WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Discuss topics relating to Westjet.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore

Message
Author
tsgas
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 343
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 12:53 pm

Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

#51 Post by tsgas » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:38 pm

this has been a real tailwind for the AC shares. thanks for the windfall.
---------- ADS -----------

Airbrake
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 2:50 pm

Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

#52 Post by Airbrake » Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:34 pm

tsgas wrote:this has been a real tailwind for the AC shares. thanks for the windfall.
I'd say the WJA shares have benefited as well.
Not the same % but still have just about passed the high in the last 2 years.
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
brooks
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 248
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:33 pm

Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

#53 Post by brooks » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:47 pm

I must say I wish I didn't sell at $13, I am quite jealous. WJ might get back up in the high 20s by fall.
---------- ADS -----------

iflyroads
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 168
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:50 am

Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

#54 Post by iflyroads » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:56 am

Has encore gone ALPA as well or are they trying to still?
---------- ADS -----------

Transonic
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:56 am

Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

#55 Post by Transonic » Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:00 am

tsgas wrote:this has been a real tailwind for the AC shares. thanks for the windfall.
It is WJA that is riding the tailwind.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report- ... e35572847/
---------- ADS -----------

tsgas
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 343
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 12:53 pm

Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

#56 Post by tsgas » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:50 pm

wrong . you don't know much about the TSX
---------- ADS -----------

Transonic
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:56 am

Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

#57 Post by Transonic » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:29 am

tsgas wrote:wrong . you don't know much about the TSX
No?

On Jul 5th AC announced there would be a greater than expected Q2 result. WJA closed the previous day at 23.54. On, Jul 5th it reached 24.34 after breaking through a key resistance level of 23.50. WJA spent 9 months bouncing off that resistance level. It peaked at 25.88 on the 7th day after the breakout.

Please tsgas, enlighten us.
---------- ADS -----------

Mach1
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 402
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:04 am

Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

#58 Post by Mach1 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:09 pm

I see they are going with the strategy I predicted they would go with. Drag it out as long as possible.
Turan Quettawala

Great. Thank you very much. And I guess just one more question that I guess we’re getting from investors here for sure in terms of the unionization, can you talk a little bit about what’s happening over the pilots’ union now? What the next steps are? And also maybe if you can talk a little bit about other employee groups that are planned to unionize as well within the next year or so? Thank you.

Gregg Saretsky

Yes, So, Turan, it’s a process that’s prescribed by the CIRB, and one that is well understood by all parties. We will be starting that negotiation with ALPA in September. It’s a process that can go for quite a long time; JetBlue in United States has gone four years without its first ALPA agreement. So we expect that to be a lengthy negotiating period and no impact to 2017 or 2018.
---------- ADS -----------
I'm going to knock this up a notch with my spice weasle. Bam!

JBI
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 709
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:21 am
Location: YYZ / LGA

Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

#59 Post by JBI » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:25 pm

Mach1 wrote:I see they are going with the strategy I predicted they would go with. Drag it out as long as possible.
It’s a process that can go for quite a long time; JetBlue in United States has gone four years without its first ALPA agreement. So we expect that to be a lengthy negotiating period and no impact to 2017 or 2018.
While I don't necessarily disagree with you - I think WestJet will negotiate extremely hard for the first CBA with all the other employee groups watching what happens with the pilots. There's only so much you can read in to comments made in a conference call with analysts. They instantly equate a unionized pilot group with higher labour costs and labour strife. I see this comment as trying to assuage their fears, especially for the upcoming year where WestJet continues to have some pretty high costs with a number of aircraft orders on the way.

WestJet pilots are under a very different legislative framework with regard to negotiating the first CBA which I understand has a little more stringent timelines for negotiating the first agreement. However, the reference to JetBlue should also calm investors fears over labour strife as JetBlue has, generally speaking, continued to be successful even during initial labour negotiations with the pilot group.
---------- ADS -----------

rudder
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1551
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:10 pm

Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

#60 Post by rudder » Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:24 am

Saretsky either intentionally misled or was not aware of the different Labour Code provisions that apply in Canada vs the RLA in the U.S.

Does not portend well for the process.
---------- ADS -----------

Longtimer
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 439
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:31 am

Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

#61 Post by Longtimer » Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:28 am

rudder wrote:Saretsky either intentionally misled or was not aware of the different Labour Code provisions that apply in Canada vs the RLA in the U.S.

Does not portend well for the process.
The following may be of interest, note the highlighted area.

Collective Bargaining

Once a union has been certified or voluntarily recognized, the employer and the union must meet in an attempt to reach a collective agreement. The employer must respect the statutory freeze period and cannot change the terms and conditions of employment for its employees until an agreement has been reached voluntarily, until there is a lockout or strike, or pursuant to the arbitration provisions in the legislation.

The collective agreement is a contract setting out the terms and conditions of employees in the bargaining unit. Once ratified, it becomes a legally enforceable and binding contract. It normally has a defined term and is subject to re-negotiation on a pre-determined schedule. Unless the legislation otherwise specifies, the agreement usually states whether it will expire at the end of the term, until it is re-negotiated, or whether it will continue in full force and effect until a renewal agreement is reached.

As soon as a union represents the employee, the employee and the employer cannot negotiate with each other over individual terms and conditions of employment. The union is the sole and exclusive bargaining agent for the employees it represents. The employer must deal with the appointed union representatives.
http://hrcouncil.ca/hr-toolkit/policies ... t.cfm#sec4
---------- ADS -----------

Mach1
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 402
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:04 am

Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

#62 Post by Mach1 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:43 pm

I understand the current agreement is frozen. The implication for the company is that there will be no increase in labour costs as long as they can hold off negotiating a new contract. I know there is a limit on how long the company can stall before it is taken to arbitration (which is a bit of a coin toss in itself) but, I have found no limitation on how long it can stay in arbitration.

Conclusion: It could be a really long time before anyone sees a raise.
---------- ADS -----------
I'm going to knock this up a notch with my spice weasle. Bam!

User avatar
CaptainHaddock
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 11:22 am
Location: Wet coast

Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

#63 Post by CaptainHaddock » Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:56 am

I believe once they start the negotiations they only have one year to complete them in canada, if they fail it comes to a mediator, then arbitrator. So no dragging on for 4 years. I don't think either side wants it to go that long even.
---------- ADS -----------
Billions of Bilious Blue Blistering Barnacles!

Mach1
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 402
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:04 am

Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

#64 Post by Mach1 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:44 am

CaptainHaddock wrote: if they fail it comes to a mediator, then arbitrator. So no dragging on for 4 years. I don't think either side wants it to go that long even.
But no rules on how long it can stay in arbitration... not that I can find... and a question everyone avoids answering when I ask it.
---------- ADS -----------
I'm going to knock this up a notch with my spice weasle. Bam!

moe
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 3:20 pm

Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

#65 Post by moe » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:58 am

Delta contract pls
Thanks
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
NewCommercialPilot
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:22 am

Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

#66 Post by NewCommercialPilot » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:56 am

Less than 24% of the eligible 529 members of the YYZ LEC bothered to vote for their Captain and FO representative, and I understand YYC had a similar amount of engagement. It was these same LEC reps from the three bases who then "chose" the MEC positions. I'm curious as to the apathy. Is it buyer's remorse. And how legitimate are the MEC members given the apathy?

Cheers

John
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
RRJetPilot
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 10:43 am

Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

#67 Post by RRJetPilot » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:18 pm

NewCommercialPilot wrote:Less than 24% of the eligible 529 members of the YYZ LEC bothered to vote for their Captain and FO representative, and I understand YYC had a similar amount of engagement. It was these same LEC reps from the three bases who then "chose" the MEC positions. I'm curious as to the apathy. Is it buyer's remorse. And how legitimate are the MEC members given the apathy?

Cheers

John
Is your goal to divide your own pilot group?

ALPA is here to represent pilots nation wide and improve working conditions and wages. And protect us. I seem to remember hearing you were calling for protection once? What made you change your tune?

I don't comment much but In my opinion of your posts you are a disgrace to the pilot community.

Maybe stick to bragging about your stupid wing suit adventures.
---------- ADS -----------

Schooner69A
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 322
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:17 pm
Location: The Okanagan

Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

#68 Post by Schooner69A » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:51 am

RRJP


“Is your goal to divide your own pilot group?”

I think he’s highlighting that this may already have happened? What’s your take on the situation? What could have caused the poor turn-out?


“I don't comment much but In my opinion of your posts you are a disgrace to the pilot community.”

To which pilot community do you refer? If it’s the 604 group, that’s a terrible thing to say. However, if it’s any other group, that’s a pretty mild rebuke… Do you want to know my opinion of someone who attacks a poster without offering any comment on the subject post? Gormless comes to mind… Look up “ad hominem”


"Maybe stick to bragging about your stupid wing suit adventures."

The use of the word “stupid” in the phrase “…stupid wing suit…” reminds me of my four-year old daughter sputtering at her five-year old brother when she did not have the vocabulary to utter anything else.
---------- ADS -----------

Ex DC10 Driver
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:58 am

Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

#69 Post by Ex DC10 Driver » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:17 am

I agree with New Commercial Pilot's observation. There is definitely apathy taking place. Some LEC members were 'elected' by acclimation due to very few of the 1500 pilots volunteering to run for an elected position. However regardless of the turn out they are legitimate as they were elected. If they turn out to underperform people's expectations, those who did not vote or opt to run themselves have no right to complain.
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
NewCommercialPilot
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:22 am

Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

#70 Post by NewCommercialPilot » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:24 am

Ha! Amusing. As if anything I could post here could divide WJ pilots. What a poor use of the logic part of a breathing human being's brain.

Another point: how is it that the promoters and organizers of ALPA who divided the pilot group were also not disgraceful? The definition of a double standard...

Anyhow every day brings us closer to a de-certification vote. Sub 25% voter participation is something that the WJPA never experienced.

Oh, the latest thing I'm crowing about is my 28,000 foot skydive in Tennessee a few weeks back. Check out my YouTube channel for the highlights of that jump. Next year's goal is a jump from 39,000 feet. Stay tuned!

Captain Fan-freaking-tastic
---------- ADS -----------

rxl
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 451
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:17 am
Location: Terminal 4

Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

#71 Post by rxl » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:59 am

NewCommercialPilot wrote: Oh, the latest thing I'm crowing about is my 28,000 foot skydive in Tennessee a few weeks back. Check out my YouTube channel for the highlights of that jump. Next year's goal is a jump from 39,000 feet. Stay tuned!

Captain Fan-freaking-tastic
Speaking of the "poor use of the logic part of a breathing human being's brain" ...
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
mantogasrsrwy
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 277
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 9:07 pm
Location: The good side of the tracks

Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

#72 Post by mantogasrsrwy » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:05 pm

rxl wrote:
NewCommercialPilot wrote: Oh, the latest thing I'm crowing about is my 28,000 foot skydive in Tennessee a few weeks back. Check out my YouTube channel for the highlights of that jump. Next year's goal is a jump from 39,000 feet. Stay tuned!

Captain Fan-freaking-tastic
Speaking of the "poor use of the logic part of a breathing human being's brain" ...
Do you see the irony in your post? I do.
---------- ADS -----------

True North
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 469
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 6:39 pm

Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

#73 Post by True North » Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:16 pm

The apathy is very interesting but I don't see a de-certification vote coming any time soon - too much apathy. :roll:

The pro ALPA gang won their campaign on a lot of promises, now they have to deliver on those promises and good luck with that. I've talked to lots of WJ guys over the last few months and I absolutely cannot believe what they bought into. Of course unions always promise the moon but the fact that a bunch of allegedly intelligent individuals bought their story is quite frankly, shocking.

I will make a couple of predictions; the first CBA negotiated for the WJ pilots by ALPA will be a concessionary contract. They will go backwards. WJ management is going to send a signal to all the other employee groups that are thinking about unionizing and the message won't be pretty. There isn't a hope in hell that ALPA, or any union for that matter, will be able to deliver on even half of the promises they made. This will go to arbitration - guaranteed, and the pilots will lose in arbitration.

Going to be very interesting to watch.
---------- ADS -----------

jjj
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 627
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 12:53 am

Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

#74 Post by jjj » Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:43 pm

I’ll take the bet that the company will not want to have this go on forever.

We currently have a contract to a minimum of 77.5 hours a month in a 16 day max. I’ll take that deal under the new duty regs kick in and they can only get 68 hours of productivity. They will have a bird and frankly being dying to have a little sit down.

If that doesn’t do it then when they can’t run the ULCC properly - they’ll be dying to chat.

When Encore starts parking airplanes - they’ll want to chat.

That is the tip of the iceberg over the next couple years and I like the odds.
---------- ADS -----------

True North
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 469
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 6:39 pm

Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

#75 Post by True North » Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:33 am

If all that is true then why do you need ALPA?
---------- ADS -----------

Post Reply

Return to “WestJet”