WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

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Mach1
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by Mach1 »

I understand the current agreement is frozen. The implication for the company is that there will be no increase in labour costs as long as they can hold off negotiating a new contract. I know there is a limit on how long the company can stall before it is taken to arbitration (which is a bit of a coin toss in itself) but, I have found no limitation on how long it can stay in arbitration.

Conclusion: It could be a really long time before anyone sees a raise.
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CaptainHaddock
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by CaptainHaddock »

I believe once they start the negotiations they only have one year to complete them in canada, if they fail it comes to a mediator, then arbitrator. So no dragging on for 4 years. I don't think either side wants it to go that long even.
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by Mach1 »

CaptainHaddock wrote: if they fail it comes to a mediator, then arbitrator. So no dragging on for 4 years. I don't think either side wants it to go that long even.
But no rules on how long it can stay in arbitration... not that I can find... and a question everyone avoids answering when I ask it.
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by moe »

Delta contract pls
Thanks
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NewCommercialPilot
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by NewCommercialPilot »

Less than 24% of the eligible 529 members of the YYZ LEC bothered to vote for their Captain and FO representative, and I understand YYC had a similar amount of engagement. It was these same LEC reps from the three bases who then "chose" the MEC positions. I'm curious as to the apathy. Is it buyer's remorse. And how legitimate are the MEC members given the apathy?

Cheers

John
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by RRJetPilot »

NewCommercialPilot wrote:Less than 24% of the eligible 529 members of the YYZ LEC bothered to vote for their Captain and FO representative, and I understand YYC had a similar amount of engagement. It was these same LEC reps from the three bases who then "chose" the MEC positions. I'm curious as to the apathy. Is it buyer's remorse. And how legitimate are the MEC members given the apathy?

Cheers

John
Is your goal to divide your own pilot group?

ALPA is here to represent pilots nation wide and improve working conditions and wages. And protect us. I seem to remember hearing you were calling for protection once? What made you change your tune?

I don't comment much but In my opinion of your posts you are a disgrace to the pilot community.

Maybe stick to bragging about your stupid wing suit adventures.
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by Schooner69A »

RRJP


“Is your goal to divide your own pilot group?”

I think he’s highlighting that this may already have happened? What’s your take on the situation? What could have caused the poor turn-out?


“I don't comment much but In my opinion of your posts you are a disgrace to the pilot community.”

To which pilot community do you refer? If it’s the 604 group, that’s a terrible thing to say. However, if it’s any other group, that’s a pretty mild rebuke… Do you want to know my opinion of someone who attacks a poster without offering any comment on the subject post? Gormless comes to mind… Look up “ad hominem”


"Maybe stick to bragging about your stupid wing suit adventures."

The use of the word “stupid” in the phrase “…stupid wing suit…” reminds me of my four-year old daughter sputtering at her five-year old brother when she did not have the vocabulary to utter anything else.
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by Ex DC10 Driver »

I agree with New Commercial Pilot's observation. There is definitely apathy taking place. Some LEC members were 'elected' by acclimation due to very few of the 1500 pilots volunteering to run for an elected position. However regardless of the turn out they are legitimate as they were elected. If they turn out to underperform people's expectations, those who did not vote or opt to run themselves have no right to complain.
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NewCommercialPilot
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by NewCommercialPilot »

Ha! Amusing. As if anything I could post here could divide WJ pilots. What a poor use of the logic part of a breathing human being's brain.

Another point: how is it that the promoters and organizers of ALPA who divided the pilot group were also not disgraceful? The definition of a double standard...

Anyhow every day brings us closer to a de-certification vote. Sub 25% voter participation is something that the WJPA never experienced.

Oh, the latest thing I'm crowing about is my 28,000 foot skydive in Tennessee a few weeks back. Check out my YouTube channel for the highlights of that jump. Next year's goal is a jump from 39,000 feet. Stay tuned!

Captain Fan-freaking-tastic
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rxl
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by rxl »

NewCommercialPilot wrote: Oh, the latest thing I'm crowing about is my 28,000 foot skydive in Tennessee a few weeks back. Check out my YouTube channel for the highlights of that jump. Next year's goal is a jump from 39,000 feet. Stay tuned!

Captain Fan-freaking-tastic
Speaking of the "poor use of the logic part of a breathing human being's brain" ...
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by mantogasrsrwy »

rxl wrote:
NewCommercialPilot wrote: Oh, the latest thing I'm crowing about is my 28,000 foot skydive in Tennessee a few weeks back. Check out my YouTube channel for the highlights of that jump. Next year's goal is a jump from 39,000 feet. Stay tuned!

Captain Fan-freaking-tastic
Speaking of the "poor use of the logic part of a breathing human being's brain" ...
Do you see the irony in your post? I do.
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True North
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by True North »

The apathy is very interesting but I don't see a de-certification vote coming any time soon - too much apathy. :roll:

The pro ALPA gang won their campaign on a lot of promises, now they have to deliver on those promises and good luck with that. I've talked to lots of WJ guys over the last few months and I absolutely cannot believe what they bought into. Of course unions always promise the moon but the fact that a bunch of allegedly intelligent individuals bought their story is quite frankly, shocking.

I will make a couple of predictions; the first CBA negotiated for the WJ pilots by ALPA will be a concessionary contract. They will go backwards. WJ management is going to send a signal to all the other employee groups that are thinking about unionizing and the message won't be pretty. There isn't a hope in hell that ALPA, or any union for that matter, will be able to deliver on even half of the promises they made. This will go to arbitration - guaranteed, and the pilots will lose in arbitration.

Going to be very interesting to watch.
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by jjj »

I’ll take the bet that the company will not want to have this go on forever.

We currently have a contract to a minimum of 77.5 hours a month in a 16 day max. I’ll take that deal under the new duty regs kick in and they can only get 68 hours of productivity. They will have a bird and frankly being dying to have a little sit down.

If that doesn’t do it then when they can’t run the ULCC properly - they’ll be dying to chat.

When Encore starts parking airplanes - they’ll want to chat.

That is the tip of the iceberg over the next couple years and I like the odds.
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by True North »

If all that is true then why do you need ALPA?
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by Nwtflier »

To have the guidance and backing of a pilot ran Union over an association that was bargaining with a loaded deck.
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jjj
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by jjj »

True North wrote:If all that is true then why do you need ALPA?
In my opinion the WJPA was overwhelmed and I had little faith that they would have extracted enough value from our leveraged position. Frankly - I don't think they even knew they had a leveraged position or what to do with it otherwise.

Either way - it's a done deal now.

Time will tell all.

Cheers.

JJJ
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by .80@410 »

Couldn't be happier since ALPA showed up.

Sounds like they have a plan when Greg tries to cut wages for the ULCC too.

And Yup send it to arbitration! Good luck trying to convince an arbitrator that a company making money with a billion in the bank needs concessions from the most productive pilots in N . America.

Want a prediction ? Better times ahead boys n girls .
5 years of rolling over have ended :))
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by complexintentions »

You are clearly a disloyal "owner".

Must. Recalibrate. Selection. Process.
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by NewCommercialPilot »

I wonder why .80 is so happy. No work terms have changed. Zero. But I am glad that he or she is so happy about there being plans in place.

Plans. Too many aphorisms dealing with "plans" to choose from so I won't. As I drive by the picket line at YYZ tomorrow I'll ask the strikers how their plans are going. Last month I heard the chubby black guy in the ball cap tell the driver ahead of me taht they had the company just where they want them. It was all part of the plan.

Less than 25% of WJ YYC and YYZ pilots bothered to vote for their new ALPA reps. Perhaps 75+% of the pilots at those two bases are happy with the plans too.
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Re: WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

Post by Mach1 »

Very lovely side conversation about it all but, is no one going to answer my question? No one at all? What if I said please?

Is there a time limit on how long negotiations can stay in arbitration?

With so many experts, someone must know the answer to that question... and why is everyone avoiding answering it?
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