Encore hiring 1500 hour Captains now?

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Encore hiring 1500 hour Captains now?

#1 Post by Black_Tusk » Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:00 am

As per the ad... ??


Captain - Pilot - WestJet Encore Calgary/Toronto (Job ID 52871)
Qualifications (the following minimum qualifications are required prior to offer of employment):
•Legally entitled to work in Canada
•Transport Canada Airline Transport Pilot’s License (ATPL)
•1500 hours total time (fixed-wing preferred)
•250 hours fixed-wing pilot-in-command time (multi-engine or high performance single engine turbine PIC preferred)
•250 hours fixed-wing multi-engine time (high performance single engine multi-crew turbine can be included towards your multi-engine experience ie. PC-12)
•250 hours multi-crew experience
•Q400 experience is an asset (relatable hours on similar aircraft will be considered i.e. Dash 8/ATR, etc.)
•Valid Transport Canada Group 1 instrument rating
•Valid Transport Canada Class 1 medical certificate
•High School diploma
•Oral and written proficiency in English
•Valid passport:
•If the passport is issued by a country other than Canada the following documents are required:
A valid Canadian Permanent Resident Card
All visas necessary to operate within WestJet’s network
•Restricted Area Identification Card (RAIC) obtained prior to the completion of Initial Ground School
•As per our Alcohol and Drug Policy all offers of employment are conditional on passing a pre-employment alcohol and drug screening test.

Candidates with less than the required DHC-8-400 can apply a credit of 50% for time flown in Transport Category (705) aircraft other than the DHC-8-400. The intent is to allow experience in an operation similar to that of WestJet Encore to be used toward DHC-8-400 totals. Half of any experience on aircraft such as a DHC-8-100/300, ATR or RJ may be used. Second Officer/ Flight Engineer time does not qualify for this program.

Desirable Assets:
•Scheduled airline and/or military flight experience
•Glass cockpit and/or FMS experience
•Post-secondary education
•Proficient in a second language
•Internal WestJet and/or WestJet Encore referral
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Re: Encore hiring 1500 hour Captains now?

#2 Post by Alcoholism » Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:58 am

What's your point? You're at Jazz right? I hear there's freshly minted ATPL captains there, as there is no minimum requirement aside from an ATPL
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Re: Encore hiring 1500 hour Captains now?

#3 Post by JBI » Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:47 am

No, Encore is not hiring 1500 hour Captains. Encore has lowered the minimum requirements for employment for First Officers (removed the requirement to have an ATPL amongst other items). The job ad on AvCanada does not list the matrix however, as is stated in the job ad linked on the WJ website, Captain qualifications are necessary as per the following matrix:
Captain Qualifications:

The following minimum flight time is required for all applicants to be considered for a captain position.
Total Time.......DHC-8-400 Time Required
4000+................500
3500...................750
3000..................1000
2500..................1250
2000..................1500

Candidates with less than the required DHC-8-400 can apply a credit of 50% for time flown in Transport Category (705) aircraft other than the DHC-8-400. The intent is to allow experience in an operation similar to that of WestJet Encore to be used toward DHC-8-400 totals. Half of any experience on aircraft such as a DHC-8-100/300, ATR or RJ may be used. Second Officer/ Flight Engineer time does not qualify for this program.
There are no 1500 Hour Q400 Captains at Encore.
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Re: Encore hiring 1500 hour Captains now?

#4 Post by '97 Tercel » Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:41 pm

Yet
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Re: Encore hiring 1500 hour Captains now?

#5 Post by Jean-Pierre » Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:59 pm

It say all your PIC time can be in single engine turbine too. You can be a direct entry Q400 Captain with 0 multi-PIC.

Too bad about "minimum of twenty-one years of age" rule of ATPL. Otherwise you could theoretically get a PC-12 F/O job at 18, advance to Captain and get your 250 PIC, and then be a Encore Captain all while still a teenager.
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Re: Encore hiring 1500 hour Captains now?

#6 Post by JBI » Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:19 pm

Jean-Pierre wrote:It say all your PIC time can be in single engine turbine too. You can be a direct entry Q400 Captain with 0 multi-PIC.

Too bad about "minimum of twenty-one years of age" rule of ATPL. Otherwise you could theoretically get a PC-12 F/O job at 18, advance to Captain and get your 250 PIC, and then be a Encore Captain all while still a teenager.
No... you cannot. Read the other posts.
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Re: Encore hiring 1500 hour Captains now?

#7 Post by mbav8r » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:04 am

JBI, unless you are management from Encore, how can you say with certainty they are not currently looking at lower qualifications now, there is a lack of supply of experienced pilots willing to work for the pay on offer. Companies are changing their requirements because lower experience is better than parking airplanes or raising wages to them. I don't know what Canadian companies will do when green cards are made available to us.
I heard the other day and of course it's hearsay, Horizon was in Canada recruiting and had green cards, was offering 75g for Q FOs and a 2 year path to Alaskan, if this is true things are going to get interesting up here.
This is from the Captain ad,
•Transport Canada Airline Transport Pilot’s License (ATPL)
•1500 hours total time (fixed-wing preferred)
•250 hours fixed-wing pilot-in-command time (multi-engine or high performance single engine turbine PIC preferred)
•250 hours fixed-wing multi-engine time (high performance single engine multi-crew turbine can be included towards your multi-engine experience ie. PC-12)
•250 hours multi-crew experience
•Q400 experience is an asset (relatable hours on similar aircraft will be considered i.e. Dash 8/ATR, etc.)

This is from the FO ad,
Transport Canada Airline Transport Pilot’s License (ATPL) is preferred
•1000 hours total time (fixed-wing preferred)
•200 hours fixed-wing pilot-in-command time (multi-engine or high performance single engine turbine PIC preferred)
•250 hours fixed-wing multi-engine time is preferred (high performance single engine multi-crew turbine can be included towards your multi-engine experience ie. PC-12)
•250 hours multi-crew experience is preferred
•Valid Transport Canada Group 1 instrument rating
•Valid Transport Canada Class 1 medical certificate
•Completion of either the IATRA or the SAMRA AND SARON
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Re: Encore hiring 1500 hour Captains now?

#8 Post by CZBBYYZPilot » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:38 am

mbav8r wrote:I heard the other day and of course it's hearsay, Horizon was in Canada recruiting and had green cards, was offering 75g for Q FOs and a 2 year path to Alaskan, if this is true things are going to get interesting up here.
Anybody else hear this? That sounds too good to be true!
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Re: Encore hiring 1500 hour Captains now?

#9 Post by ARGO » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:46 am

I've heard of some pretty good people (with a fair amount of experience) get the PFO from places like Encore/Jazz. I get it, some people just aren't a great fit. Or maybe some just interview poorly. Regardless, this shortage problem can't be that bad if the beggars are still being choosers (and are not really beggars after all).
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Re: Encore hiring 1500 hour Captains now?

#10 Post by JBI » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:41 am

mbav8r wrote:JBI, unless you are management from Encore, how can you say with certainty they are not currently looking at lower qualifications now, there is a lack of supply of experienced pilots willing to work for the pay on offer. Companies are changing their requirements because lower experience is better than parking airplanes or raising wages to them. I don't know what Canadian companies will do when green cards are made available to us.
I heard the other day and of course it's hearsay, Horizon was in Canada recruiting and had green cards, was offering 75g for Q FOs and a 2 year path to Alaskan, if this is true things are going to get interesting up here.
This is from the Captain ad,
...
Hi mbav8r,

You make a good point about the different minimums for the Captain posting and the FO posting. I am not management at Encore (nor any other operator) but do have a good working relationship with various companies' management. I am not exactly certain why there is the distinction between minimums for the Captain and FO positions, but will discuss below.

All of the regionals are beginning to see the effects of the pilot shortage. Air Canada is continuing to hire en masse to make up for the wave of retirements combined with a gradual decrease of people entering the profession. Encore has reduced its ATPL requirement for FOs, Jazz has been recruiting directly from the flight colleges for a few years now and not just for folks who have been awarded scholarships. Porter has been very forward thinking with their recruitment of FOs with lower time experience. I personally know of low time pilots who have been hired directly out of college or direct from an instructing position to the right seat on a Q400, Classic Dash or RJ. After being in the industry for almost 20 years, this still boggles my mind!

Unlike at Porter or Jazz (at the moment), Encore has direct entry Captain openings and this has been offered through a separate job posting than the FO openings. Also, unlike at Jazz, while upgrades at Encore are based on seniority, they are also based on meeting the qualifications set out in the upgrade matrix still listed on the Captain posting on the WestJet website. At the moment all current FOs, or direct entry Captains, must meet the upgrade matrix.

For example, if an FO has 3000 hours total time, they need to have 1000 hours of Q400 or equivalent time to be upgraded. Therefore, right now, an Encore FO is eligible to start the upgrade as soon as they meet the matrix (and have acceptable job performance) even if there are FOs senior to them who do not meet the matrix. My understanding for Jazz is that once an FO has obtained their ATPL, upgrade is based solely on seniority (and training performance). I am uncertain if Porter has experience requirements for Captain upgrades, but I do understand that there are and/or have been FOs who haven't been able to upgrade based on seniority at their desired base (i.e. YHZ) despite significant experience.

Encore now has approximately 40 aircraft. Like Jazz, they have done a huge amount of hiring in the last year and up until very recently, all FOs were required to have an ATPL. Presumably then, there are approximately 200 FOs with an ATPL (and thus over 1500 hours), that do not yet meet the matrix and are not eligible to be upgraded to Captain at Encore. There would be a mutiny if suddenly Encore were to allow new direct entry Captains who do not meet the matrix.

A direct entry Captain would have to meet the matrix in order to be upgraded. As is outlined above, the minimum allowance for upgrade as per the matrix is 2000 TT with 1500 hours on a Q400 or equivalent. It should be noted that in the matrix posted on the WestJet job posting, there is no indication of 250 PIC hours being required. It used to be that the direct entry Captain posting was only for the YYZ base, however, a little while ago it was opened for the YYC base as well. One can surmise that they are having trouble attracting enough qualified applicants for the direct entry Captain positions.

My educated guess is that like many of the online hiring portals, if one doesn't meet all the criteria of a job posting, it simply rejects a candidate. Therefore, in order to make sure there are not any potentially suitable candidates automatically rejected and/or dissuaded from applying based on previous additional hours requirements (I seem to recall a requirement for 500 PIC hours even for FOs, but I am uncertain), creating a lower threshold for additional applications to be viewed may widen the pool for additional candidates that may meet the matrix, but may not have met other criteria.

So, in response to the title of the thread: No, Encore is not hiring 1500 hour Captains right now. Any FO or direct entry Captain still has to meet the upgrade matrix. The minimum time is 2000 hours with 1500 hours Q400 time or equivalent.

Will Encore (or any other regional for that matter) continue to look for lower time candidates? You bet! I don't know the entire history of the upgrade matrix at Encore or the specific upgrade tests at Jazz or Porter, but I have no doubt we'll see lower experienced Captains being upgraded as Air Canada continues its hiring.

As for the US and airlines offering Green Cards - a company cannot offer a "Green Card". A Green Card is permanent residency in the US. Companies can offer to apply for a visa for a particular individual, the varieties of US visas and which ones are and are not eligible towards obtaining permanent residency status is extensive.

Could US regional airlines start offering to apply for visas for Canadian pilots? For sure, but it is an expensive, time consuming and political process. I have not heard of any US regionals that currently do not require the legal right to work in the US as part of their hiring criteria (and I am currently living in the US and do have the right to work here). Most of the US regional applications go through a website called AirlineApps and you have to have a US Social Security Number in order to even apply. Doesn't mean it won't happen in the future or hasn't already happened, but I don't think we're at that point yet (I am happy to be corrected though).

One thing to keep in mind with Part 121 flying in the US. In order to upgrade, FOs need to have 1000 hours part 121 time or part 91 (fractional ownership in jet aircraft) time. It has to be for a US operator. So as the law is currently written, someone with 2000 hours Q400 time in Canada, isn't eligible to be a Q400 Captain in the US.
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Re: Encore hiring 1500 hour Captains now?

#11 Post by Jean-Pierre » Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:23 pm

The job ad just went up two day ago. To say they are not hiring 1500 hour Captain right now is of course true because it takes time for the application to be processed and people to be interviewed.
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Re: Encore hiring 1500 hour Captains now?

#12 Post by DaveP » Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:24 pm

Well put together JBI!
As for the direct entry positions, I can only recall people with approximately 3500 - 4500 hrs coming in for interviews there.
Cheers
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Re: Encore hiring 1500 hour Captains now?

#13 Post by mbav8r » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:11 am

DaveP wrote:Well put together JBI!
As for the direct entry positions, I can only recall people with approximately 3500 - 4500 hrs coming in for interviews there.
Cheers
Hi Dave,
The past interviews withstanding, are they still getting applicants with that amount of time applying for the direct entry job?
A couple years back I was talking with someone in management at Jazz and at that point we were interviewing candidates with 3000 hours on their second or even third attempt because the pool of new applications with higher experience was starting to dry up at that point. Now, it appears that some operators are offering 100g to retain King air captains, might be hard to find 3000 hour pilots willing to work for 60-70.
I'm curious, what is the starting pay for left seat, I believe it was 58/hr at start up, has it improved significantly from there?
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Re: Encore hiring 1500 hour Captains now?

#14 Post by '97 Tercel » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:10 am

I think the Encore pay is posted about 38 times throughout this website.
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Re: Encore hiring 1500 hour Captains now?

#15 Post by Rowdy » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:33 pm

'97 Tercel wrote:I think the Encore pay is posted about 38 times throughout this website.
:mrgreen: :prayer: :rolleyes:
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Re: Encore hiring 1500 hour Captains now?

#16 Post by mbav8r » Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:54 pm

'97 Tercel wrote:I think the Encore pay is posted about 38 times throughout this website.
Took you the same energy to post that as it would have to just post it.
I think I'll be able to pick you out in the crewroom, Rowdy
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Re: Encore hiring 1500 hour Captains now?

#17 Post by flyinhigh » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:56 pm

Avg direct enter TT is still around 6500, and FOs is around the 2800 mark.
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Re: Encore hiring 1500 hour Captains now?

#18 Post by mbav8r » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:26 am

Wow, that's great, do you think having a proper flow is the main reason for getting experience?
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Re: Encore hiring 1500 hour Captains now?

#19 Post by Black_Tusk » Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:03 pm

Lots of people getting hired at Encore with 1500 hours.
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Re: Encore hiring 1500 hour Captains now?

#20 Post by Gear Jerker » Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:17 pm

True, but the average remains as posted above. While drastic changes may not be far off, for the time being I would assume that Encore hires, on average, much more experienced pilots than Jazz or Porter.

Things aren't perfect but the mudslinging generalizations about Encore due to the WAWCON at the beginning are simply not true.

A friend of a friend is working 13 days this month..
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Re: Encore hiring 1500 hour Captains now?

#21 Post by Mr. North » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:44 pm

I wouldn't rely too much on the "average hours" people toss around. All it takes is one 18,000 hour captain for everything to be skewed. And these old guys still seem to be trickling in. Whatever the averages are, they are trending down.

Sure some FO's work 13 days a month. But this is quite variable, and I can assure you anyone in the left seat is flying their bag off (19-20 days/month).
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Re: Encore hiring 1500 hour Captains now?

#22 Post by DaveP » Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:56 pm

I can confirm the averages are pretty tight to those numbers.
Mudslinging or not - it's a pretty good place to work. I still remember having 8 or 9 thousand hours trying to get on a regional carrier of this caliber in the mid nineties. Oh how the times have changed!
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Re: Encore hiring 1500 hour Captains now?

#23 Post by '97 Tercel » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:05 am

A friend of a friend is working 13 days this month..
Haha, how could it not be true then?
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Re: Encore hiring 1500 hour Captains now?

#24 Post by vrefplus5 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:40 am

DaveP, amen to that! I remember qualified 7000hr pilots that couldn't even get an FO job on a PA31!! The experience pendulum has sure swung around for young pilots today. Their rise through the present opportunities is meteoric relative to someone who started in '85, and myself and those of my ilk are still amazed at the positive upward swing in their good fortune. A great time to be a young and ambitious aviator for sure.
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Re: Encore hiring 1500 hour Captains now?

#25 Post by V1 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:55 pm

ARGO wrote:I've heard of some pretty good people (with a fair amount of experience) get the PFO from places like Encore/Jazz. I get it, some people just aren't a great fit. Or maybe some just interview poorly. Regardless, this shortage problem can't be that bad if the beggars are still being choosers (and are not really beggars after all).

Westjet has a business model if you haven't noticed that they aren't diverting from. I am not sure if you have flown with people that are kind of jerks, power trippers, racists lol you get my point, we don't want them. Yes some don't make the cut but they usually do. The HR department is incredible 99% of the time.
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