BE20 Driver wrote:Even at 65% of a mainline wage, it's a pay INCREASE for a guy in the first 3 years at mainline. That includes everyone who ever started at Encore.
65% of a year 1 captain at WJ is 85,000/year. A year 3 FO makes more than that, a year 2 FO who works a small amount of overtime makes more than that. Under the current hiring conditions, I bet I can find you a King Air job that pays more than that, works less that 20 days a month and you sleep in your own bed every night. I can definitely find you a Lear Jet captain position making more than 100,000+. So, I'm not sure what your thought process is but if it's all about the dollars then you are heading down the wrong path.
BE20 Driver wrote:Why is it a raise? Because no one actually stood up and did anything when Encore's wages were announced or the announcement that we would start at the bottom of the pay scale when we flowed over. Sure, I had lots of appologies, but no one actually took any action (one guy brought us donuts to feed us on a deadhead.)
Bull Shit! Oh sure, we could have gone on strike... oh wait, we couldn't have gone on strike because we were not legally entitled. Work to rule? But without protection against retaliation and firings? I'm open to suggestion here BE20. What could we have done that was not done? We fought, they said no. That was that. For you to say no one fought is a fucking insult to every pilot you work with and I sincerely hope that if this is your attitude that you leave because not only do you have no clue what was done for you but you have no appreciation of those who fought for you and this statement has insulted everyone who was at work the day GS started Encore. If you have anger issues, focus them on the actual people responsible for your pay.
BE20 Driver wrote:The guys who I've run into that are screaming BOTL so much are mostly guys that came here when upgrades were significantly shorter than they are now. Don't try to tell me what it's like at the bottom of the list these days. You have no clue what the struggle is like taking the pay cut to fly the 737. What if a YVR-YYZ commuter decided to take a whoops captain spot for 10% less. You're going to tell him not to do it because it will negatively affect your pay cheque. Everyone has a reason for considering this. The opportunities and challenges that you had in your career are not the same as the ones that I'm presented with.
What a rant! I took a pay-cut to come work for WJ when I started (in fact, everyone I've ever met took a pay-cut to go work at a major regardless of which major it was), and I started for less than you did and don't even try to go with the inflation argument. I started at the original 1996 starting wage after the housing prices had already tripled or more. I was impressed when I saw the guys at the top of the pay scale negotiate less of a raise for themselves so the new hires could go from 40,000/year to 55,000/year because everyone knew the new guys needed more money (a wage that was far higher than Air Canada's first year wage, I might add). It was too late for me as I was out of my first year by the time that deal was done but I supported it. My 8+ years journey to the left seat will likely be the peak of upgrade times. So stop bitching about how bad you've got it in life and start working to make things better rather than worse.
BE20 Driver wrote:PIC time is king. Maybe if you tie my two rants together you'll see that some people are considering this as the way out the door. I'm tired of starting my career over just above the poverty line.
So you've got 4 bars in your eyes? If you think flying the same machine around the sky for 65% of what I'm making while simultaneously complaining that the Air Canada pilots make more, you have no one to blame for wages but yourself. You can't wait a couple of years because you deserve everything now but it doesn't matter what path you choose, you will have to wait. Go to Air Canada at the bottom of their list. 4 years to an upgrade... well, you've already said you are 2+ years into WJ with upgrades running at 7 years and falling that's... 4 years to an upgrade. But enjoy that status pay. Go overseas... most decent contracts want 2000 hours of command time at just over 2 more years at a wage that is less than an FO gets paid. But you go for it. Just don't expect a lot of sympathy. And here's one last thought for you, did Flair have one list with Kelowna Flight Craft? All one owner, one union shop, one non-union shop.
I'm going to knock this up a notch with my spice weasle. Bam!