Encore ALPA vote??

[V1]

The thing about Encore is it has a pool of pilots who may have never had a union experience or airline experience before. Almost all those that have had union experiences before are quite negative about the union, and the ones from say Calm Air are the only ones that seem positive about it.
You are only as good as your representation period.

There is absolutely NO rush to unionize and join the brothers and sisters in unity or whatever fear mongering with seniority lists go which insultingly happens from WJ pilots, every thing is based completely on the results the WJ survey which no one will see anytime soon. Both sides have promised verbally and in writing to protect the one list. If either side decides to not do that, that is when things will get dirty. The WJPA has a bank of money to protect those rights, if ALPA comes in that money gets donated to a charity. As a reason to join ALPA could get messy if Encore jumps on that bandwagon before negotiations start, and then the Westjet pilots agree to not protect it based on their survey results.. where does that Unity go? There is none, and they are part of the same organization. Following people blindly is probably the worst decision anyone could ever make. Do you really want to spend the union dues that you are borrowing anyways in the first year suing each other?

As many others have said on here, if the seniority/one list is in the WJ agreement there is absolutely nothing to grieve. Pilots who come off the street know exactly what they are signing up for so for them to even try to change that shows you really what kind of person they are, not someone you want to be flying with. This is the unity that unions talk so proudly of..

One list is in the contract, and in the current agreements, business model etc.

Whichever way the pilots decide to go there is no rush. The fear mongering from WJ pilots is ridiculous and not a reason to join ALPA but they still continue to do it, if anything is ultimately has turned many people off.

[rudder]

Here is what the Encore pilots need to understand - the WJ pilot seniority list is the property of the WJ pilots. It will be dealt with in the seniority section of the CBA.If they codify the reserved number system then the numbers are safe. If they choose not to, then their is no recourse for the Encore pilots.

WJ needs this arrangement for Encore pilot recruitment and retention so the WJ pilots will be wise to derive maximum benefit for preserving it in the CBA.

[JBI]

Here is what the Encore pilots need to understand - the WJ pilot seniority list is the property of the WJ pilots. It will be dealt with in the seniority section of the CBA.If they codify the reserved number system then the numbers are safe. If they choose not to, then their is no recourse for the Encore pilots.

Yes!

Finally, after all the other incorrect statements I was getting cranky. I do think the vast majority of the Encore pilots understand that it's up to the WJ pilots to negotiate seniority (the majority of AvCanadians not so much).

Considering there are more Encore pilots that have flowed to WJ than there are OTS candidates at WJ (since Encore started), I would be surprised if there was a direction to not permit Encore DOH. However, if seniority is not negotiated to include the current date of hire at Encore, while there isn't necessarily recourse to Encore pilots to gain that seniority back, per se, there are a number of options moving forward. For example, if there isn't Date of Hire, Encore would arguably have to significantly increase WAWCON if they wanted to attract and retain pilots. In addition, WestJet could choose to only hire from Encore moving forward given a de facto date of hire situation for Encore pilots (i.e. no OTS candidates to 'bump'). These are all just examples - nothing is set in stone. While I'm sure every WJ/Encore pilot would prefer to have things set in stone, that's just not the case at the moment.

So while there is some uncertainty for Encore pilots, it's not a "Sky is falling" situation as is portrayed by some of the more dramatic AvCanada prognosticators. The vast majority of Encore pilots are extremely supportive of the WestJet pilots and their negotiations and the Encore pilots have been discussing the issues in a respectful, professional manner. There is not a divided pilot group. Are things perfect? No, but they are pretty good and while I think there will continue to be a bit of uncertainty for the next little while, I do think things will get sorted out.

[flyinhigh]

I guess Jazz doesn't care about constitution either as Jimmy2 and Jean-Pierre have stated.

http://flyjazz.mediaroom.com/index.php? ... tem=122663

[Bede]

I guess Jazz doesn't care about constitution either as Jimmy2 and Jean-Pierre have stated.

http://flyjazz.mediaroom.com/index.php? ... tem=122663

Good find.

The Encore guys need to realize that they're in a win-win situation right now. If all goes well they eventually go to WJ. If things go sour they apply at AC and pretty much have a job there. Rumour has it some 14 WJE captains have AC medicals booked.

[NewCommercialPilot]

Interesting developments at Jazz ALPA. It's possible I have been proven wrong on the DOH policy issue. We will see.

[mbav8r]

I guess Jazz doesn't care about constitution either as Jimmy2 and Jean-Pierre have stated.

http://flyjazz.mediaroom.com/index.php? ... tem=122663

Good find.

The Encore guys need to realize that they're in a win-win situation right now. If all goes well they eventually go to WJ. If things go sour they apply at AC and pretty much have a job there. Rumour has it some 14 WJE captains have AC medicals booked.

Wow, that would be quite the ground school, can't imagine AC giving a crap if they took all 14 for one PIT course!

[Bede]

We did it to Jazz (and bragged about it) and now AC is about to return the favor.

[Jean-Pierre]

Minimum 12 month hiring freeze at Mainline now I hear. I hope no one was counting on a quick flow.

[Air.Field]

Minimum 12 month hiring freeze at Mainline now I hear. I hope no one was counting on a quick flow.

I don't believe that with the widebody expansion and ULCC

[DaveP]

[Bede]

Minimum 12 month hiring freeze at Mainline now I hear. I hope no one was counting on a quick flow.

I'm pretty sure that's false... Is this from any reliable source?

[Dry Guy]

Was Mainline ground school set for October cancelled? Why?

[JTrain]

Was Mainline ground school set for October cancelled? Why?

Because they had hired sufficient people!

A normal WJ newhire class would be 8-10 folks. 12 would have been considered large back in the day. There had been several large classes throughout 2017. As in 16 or so. They even squeezed the sim break time to squeeze another session worth of productivity out of our simulators (the dreaded 'E' slot, from 22h00 to 0200 - still better than the graveyard 0100-0600 that I have done in some previous jobs). This had the effect of getting more people on line sooner. And when they took a look at things a month or two ago, they realized they were ahead of where they wanted to be. So they are taking a pause. It is not the end of the world. Encore folks will flow a couple months later, and off-the-street hires will still be joining us, just two months later.

DaveP should be updating us with the 2018 plan sometime in the next month or so. FWIW, whenever those numbers come out, the last few years we always end up exceeding them. And with 787 training starting and several MAX deliveries, it should be a busy year in the WJ training world.

[Dry Guy]

Seems like the board is being cleared for ULCC training to ramp up. What percentage of ULCC pilots will be off the street hires? I imagine bringing people over from Westjet or Encore would cost the parent company double, as they have to pay to train their replacement.

[Dangerous Goods]

Minimum 12 month hiring freeze at Mainline now I hear. I hope no one was counting on a quick flow.

I'm being told there is some truth to this rumour. I haven't heard a timeline though and it's not because we're "all caught up" on mainline hiring. It's a ripple effect caused by Encore staffing issues. (Reliable source)

[jjj]

Seems like the board is being cleared for ULCC training to ramp up. What percentage of ULCC pilots will be off the street hires? I imagine bringing people over from Westjet or Encore would cost the parent company double, as they have to pay to train their replacement.

The Union has started contract negotiations with the company. One of the things mentioned was all Westjet flying (ULCC, Encore, Westjet) must be done by WestJet pilots. If those talks fail and the company ramps up the ULCC off the street - those pilots will be in a silo. They will not have stock options or an ESP program. They will not be on our seniority list and they will not have our representation. If they ever manage to make it over to the mainline - we will have a nice spot for them at the bottom of the list after all the encore peeps. No hard feelings - just BOTL.

Enjoy.

JJJ

[NewCommercialPilot]

They will not have stock options or an ESP program.

Has the company already announced the pay package for the ULCC pilots?

[littlebird]

Lol no. He's just being salty.

[Alcoholism]

They will not have stock options or an ESP program.

Has the company already announced the pay package for the ULCC pilots?

The year is soon 2018. And with the new ULCC soon to launch, pilots everywhere will climb over their dead kin to fly a worn out high density 737-600 for LS 70k RS 50k. Because, afterall, it's a friken jet!!! How cool is that! "If I drink more of this kool aid, it'll advance my career in an unknown way... because cool it's a jet!!!" "I don't care about aviation in Canada, I don't care about the guy sitting next to me, because it's a friken jet!!!"