax free. I'll keep what I have thank you very much. But if they do manage a CBA, I'm sure my seniority will have me making a bit less but working less than my junior colleagues and I'll have prime vacation off every year.

All hail the proletariat!

WestJet Scab #1
Employee #4799
Wow. That was a desperate post.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#258 Post by Ah_yeah » Tue May 09, 2017 7:43 pm

NewCommercialPilot wrote:Oh, so what, on an anonymous forum I'm supposed to be truthful? Where does it say that in the rule of internet posting.

It's a pattern: don't have a response to the argument, attack the poster.

Cheers!
You got busted. :lol:
At least create another login name fer eff sakes.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#259 Post by really? » Wed May 10, 2017 4:04 am

First time. Long time. Thread drift.

Does a WJ guy really get paid 370K a year? Is that the norm? And over 300K in only 5.5 months of work? What are they paying these days? Asking for a friend who's tiring of the smog in the fragrant harbour...
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#260 Post by Rotten Apple #1 » Wed May 10, 2017 4:33 am

What are you talking about?
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#261 Post by JBI » Wed May 10, 2017 5:02 am

NewCommercialPilot wrote:That's nice but the duty of the MEC is to its bargaining unit members. Constitutionally it must protect the rights of the last member of the bargaining unit versus giving a new hire to WestJet (From.Encore or not) a higher position on the list.
Do you have a reference to support this claim?

Unions are required to follow the mandate of what a majority of members direct them to do unless these infringe upon one of the enumerated grounds of of discrimination (race, gender, disability, age etc.). Any time a CBA gets negotiated there will be members of a group that do better than others. The ones who do 'worse' don't automatically have a recourse against the union if the union was just following its mandate.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#262 Post by North Shore » Wed May 10, 2017 7:22 am

JBI wrote:
NewCommercialPilot wrote:That's nice but the duty of the MEC is to its bargaining unit members. Constitutionally it must protect the rights of the last member of the bargaining unit versus giving a new hire to WestJet (From.Encore or not) a higher position on the list.
Do you have a reference to support this claim?

Unions are required to follow the mandate of what a majority of members direct them to do unless these infringe upon one of the enumerated grounds of of discrimination (race, gender, disability, age etc.). Any time a CBA gets negotiated there will be members of a group that do better than others. The ones who do 'worse' don't automatically have a recourse against the union if the union was just following its mandate.
Heh, the difference between a guy who thinks he's a lawyer, and one who actually is....
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#263 Post by hurtin'albertan » Wed May 10, 2017 9:11 am

NewCommercialPilot wrote:Oh, so what, on an anonymous forum I'm supposed to be truthful? Where does it say that in the rule of internet posting.
Haha J. Why start being truthful now? Don't you see the irony in your statement compared to your carpet bombing of posting under various names? Why would anyone believe anything you say?

All this bs you have been spouting (one list, seniority) has been addressed a million times by alpa, straight from the horse's mouth, yet you persist in making the same inaccurate claims over and over to push your ideology and agenda. I guess if you yell something loud enough and often enough it becomes true in your own mind. Never mind what the actual facts say.

It's pretty clear you have an agenda (unlimited OT perhaps to pad your T4?) that you are worried will dry up if special deals go away once there is accountability and transparency. Where's the guy who said RUN DON'T WALK TO SIGN A CARD when his ass was on the line (you posted your story here, didn't you?)

This would be really funny if it wasn't also really sad.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#264 Post by NewCommercialPilot » Wed May 10, 2017 9:20 am

Oh whatever.

I'll admit I overreacted back in the fall. My ego was bruised NY management doing their job.

Then I got over myself. You should to and stop being so sad.

3,2,1

See ya!
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#265 Post by flyer 1492 » Thu May 11, 2017 7:54 am

I have no skin in this fight to unionize at West Jet. I've read the doom and gloom along with the positive posts. I have been with CALPA and ALPA most of my career (which spans almost 3 decades), guess what, we are still here and thriving. I've survived 3 mergers, 2 bankruptcies' (not the pilot's fault) and we are still here. I heard the same rhetoric at Time Air when we voted for CALPA and we are still here.

Flyer
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#266 Post by TheStig » Thu May 11, 2017 10:40 am

Realitychex wrote:
Addendum: Like I said, AC rarely beats industry average in any metric that matters. By far the worst numbers of any publicly traded airline in North America. So much for the big turnaround.

8)
Well we know your opinion.

The share price has gone up over 30% this week. Here's another one.

http://business.financialpost.com/inves ... td-analyst

“In our view, Air Canada’s valuation remains very attractive based on any metric or comparison, particularly when considering its achievements over the past five years and its growth potential.”
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#267 Post by mijbil » Thu May 11, 2017 12:13 pm

Rotten Apple #1 wrote:What are you talking about?
RA1 - He is referring to someone in Hong Kong tiring of the Chinese pollution and looking to come back to Canada. I expect that his buddy flys for Cathay or similar. Fragrant Harbour is the old Chinese name for Hong Kong harbour. Check out PPRUNE and that's the name for the Cathay threads.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#268 Post by groundpilot » Thu May 11, 2017 3:18 pm

TheStig wrote:
Realitychex wrote:
Addendum: Like I said, AC rarely beats industry average in any metric that matters. By far the worst numbers of any publicly traded airline in North America. So much for the big turnaround.

8)
Well we know your opinion.

The share price has gone up over 30% this week. Here's another one.

http://business.financialpost.com/inves ... td-analyst

“In our view, Air Canada’s valuation remains very attractive based on any metric or comparison, particularly when considering its achievements over the past five years and its growth potential.”
RealityChex is going to make WestJet great again!
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#269 Post by NewCommercialPilot » Thu May 11, 2017 3:57 pm

hurtin'albertan wrote:
NewCommercialPilot wrote:Oh, so what, on an anonymous forum I'm supposed to be truthful? Where does it say that in the rule of internet posting.
Haha J. Why start being truthful now? Don't you see the irony in your statement compared to your carpet bombing of posting under various names? Why would anyone believe anything you say?

All this bs you have been spouting (one list, seniority) has been addressed a million times by alpa, straight from the horse's mouth, yet you persist in making the same inaccurate claims over and over to push your ideology and agenda. I guess if you yell something loud enough and often enough it becomes true in your own mind. Never mind what the actual facts say.

It's pretty clear you have an agenda (unlimited OT perhaps to pad your T4?) that you are worried will dry up if special deals go away once there is accountability and transparency. Where's the guy who said RUN DON'T WALK TO SIGN A CARD when his ass was on the line (you posted your story here, didn't you?)

This would be really funny if it wasn't also really sad.
Hurtin' Albertam, I do work lots. And I'd say a sizeable proportion of that flying is as the Top WestJet IROP Recovery Pilot TWIRP, specializing in covering flights that need a Captain or they'd get cancelled. One of the benefits of being the TWIRP is I can afford time off to engage in fun activities like the one I did this morning, and that wasn't sad. It was fecking awesome:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j4XJaU0jGD4

Now go live your tragically boring life consumed with trying to find someone (WestJet?) responsible for your unhappiness.

See ya!

JS 4799
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#270 Post by .80@410 » Sat May 13, 2017 12:49 am

Done and done .
Thank god for that. :prayer:

Now, how to get my 20$/ per pay back that was wrestled from me months ago.
JS want to start a website for that? :rolleyes:

Contrarily, I will willingly be paying the dues for ALPA from here on out.

Next !
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#271 Post by Mostly Harmless » Wed May 17, 2017 9:38 am

Image
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#272 Post by prestonlad » Sat May 20, 2017 8:47 pm

With no skin in this game all I want to add is : the only way any pilot group can protect its interests is to look at the wider implications of the company's new plans and figure out ( carefully ) why they are doing this and how it affects costs etc. Rouge are a good example of how an airline can slide new operating strategy past a pilot group . I'm not for one minute suggesting we as a pilot body advocate fighting anything that produces profit BUT, we must keep in mind the fact that we are already underpaid for the work we do and need to see company expansion plans for what they are and ask " is this in our best interest interest " . If its just a naked attempt to subvert labour laws and/or union rules then west jet ULCC must be fought with all our collective heart. Just my 2 bucksworth.
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#273 Post by infiniteregulus » Mon May 22, 2017 10:37 pm

The fact that Australian airlines pay ~$70,000 starting FO salaries should be enough said. Canada is beginning to become sub par in ALL aspects in comparison to the world; pay, fatigue, etc..... Why on earth, is ANY of this justified??
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#274 Post by Legacy » Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:29 pm

Because we still have self serving pilots that will accept the job at low sub standard wages. You eliminate this weak link in the chain and the problem is solved. Pilots typically only think of themselves and that's the problem
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Re: WestJet To Launch ULCC

#275 Post by Schooner69A » Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:51 am

"Everyone sucks, but not everyone swallows, get a life J."


Really? Mind your manners.
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