Meet Swoop - WestJet's ultra-low-cost carrier has a name, a home and a purpose

[200Above]

Damn, I can only sign up to be a Flight Attendant or CSA so far!

[seriousflyer]

"Counldn't afford" is probably not the right choice of words to describe why they went with cheap, or basic website and marketing. Remember who "swoop" is backed by.
Unlike other ULCC companies in Canada operwting now or in near future.
I noticed Flair air is now not calling them self ULCC. I guess the fares they were offering aren't sustainable, and just low fares are realistic in this country.

[Kosiw]

Well this is indeed bothersome that Canadian pilots are becoming poverty level to the rest of the world. I'd be curious to see a list of what the mean pilot income would rank vs the globe.

Because time and time again pilots in this country (no matter the airline) have proven themselves to be cannibalistic in nature and will "eat their young" if necessary for their own advancement...there is no pilot unity in Canada.

[all_ramped_up]

Launch Swoop at the same time AC floods the projected Jetlines routes... Squash Jetlines. Fold up Swoop?

I wondered when the big two would tip their hands on their plan to take-out Jetlines before they get a foothold.

[Inverted2]

Jazz tried the exact same thing in the last round of negots with a low cost regional with an equally retarded name of "Jive" Fortunately everyone went head over heels for the half assed PML and they got what they wanted (B scale ) so they didn't need any Jive talkin'.

[complexintentions]

Tell me again why Asia and ME pays so highly for pilots and North America does not??

Because people want to live here and raise families and shit. Something thats being exploited more and more by NA airlines...

Uh, no. That's just something we say to flatter ourselves. Actually it's because the vast majority of the world's population lives in the East and is growing while the West has a largely neutral or declining birthrate. Maybe this picture will help explain better. Notice anything different between North America and Asia?



And a NG-rated captain in China can make a lot more than 150K/yr. More like at least double that when you consider the tax advantages. Not that I'm remotely interested, but let's be accurate.

Supply and demand. Same factor driving the ULCC movement. More and more people want to fly, and no one wants to pay.

[atphat]

Hate on Canadians wanting to live in Canada and raise their families here all you want. I make a pretty good living and I don’t have to live in the garbage sandbox or China. Which looks and sounds like a dream let me tell you.

Moving on....... Swoop rhymes with poop. Sounds like WJ got as much marketing buck as they payed for it. Nice.

[Boreas]

Tell me again why Asia and ME pays so highly for pilots and North America does not??

Because people want to live here and raise families and shit. Something thats being exploited more and more by NA airlines...

Uh, no. That's just something we say to flatter ourselves. Actually it's because the vast majority of the world's population lives in the East and is growing while the West has a largely neutral or declining birthrate. Maybe this picture will help explain better. Notice anything different between North America and Asia?



And a NG-rated captain in China can make a lot more than 150K/yr. More like at least double that when you consider the tax advantages. Not that I'm remotely interested, but let's be accurate.

Supply and demand. Same factor driving the ULCC movement. More and more people want to fly, and no one wants to pay.

Uh, yes. Given my current level of experience, I could go to either Asian or the ME practically tomorrow. Why haven't I? I want to have a family here! And I know several other pilots that are in the same boat.

There are pilots who are actively looking to come to Canada from overseas just to have a life (family and all) here. I personally flew with two ex-fighter pilots from France of all places, who did just that. Don't you think those guys had opportunities to go elsewhere?

Nobody is faltering anyone here. People are willing to 'pay' a premium to live in Canada... Of course there's a limit. I think we're getting damn close to it!

[skybaron]

Here we go.

From an outsider looking in, it's obvious that their proposed staffing will
likely want to come from Encore. It's a brutal blow to our industry no matter how this is sliced... unless we remain strong in our commitment to shed the bs of this industry and trying to reduce WAWCON.

The best thing for WJ Pilots right now would be to negotiate that ALL flying for the "3" companies be done solely by WJ Pilots. Same WAWCON regardless of type of aircraft. If positions have to be jockeyed within - so be it.

2 cents.

[complexintentions]

Oh relax. I was responding to someone who linked high pay elsewhere to people all clamouring to live in Canada. Hardly the case. It's just market economics in places like China. And the US, for that matter. As far as pilots "looking to come to Canada", I'd be willing to bet they've made their money elsewhere and now just want a different lifestyle - with the lower pay to go with it. Let me know how that "premium-paying" is working out.

As far as Swoop, I'll bet they have no problem at crewing their fleet.

[HansDietrich]

Hate on Canadians wanting to live in Canada and raise their families here all you want. I make a pretty good living and I don’t have to live in the garbage sandbox or China. Which looks and sounds like a dream let me tell you.

Moving on....... Swoop rhymes with poop. Sounds like WJ got as much marketing buck as they payed for it. Nice.

You're the one that "hates" on other countries dude. Everyone has a lifestyle and expectation. It's harder for Canadians to uproot and move elsewhere. For now, Canada is still (overall) one of the best countries to live in. I don't deny that. For people like myself that were not born in Canada and lived a long time elsewhere, it's easier to pick up and go. We've already been uprooted, and someone like myself, from Western Europe, we came to Canada not because our home country was as you may refer to it "a garbage______", but rather because we wanted a change, adventure or just economic opportunities. If they arise elsewhere, and are willing to put up with some of the cons they come with, then why not?

I don't think EK, Fly Dubai or anywhere else they work you to death is an option for me. I value my free time a lot more than I value money, but some people just want to go and make a quick buck, fly some top of the line heavy metal then come home and buy a house with cash (yeah, not Toronto... but Barrie maybe). Slave to the bank, slave to the Arabs... pick your poison.

Now back to Swoop... Yeah... nothing more to say. We all know how we feel, but it's not like we're sitting on the moral high horse.

[atphat]

Ok dude.

[groundpilot]

Here we go.

From an outsider looking in, it's obvious that their proposed staffing will
likely want to come from Encore. It's a brutal blow to our industry no matter how this is sliced... unless we remain strong in our commitment to shed the bs of this industry and trying to reduce WAWCON.

The best thing for WJ Pilots right now would be to negotiate that ALL flying for the "3" companies be done solely by WJ Pilots. Same WAWCON regardless of type of aircraft. If positions have to be jockeyed within - so be it.

2 cents.

There is no doubt they see their pool of Encore pilots as their main source for staffing. Encore is youngest group of pilots in all of North America at an average age of 27.

However, we are starting to see the exodus to AC and their hiring is only going to ramp up. WJ will no way agree to one WAWCON. One has to wonder if they are on the same course as Ryan Air.

The key will be steering away from any kind of commitment (training bonds) besides the pink/teal Koolaid and "owners" go to the highest bidder.

AC would love to get some young 737 pilots in the near future. And I'm sure overseas will be no different.

Only when they realize it's cheaper to actually pay their pilots what they deserve and not having them groom planes like cleaners (maybe they can save some costs and have "owners" clean their hotel rooms??) will pay/conditions improve.

There still seems to be this "stuck in the past" mentality about pilots. There is a real shortage out there and as long as we are loyal to ourselves and family (vice a corporation) and go to the company that will offer us the best lifestyle, companies will have no choice but to get their head out of their arse.

Look no further than what is happening to the south. The industry is under a major re alignment with signing bonuses, pay improvements, flow, retirement benefits, etc.

[infiniteregulus]

Where's OUR lobby group? I see companies advertising at air shows and high schools all the time. They're trying to skew the public and young blood of what's going on and indoctrinate them before they even start their PPLs! ALPA, ACPA, and the safer skies thing are doing the best they can, but they still have an agenda for their respective workforces. There needs to be more exposure!

[SnotRocket]

65% of mainline wages? Where can I get some of this pink lemonade.

[BE20 Driver]

Also, if your goal is to go overseas and fly heavy metal, a 737NG type rating and 500 hrs on type is almost a guarantee job, making over 150K a year somewhere in Asia or the ME.

So, it is an attractive offer but only as a stepping stone to those who want to move on quickly.

You spelled 350K wrong. If you're heading overseas with 737 PIC time, you would be an idiot to fly for 150k. FO jobs overseas pay more than that. Hell, there's currently a posting for a 737 Direct entry captain job in China that only requires Dash8 Captain time and it pays about $285k CAD (net of all taxes). Compare that to 53% of your Canadian Captain salary going to fund Trudeau's hair products and Star Wars sock collection.

Yes, you can Swoop in and get some narrow body PIC time and then Swoop overseas to actually make a living.

[BE20 Driver]

They'll get pilots at 65%, for sure; as I see it, the big question is will they keep them?

We can't keep them now. 10% of Encore went to big red over the summer. That's before any of them flowed up to mainline.

[BE20 Driver]

Actually, according to this, we don't even rank in the top 11.

http://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/11-hi ... ts-448719/

11.Switzerland, 10.Kuwait, 9.Sweden, 8.Japan, 7.USA, 6.Italy, 5.Australia, 4.UK, 3.Hong Kong, 2.UAE, 1.Bahrain

Australia just recognized their pilot shortage and have opened up their express immigration to professional pilots.

https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa-1/189-

[wing yam]

They'll get pilots at 65%, for sure; as I see it, the big question is will they keep them?

We can't keep them now. 10% of Encore went to big red over the summer. That's before any of them flowed up to mainline.

10% ???As far as I know 3 left in July and 6 in September, last time I checked we were around 450 pilots. Its more like 2%. Sad but Im sure Swoop will do just fine.

[DanWEC]

Uh oh, whenever someone is mentioned in the same sentence as GGN it's never a good thing.