PT6onH20 wrote:Umm...I didn't ask a yes/ no question.pacman007 wrote:Nope...don't think ALPA will let that happen.
Do you think that OTS is done?
I don't know WestJet specifically, but hiring remains the prerogative of management. They can hire as they see fit, the Union ensures the conditions under which you work once you arrive. So if it suits Westjet to hire OTS, then they will continue to do so.
My two cents anyways.
In the short term, the answer is no. There is a statutory freeze on working conditions once a group of employees unionizes and again once the union indicates an intention to bargain for a new CBA. The current hiring has been for a mix of Encore and OTS candidates and it should remain so.cdnpilot77 wrote:How does it affect the seniority list though? 2015 Encore hire has seniority over a 2016 Mainline hire when the encore pilot flows over, do they not? Does ALPA now change that dynamic?
In the long run, it depends what gets negotiated between the pilots and the company. Both sides have generally expressed a desire to keep the "one list" as it now stands. However, there are a lot of moving parts and variables. Losing the "one list" would, in my opinion, drastically reduce the number of applicants for Encore and would likely lead to an exodus of current Encore pilots.
Although nothing is guaranteed, I would be surprised to see a significant change from the status quo with regard to the one list.
Just to illustrate how out of touch "newCommercialPilot" is, the min is 50%. Keep up the fear mongering. You'd think, that with the way things are, despite our leanings, you'd get on board with the majority to, at least, try to maintain what you've got. NewCommercialPilot, you are treading very dangerous waters, and your antics are endangering everything you've fought so hard for. Despite what you may think, everyone is fighting for the same thing.NewCommercialPilot wrote:Subject to Encore having the ability to release pilots to flow to WJ, the commitment from WJ is to hire at least 25% from Encore. Having ALPA on the property changes none of that. The biggest impact will come from the number of qualified applicants Encore can attract. If experience goes down, it will be harder to release pilots to flow while keeping the Q400's flying.
I agree. The minimum 50% flow from Encore will keep people applying there even if they start at mainline at the bottom. Which I do think will happen.atphat wrote:The one list is separate from flow. I seriously doubt applicants would dry up for encore if they went BOTL at WJ.
Good points. If there was flow but it went to BOTL, applicants wouldn't dry up as much, but I think you'd see a reduction in more experienced pilots applying for the direct entry Capt spots. The ability to upgrade on the jet is definitely a factor considered for the higher time applicants.Jimmy2 wrote:I agree. The minimum 50% flow from Encore will keep people applying there even if they start at mainline at the bottom. Which I do think will happen.atphat wrote:The one list is separate from flow. I seriously doubt applicants would dry up for encore if they went BOTL at WJ.
As far as treading dangerous waters, you have no idea what that is like until you have jumped off a 500 foot bridge wearing a BASE rig.
Keep up the ad hominem attacks though, I'm starting to get off on them.
There is a much quicker upgrade available at AC.atphat wrote:No one is going to WJ for a quick upgrade JBI. They'll have the better part of a decade or even more to think about it.
So it must have changed John.
I believe WJE will be calling with offers for its 1st class in Feb today and tomorrow.
WJ's first class in January was offered earlier this week with the second class in January being offered next week - towards the end.
As for a WJ posting, we still don't see a reason to open the posting in the near future.(maybe not in 2016 at all) With flow increasing in the new agreement to 50% minimum (should it be voted in with the new pilot agreement in hand at WJE) we have enough recently interviewed pilots to supply the 2016 direct entry to WJ demand - as our next course isn't scheduled until April. Subject to change as usual!
Well, if you mean get rid of Encore flow pilots keeping their DOH, then there are 150-200 OTS pilot hired since 2014 who would recommend that avenue. If you flowed from Encore you would not. ALPA's DOH policy was designed to eliminate controversy down the road in event of a merger, and their merger policy reflects that as well.Maritimer wrote:Get rid of date of hire and keep flow, increase it even. BOTL for flow guys. It is the only way there won't be major problems down the road.
ALPA will strongly encourage WJ MEC to adopt a traditional DOH policy, even if it means making it seem, through surveys, that it is the will of the majority that will bring in that policy. I'm not sure what the majority of WJ pilots would give up in terms of negotiating power in order to maintain the One List. The union members will likely follow traditional thought patterns of what it's in it for me. It's already shown up in ways that would not have under the WJPA.
On the other hand, if the One List suffers its demise under ALPA's first CBA, then ALPA will have motivated a group of ready made de-certification supporters ready to pull the trigger as soon as they get the chance. That group would get larger with each class, but would be offset by OTS hires who would love true DOH.
And if you try to go against 61 year old ALPA Executive Board policy and keep the One List, you are looking at legal challenges from the OTS cohort. Not that I think that the ALPA President would ever allow such a thing (One List in a CBA).
If Encore pilots certify, they will most certainly would lose the support of management in pressing for the One List. If the Encore pilots remain unorganized, management might feel a duty to press for the One List in negotiations with the WJ pilots. Certify, and they are likely not to have any motivation one way or the other.
That's how it looks from this perch.
Priceless.noalternative wrote:Just to illustrate how out of touch "newCommercialPilot" is, the min is 50%. Keep up the fear mongering. You'd think, that with the way things are, despite our leanings, you'd get on board with the majority to, at least, try to maintain what you've got. NewCommercialPilot, you are treading very dangerous waters, and your antics are endangering everything you've fought so hard for. Despite what you may think, everyone is fighting for the same thing.
Once the bargaining begins for your first CBA, you come back and tell us that again. I have talked to about a dozen WJ pilots since the vote, they were split right down the middle on the seniority issue. Just one tiny indicator.
Good luck. You're going to need it.
Nonsense. They'd hate the company, not ALPA. The company needs the one list more than the pilots do. Without it, recruitment would all but dry up. They have a hard enough time recruiting qualified guys. Where would they go? Anywhere these days.Jean-Pierre wrote:If I was management I would cancel one list today. That way 50% of pilot joining mainline hate ALPA. Best way to bust the union. Sure Encore pilot are threatening to quit without it but realistically where are they going to go?
Such as? Give up their place in line for flow and start all over again at Jazz? Go back up north with no future?Bede wrote: Where would they go? Anywhere these days.
I'm sure they have all already applied to AC and other big jet operator already and have failed or are still waiting. One list was just a bonus anyway not a reason anybody made their decision to join Encore on. It is flow that matter.