Meet Swoop - WestJet's ultra-low-cost carrier has a name, a home and a purpose

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Boreas
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Re: Meet Swoop - WestJet's ultra-low-cost carrier has a name, a home and a purpose

#26 Post by Boreas » Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:56 pm

infiniteregulus wrote:Tell me again why Asia and ME pays so highly for pilots and North America does not??
Because people want to live here and raise families and shit. Something thats being exploited more and more by NA airlines...
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Re: Meet Swoop - WestJet's ultra-low-cost carrier has a name, a home and a purpose

#27 Post by groundpilot » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:01 pm

HansDietrich wrote:
skypirate88 wrote:I sure hope the bank can give me a loan for my 737 type rating...maybe use my house as collateral. I'd really like to fly the 737 and don't mind pink.

How low are we going to go? I have never seen hiring like this in my career, and yet we have what I thought was a respectable company trying to drive down wawcon even further. I sure hope this isn't going to be a carrot dangled in front of the Encore group to stop them from joining ALPA
I agree with you to some extent, but remember, flying as an F/O on a Dash or Q at any of the "regionals" doesn't pay that great anymore. Anyone with half a brain would pick Jazz, Encore or Porter over Swoop, but as long as Flair can get 737 pilots, this Swoop will be able to get them too. Also, if your goal is to go overseas and fly heavy metal, a 737NG type rating and 500 hrs on type is almost a guarantee job, making over 150K a year somewhere in Asia or the ME.

So, it is an attractive offer but only as a stepping stone to those who want to move on quickly.
From my point of view, which doesn't involve extensive interest, it seems the only jobs that pay anything worthwhile are the Captain positions. There is an ad out today on here for A320 FOs with pay of $70k ish and to me that doesn't seem worth de rooting yourself overseas.

I'm sure the low pay will cause turnover so I'm sure it will be quick upgrades.

The question is: wouldn't it be cheaper to just pay your pilots properly than have constant turnover and a strained training department and associated costs?
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Re: Meet Swoop - WestJet's ultra-low-cost carrier has a name, a home and a purpose

#28 Post by DropTanks » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:22 pm

Swoop not looking for pilots. That was in error apparently. Will be flown by WJ pilots.
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Re: Meet Swoop - WestJet's ultra-low-cost carrier has a name, a home and a purpose

#29 Post by Gilles Hudicourt » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:05 pm

swoop

swo͞op/Submit
verb
1.
move rapidly downward through the air.

synonyms: dive, descend, sweep, pounce, plunge, pitch, nosedive; More

2.
informal
seize with a sweeping motion.


How appropriate
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Re: Meet Swoop - WestJet's ultra-low-cost carrier has a name, a home and a purpose

#30 Post by Gilles Hudicourt » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:15 pm

On a more serious note:

Air Canada Rouge and Encore do not have licences from the Canadian Transportation Agency. I assume Swoop wont either.

Historically, all carriers were required to have a Licence and Rouge and Encore were the first to ask the CTA for a waiver from this requirement which the CTA granted.

I looked at the application and the reply, and I just cant put my finger on it, but I smell a rat.......

If an airline was non compliant in any way, the CTA could pull your licence. Rouge and Encore have no licence to be pulled......
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Re: Meet Swoop - WestJet's ultra-low-cost carrier has a name, a home and a purpose

#31 Post by Dangerous Goods » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:20 pm

DropTanks wrote:Swoop not looking for pilots. That was in error apparently. Will be flown by WJ pilots.
Just to be clear, WJ is requesting the use of the WJ pilot list BUT at a reduced WAWCON. It's been WJ position from the beginning and it has to be negotiated. Thank GOD we have ALPA at the table. Encore better hurry up and certify as well.
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Re: Meet Swoop - WestJet's ultra-low-cost carrier has a name, a home and a purpose

#32 Post by North Shore » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:26 pm

^ Why would anyone with 1/2 a brain do that? Take a paycut to do the same job, and at the same time, undercut your brethren at mainline - that'd make for a *really* frosty cockpit if/when you went back to the mothership..
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Re: Meet Swoop - WestJet's ultra-low-cost carrier has a name, a home and a purpose

#33 Post by Dangerous Goods » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:36 pm

Went back to mainline line? Yah...BOTL
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Swoop

#34 Post by Eugene_goostman » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:55 pm

New ULCC by Westjet announced.


https://www.flyswoop.com
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Re: Meet Swoop - WestJet's ultra-low-cost carrier has a name, a home and a purpose

#35 Post by FICU » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:59 pm

North Shore wrote:^ Why would anyone with 1/2 a brain do that? Take a paycut to do the same job, and at the same time, undercut your brethren at mainline - that'd make for a *really* frosty cockpit if/when you went back to the mothership..
Cuz 4 bars. I'm sure many a WJ FO would be more than happy to get Pic time and WJ management knows it. FOs probably off the street or from Encore cuz shiny jet.
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Re: Swoop

#36 Post by infiniteregulus » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:59 pm

Gotta love all the cheaply photoshopped pink in all their website's photos. They couldn't even afford a professional designer....
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Re: Meet Swoop - WestJet's ultra-low-cost carrier has a name, a home and a purpose

#37 Post by rudder » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:07 pm

infiniteregulus wrote:Tell me again why Asia and ME pays so highly for pilots and North America does not??
Actually, the US does pay. Just check out he legacy rates effective in 2018. Without currency adjustment: 25-30% above Canada. With currency adjustment: closer to 40-50% higher.

The deficiency lies in Canada. Thanks in part to tilted arbitrations and abuse of power by the former Conservative government. And thanks in part to the inability of Canadian pilots to speak and act with one voice.

Perhaps things will change. Perhaps not.
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Re: Swoop

#38 Post by FighterPilot » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:11 pm

Website is so bad I thought it was a fake...
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Re: Meet Swoop - WestJet's ultra-low-cost carrier has a name, a home and a purpose

#39 Post by infiniteregulus » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:11 pm

Well this is indeed bothersome that Canadian pilots are becoming poverty level to the rest of the world. I'd be curious to see a list of what the mean pilot income would rank vs the globe.
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Re: Meet Swoop - WestJet's ultra-low-cost carrier has a name, a home and a purpose

#40 Post by infiniteregulus » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:17 pm

Actually, according to this, we don't even rank in the top 11.

http://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/11-hi ... ts-448719/

11.Switzerland, 10.Kuwait, 9.Sweden, 8.Japan, 7.USA, 6.Italy, 5.Australia, 4.UK, 3.Hong Kong, 2.UAE, 1.Bahrain
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Re: Swoop

#41 Post by 200Above » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:42 pm

Damn, I can only sign up to be a Flight Attendant or CSA so far!
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Re: Swoop

#42 Post by seriousflyer » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:43 pm

"Counldn't afford" is probably not the right choice of words to describe why they went with cheap, or basic website and marketing. Remember who "swoop" is backed by.
Unlike other ULCC companies in Canada operwting now or in near future.
I noticed Flair air is now not calling them self ULCC. I guess the fares they were offering aren't sustainable, and just low fares are realistic in this country.
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Re: Meet Swoop - WestJet's ultra-low-cost carrier has a name, a home and a purpose

#43 Post by Kosiw » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:57 pm

infiniteregulus wrote:Well this is indeed bothersome that Canadian pilots are becoming poverty level to the rest of the world. I'd be curious to see a list of what the mean pilot income would rank vs the globe.

Because time and time again pilots in this country (no matter the airline) have proven themselves to be cannibalistic in nature and will "eat their young" if necessary for their own advancement...there is no pilot unity in Canada.
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Re: Meet Swoop - WestJet's ultra-low-cost carrier has a name, a home and a purpose

#44 Post by all_ramped_up » Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:42 pm

Launch Swoop at the same time AC floods the projected Jetlines routes... Squash Jetlines. Fold up Swoop?

I wondered when the big two would tip their hands on their plan to take-out Jetlines before they get a foothold.
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Re: Meet Swoop - WestJet's ultra-low-cost carrier has a name, a home and a purpose

#45 Post by Inverted2 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:02 pm

Jazz tried the exact same thing in the last round of negots with a low cost regional with an equally retarded name of "Jive" Fortunately everyone went head over heels for the half assed PML and they got what they wanted (B scale :D ) so they didn't need any Jive talkin'.
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Re: Meet Swoop - WestJet's ultra-low-cost carrier has a name, a home and a purpose

#46 Post by complexintentions » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:24 pm

Boreas wrote:
infiniteregulus wrote:Tell me again why Asia and ME pays so highly for pilots and North America does not??
Because people want to live here and raise families and shit. Something thats being exploited more and more by NA airlines...
Uh, no. That's just something we say to flatter ourselves. Actually it's because the vast majority of the world's population lives in the East and is growing while the West has a largely neutral or declining birthrate. Maybe this picture will help explain better. Notice anything different between North America and Asia?

Image

And a NG-rated captain in China can make a lot more than 150K/yr. More like at least double that when you consider the tax advantages. Not that I'm remotely interested, but let's be accurate.

Supply and demand. Same factor driving the ULCC movement. More and more people want to fly, and no one wants to pay.
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Re: Meet Swoop - WestJet's ultra-low-cost carrier has a name, a home and a purpose

#47 Post by atphat » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:33 pm

Hate on Canadians wanting to live in Canada and raise their families here all you want. I make a pretty good living and I don’t have to live in the garbage sandbox or China. Which looks and sounds like a dream let me tell you.

Moving on....... Swoop rhymes with poop. Sounds like WJ got as much marketing buck as they payed for it. Nice. 8)
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Re: Meet Swoop - WestJet's ultra-low-cost carrier has a name, a home and a purpose

#48 Post by Boreas » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:45 pm

complexintentions wrote:
Boreas wrote:
infiniteregulus wrote:Tell me again why Asia and ME pays so highly for pilots and North America does not??
Because people want to live here and raise families and shit. Something thats being exploited more and more by NA airlines...
Uh, no. That's just something we say to flatter ourselves. Actually it's because the vast majority of the world's population lives in the East and is growing while the West has a largely neutral or declining birthrate. Maybe this picture will help explain better. Notice anything different between North America and Asia?

Image

And a NG-rated captain in China can make a lot more than 150K/yr. More like at least double that when you consider the tax advantages. Not that I'm remotely interested, but let's be accurate.

Supply and demand. Same factor driving the ULCC movement. More and more people want to fly, and no one wants to pay.
Uh, yes. Given my current level of experience, I could go to either Asian or the ME practically tomorrow. Why haven't I? I want to have a family here! And I know several other pilots that are in the same boat.

There are pilots who are actively looking to come to Canada from overseas just to have a life (family and all) here. I personally flew with two ex-fighter pilots from France of all places, who did just that. Don't you think those guys had opportunities to go elsewhere?

Nobody is faltering anyone here. People are willing to 'pay' a premium to live in Canada... Of course there's a limit. I think we're getting damn close to it!
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Re: Meet Swoop - WestJet's ultra-low-cost carrier has a name, a home and a purpose

#49 Post by skybaron » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:24 pm

Here we go.

From an outsider looking in, it's obvious that their proposed staffing will
likely want to come from Encore. It's a brutal blow to our industry no matter how this is sliced... unless we remain strong in our commitment to shed the bs of this industry and trying to reduce WAWCON.

The best thing for WJ Pilots right now would be to negotiate that ALL flying for the "3" companies be done solely by WJ Pilots. Same WAWCON regardless of type of aircraft. If positions have to be jockeyed within - so be it.

2 cents.
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Re: Meet Swoop - WestJet's ultra-low-cost carrier has a name, a home and a purpose

#50 Post by complexintentions » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:45 am

Oh relax. I was responding to someone who linked high pay elsewhere to people all clamouring to live in Canada. Hardly the case. It's just market economics in places like China. And the US, for that matter. As far as pilots "looking to come to Canada", I'd be willing to bet they've made their money elsewhere and now just want a different lifestyle - with the lower pay to go with it. Let me know how that "premium-paying" is working out. :mrgreen:

As far as Swoop, I'll bet they have no problem at crewing their fleet.
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