WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

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Finn
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by Finn »

NewCommercialPilot wrote:.



Peace to you all.

JS
4799
Hi NewCP
What you are arguing is the application of the extreme and probably the final action a President of ALPA can employ to a seriously dysfunctional or rogue pilot group. Unless the WJ pilots go totally sideways in there actions, and I mean properly insane, no ALPA President is going to stand in the way of the current agreement they have with Encore or a significantly enhanced version of that. No way, no how. That is not the way ALPA works. You are reading a manual or succumbing to propaganda, and respectfully, have no real experience in application of that manual or real life experience. Of note their have been instances of an ALPA President declining to sign Canadian Collective agreements or letters that mending them. That is interesting, but under the law of this country has no effect on the legitimacy of a properly ratified agreement. There have been case of the President of a Company refusing to sign properly ratified agreement. That too is interesting but irrelevant to it's efficacy. ALPA carriers in Canada have negotiated seniority rights for other pilot groups to their own bargaining unit on an interest bases. That is a fact.

Bottom line is that the biggest motivation that holds ALPA together isn't the ADMIN Manual, Constitution and Bylaws, but the collective will of all the pilot groups to pool their resources to support common interests, share their collective experiences and form a community of like minded (ie professional pilots) in an effort to advance the interests of the profession we all have chosen to the benefit of all. It's not always pretty, but the ugly is IMHO worth the result.

the direction and actions of the WJ pilots is really up to the WJ pilots. I sincerely hope they embrace this opportunity and participate fully in their future as a recognized and effective group. The community needs their input
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yycflyguy
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by yycflyguy »

Schooner69A wrote:
It was not an easy merge. At one point during a routine route check on a mixed crew taxiing out for departure, a TC inspector advised that if they didn’t get the sh*t together, he would order the aircraft back to the gate…
My Dad used to threaten me and my Sister with that one all the time.
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Schooner69A
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by Schooner69A »

yycflyguy:

Your dad was an ex-Golden Hawk?
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Rotten Apple #1
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by Rotten Apple #1 »

Hi Finn. If you do the research, you will find that a union has to follow its constitution, but is given wide latitude by the courts on how to interpret that constitution. Given the numerous times that ALPA has revised its merger policy, it could have done so as well with its 1956 Executive Board policy on seniority list formation (DOH). It has not revised that policy in the intervening 61 years, only reaffirmed it.

But time will tell. Perhaps Encore will certify too and have a DOH seniority list and WJ will be different and have a non-DOH seniority list. Makes sense...
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Bede
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by Bede »

FYI for everyone: Rotten Apple and NewCommercialPilot are the same guy.
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True North
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by True North »

Bede wrote:FYI for everyone: Rotten Apple and NewCommercialPilot are the same guy.
We know. Who cares?
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Schooner69A
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by Schooner69A »

You donkeys! Now he knows that you know... You shoulda kept stumm!
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Finn
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by Finn »

Rotten Apple #1 wrote:Hi Finn. If you do the research, you will find that a union has to follow its constitution, but is given wide latitude by the courts on how to interpret that constitution. Given the numerous times that ALPA has revised its merger policy, it could have done so as well with its 1956 Executive Board policy on seniority list formation (DOH). It has not revised that policy in the intervening 61 years, only reaffirmed it.

But time will tell. Perhaps Encore will certify too and have a DOH seniority list and WJ will be different and have a non-DOH seniority list. Makes sense...

I suggest you fact check yourself as to how the NWA/DAL, UAL/CAL and the upcoming VGA/AAL merger were or will be accommodated and compare that against the Admin/Constitution-bylaws as written. Reality is that the effected groups have a large latitude to tailor their own result to their own circumstance. Again I commend the WJ pilots on their decision, recognize they have some trust to build, but look forward to the vital contribution they have to the betterment of the profession nationally and intentionally.
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FenceSitter
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by FenceSitter »

Bede wrote:FYI for everyone: Rotten Apple and NewCommercialPilot are the same guy.
LMFAO!!!!! To be clear, same human, same employee number, same affinity for speaking with a false German accent over the PA within days of Germanwings 9525, the same human who was saying to "run, not walk" to sign a card less than 6 months ago, the very same.... on all counts. One guy with AT LEAST two accounts on here...talking to himself. It is digital masturbation for everyone else to see. Enjoy the show, not my cup of tea though.
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tsgas
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by tsgas »

this has been a real tailwind for the AC shares. thanks for the windfall.
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Airbrake
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by Airbrake »

tsgas wrote:this has been a real tailwind for the AC shares. thanks for the windfall.
I'd say the WJA shares have benefited as well.
Not the same % but still have just about passed the high in the last 2 years.
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brooks
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by brooks »

I must say I wish I didn't sell at $13, I am quite jealous. WJ might get back up in the high 20s by fall.
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iflyroads
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by iflyroads »

Has encore gone ALPA as well or are they trying to still?
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Transonic
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by Transonic »

tsgas wrote:this has been a real tailwind for the AC shares. thanks for the windfall.
It is WJA that is riding the tailwind.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report- ... e35572847/
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tsgas
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by tsgas »

wrong . you don't know much about the TSX
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Transonic
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by Transonic »

tsgas wrote:wrong . you don't know much about the TSX
No?

On Jul 5th AC announced there would be a greater than expected Q2 result. WJA closed the previous day at 23.54. On, Jul 5th it reached 24.34 after breaking through a key resistance level of 23.50. WJA spent 9 months bouncing off that resistance level. It peaked at 25.88 on the 7th day after the breakout.

Please tsgas, enlighten us.
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Mach1
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by Mach1 »

I see they are going with the strategy I predicted they would go with. Drag it out as long as possible.
Turan Quettawala

Great. Thank you very much. And I guess just one more question that I guess we’re getting from investors here for sure in terms of the unionization, can you talk a little bit about what’s happening over the pilots’ union now? What the next steps are? And also maybe if you can talk a little bit about other employee groups that are planned to unionize as well within the next year or so? Thank you.

Gregg Saretsky

Yes, So, Turan, it’s a process that’s prescribed by the CIRB, and one that is well understood by all parties. We will be starting that negotiation with ALPA in September. It’s a process that can go for quite a long time; JetBlue in United States has gone four years without its first ALPA agreement. So we expect that to be a lengthy negotiating period and no impact to 2017 or 2018.
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I'm going to knock this up a notch with my spice weasle. Bam!
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by JBI »

Mach1 wrote:I see they are going with the strategy I predicted they would go with. Drag it out as long as possible.
It’s a process that can go for quite a long time; JetBlue in United States has gone four years without its first ALPA agreement. So we expect that to be a lengthy negotiating period and no impact to 2017 or 2018.
While I don't necessarily disagree with you - I think WestJet will negotiate extremely hard for the first CBA with all the other employee groups watching what happens with the pilots. There's only so much you can read in to comments made in a conference call with analysts. They instantly equate a unionized pilot group with higher labour costs and labour strife. I see this comment as trying to assuage their fears, especially for the upcoming year where WestJet continues to have some pretty high costs with a number of aircraft orders on the way.

WestJet pilots are under a very different legislative framework with regard to negotiating the first CBA which I understand has a little more stringent timelines for negotiating the first agreement. However, the reference to JetBlue should also calm investors fears over labour strife as JetBlue has, generally speaking, continued to be successful even during initial labour negotiations with the pilot group.
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rudder
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by rudder »

Saretsky either intentionally misled or was not aware of the different Labour Code provisions that apply in Canada vs the RLA in the U.S.

Does not portend well for the process.
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Longtimer
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by Longtimer »

rudder wrote:Saretsky either intentionally misled or was not aware of the different Labour Code provisions that apply in Canada vs the RLA in the U.S.

Does not portend well for the process.
The following may be of interest, note the highlighted area.

Collective Bargaining

Once a union has been certified or voluntarily recognized, the employer and the union must meet in an attempt to reach a collective agreement. The employer must respect the statutory freeze period and cannot change the terms and conditions of employment for its employees until an agreement has been reached voluntarily, until there is a lockout or strike, or pursuant to the arbitration provisions in the legislation.

The collective agreement is a contract setting out the terms and conditions of employees in the bargaining unit. Once ratified, it becomes a legally enforceable and binding contract. It normally has a defined term and is subject to re-negotiation on a pre-determined schedule. Unless the legislation otherwise specifies, the agreement usually states whether it will expire at the end of the term, until it is re-negotiated, or whether it will continue in full force and effect until a renewal agreement is reached.

As soon as a union represents the employee, the employee and the employer cannot negotiate with each other over individual terms and conditions of employment. The union is the sole and exclusive bargaining agent for the employees it represents. The employer must deal with the appointed union representatives.
http://hrcouncil.ca/hr-toolkit/policies ... t.cfm#sec4
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