WestJet introduces WestJet Link

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DropTanks
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Re: WestJet introduces WestJet Link

#76 Post by DropTanks » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:48 am

I was thinking the same thing. And I hope you're right. PAL certainly has the experience in that environment and would be a good fit to the smaller communities. It stands to reason that WJ would work on these strategies nationwide concurrently so I'm hoping for news soonish.
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Ah_yeah
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Re: WestJet introduces WestJet Link

#77 Post by Ah_yeah » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:24 am

The Pasco deal seems like a smart one. Scope aside, it serves a segment of the market suited for a smaller a/c. Swoop is the weird one. It would not surprise me if it was purely a hypothetical tool to help with ALPA integration and scope language. Let's face it, if ACr and WJA wanted to quickly dispatch any newly minted ULCC, all they would have to do is offer same city pairs at comparable prices. In six months the whole exercise is over. This isn't Europe with it's short distances or the US with it's countless jet-worthy city pairs. The Swoop concept could just be a tool to keep WJA costs in check and the new union's hands full. The business case otherwise is weak IMO.
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DaveP
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Re: WestJet introduces WestJet Link

#78 Post by DaveP » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:16 pm

Mr. North wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:41 am
DropTanks wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:17 pm
I'm sorry you feel so hard done by. God knows all we talk about on the flight deck is how we can screw over the Encore pilots. Oh wait that's not true at all. In fact quite the opposite is true but if you don't believe that then I can't help you. We don't have any say over how many Encore flow over or when the 100% flow will be established permanently but I'm convinced its right around the corner and look forward to that day. The Encore fleet is nearing full delivery and I would think that would help 100% flow sooner rather than later. As far as the Pasco thing regarding hiring or an interview or whatever, I don't know what to tell you. The company has stated that no such agreement for special hiring to mainline exists. If you choose not to believe them then once again I can't help you. There's one very important thing the Pasco guys won't have that you do...and it rhymes with: reserved seniority spot on the one list with 737, Q400, 767 and soon 787 pilots.
I never accused you or any '37 pilot of colluding with management so cool your jets. But you did say that you've yet to meet a WJ pilot "losing their mind over the Pasco thing". Well I'm here to tell you that Encore pilots are far from happy about it. Everyone has been "convinced" that 100% flow is around the corner yet this whole CPA fiasco has proven that to be otherwise. The preferential interviews to mainline were redacted after an uproar from Encore pilots once we caught wind of it. Would that have been the case had we missed it? These sorts of "mistakes" don't just happen, this was deliberate and will most likely be revisited once things blow over.

Reserved Seniority, which up until yesterday was in jeopardy, doesn't account for the fact that new hires at mainline make more than any Encore pilot within 2-3 years. Yet Encore pilots start at the bottom of the pay scale again once they flow over regardless of their YOS. So sure we will see the left seat before new hires at mainline but that's cold comfort when they enjoy YEARS of better pay, schedule, esp, and benefits. Thankfully ALPA is now onboard, allowing us to work together with our brothers and sisters at WJ to streamline this whole affair. In the mean time we can expect another CPA to be announced out East.
That's untrue. "The preferential interviews to mainline were redacted after an uproar from Encore pilots once we caught wind of it" To this day, I'm not sure how that language even made it into the PASCO QnA so when the print was brought to our attention calls were immediately made to PASCO to remove that statement asap - as absolutely nothing had been agreed to around that topic. PASCO immediately removed it, they even sent us an apology to us which we forwarded to Chris K along with an immediate note to the pilot groups from the VP level. It's absolutely absurd to believe WestJet could take flow from PASCO direct to WJ. Talk about stirring the pot! and no - we won't be revisiting this "once they blow over" I hope you trust me there.

Please pick up the phone or come in and sit down and we can go over the events or your flow concerns on a factual level. Stirring the pot with little or no fact isn't the way to go.

As for the flow - I agree. 100% is achievable. It will depend on if WJE can handle the uptake (alpa or not) at the time of uptake for WJ. Growing and flowing was pretty tough last year to give 100% - 100% of the time.
Now that you (WJE) are about to stabilize - I agree that it will be much better and easier to manage flow. In fact, for the first time we are nicely ahead of the recruiting at WJE to the point of guys wanting to fly more hours which kinda goes against your "slaving away comment" or dropping another mandated day come Jan 1/18 to 18 days as per your current agreement. Both classes in Jan are full and we are filling February with a healthy pool. 2017 was huge for hiring with north of 160 new hires at WJ and north of 240 at Encore....crazy year and unprecedented for us.

The wild card as all know, is how swoop will come into play for 2018 imho.

Respectfully,
Dave
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Re: WestJet introduces WestJet Link

#79 Post by JBI » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:18 pm

DaveP wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:16 pm
To this day, I'm not sure how that language even made it into the PASCO QnA so when the print was brought to our attention calls were immediately made to PASCO to remove that statement asap - as absolutely nothing had been agreed to around that topic. PASCO immediately removed it, they even sent us an apology to us which we forwarded to Chris K along with an immediate note to the pilot groups from the VP level. It's absolutely absurd to believe WestJet could take flow from PASCO direct to WJ. Talk about stirring the pot! and no - we won't be revisiting this "once they blow over" I hope you trust me there.
DaveP,

I do trust you and I think most Encore pilots do as well. However, I don't blame the Encore pilots for being very upset with what was in the Pasco FAQ, in fact, I'm sure you don't either. I'm glad that management got on it very quickly and issued an apology and a clarification to the Encore pilots.

But here's the thing that was missed in all this uproar. Encore is now almost 500 pilots strong. I'm hesitant to throw around percentages, but I think it's fair to say that the vast majority of the current pilots do not want to spend their whole career at Encore. While I think most enjoy their jobs, it is a means to an end: a job at Mainline WestJet. Especially compared to Jazz, the pay scale and work life balance at Encore does not provide much incentive for a pilot to choose to spend their whole career there (this could be alleviated by simply making Encore a position bid, but I digress). Many, if not most, Encore pilots could make more money and have a better work life balance at other carriers, but choose to stay at Encore because of the flow to WestJet mainline. So as soon as there is any uncertainty about flow to WestJet, Encore pilots rightly start becoming concerned.

In the last 8 months, the company has made two incredibly significant announcements that may have a profound effect on Encore pilots' career progression yet have provided almost zero information to the pilots on how this affects them. Swoop is supposed to be starting in less than a year - they've even started designing uniforms and swooping office staff from Encore yet there is no information on the proposed plan for pilots. Again, Encore is a means to an end for most pilots and that 'end' is not to fly a pink 737 for less wages than the pay cut Encore pilots already take to get on the 737.

It is telling to see that Pasco, which has 70 or so pilots, many of whom are making a career at that airline, put out a multi-page FAQ for its employees. And while it contained some inaccuracies, it was an attempt by their management group to answer, in advance, the questions that would be coming from their pilots and employees after such an announcement was made. Although I'm sure the Encore pilots have a number of similar questions, they have one big question - what affect is this going to have on their career progression to mainline? It has been disappointingly quiet on the Swoop and WestJet Link front.

These could be some amazing opportunities for WestJet and all WestJet and Encore pilots and employees. Maybe Swoop will work out great and provide amazing career options for the Encore pilots. It sure would have been nice to have management out in front of answering the very obvious questions that the Encore pilots have. When the only answers management will give the Encore pilots for 8 months is "trust us, we're not trying to screw you", all I can think of is the Shakespeare quote from Hamlet "The lady doth protest too much, methinks". While I generally have confidence that things will work themselves out, I can also say with certainty that a majority of Encore pilots have applied to Air Canada on the most recent posting and, at the moment, there is very little incentive for them to stay at Encore which is sad, because I imagine many would prefer to stay on the Teal team everything being equal.

Cheers,
James
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DaveP
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Re: WestJet introduces WestJet Link

#80 Post by DaveP » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:20 pm

Hi there,
All valid concerns with regards to swoop and Encore. Unfortunately the lack of information is just that. The lack of information.
I consistently ask what the plan is for swoop hiring and I’m hoping to hear something soon. So the encore guys aren’t alone when it comes to a plan but the new atis should be out soon.
Adding to this dynamic, a new note came out in our mailboxes tonight with regards to the 87 bids and musical chairs. I expect with or without swoop - it will be a busy second half.
I can’t comment on what it would take to make anything a positional bid, but as it’s obvious - this will all be opened up for discussions in the future. I respect your speculation on the attrition as well but don’t share your prediction. Pm me and let’s put a beer on it! :)
All the best for the holidays,
Dave
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Re: WestJet introduces WestJet Link

#81 Post by yycinformer » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:41 pm

DaveP wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:16 pm
Both classes in Jan are full and we are filling February with a healthy pool. 2017 was huge for hiring with north of 160 new hires at WJ and north of 240 at Encore....crazy year and unprecedented for us.

The wild card as all know, is how swoop will come into play for 2018 imho.

Respectfully,
Dave
Hi Dave,

What do the hiring numbers look like in 2018 for WJ and Encore?
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Victory
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Re: WestJet introduces WestJet Link

#82 Post by Victory » Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:49 pm

If DaveP is in the dark on the Swoop hiring plan he could have also been in the the dark on a future Link flow through to Westjet agreement. These are things that would be discussed, considered, planned, negotiated, by higher level managers.
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Re: WestJet introduces WestJet Link

#83 Post by NewCommercialPilot » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:05 am

Victory wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:49 pm
If DaveP is in the dark on the Swoop hiring plan he could have also been in the the dark on a future Link flow through to Westjet agreement. These are things that would be discussed, considered, planned, negotiated, by higher level managers.
Meaning they would secretly discuss this with PASCO management and hope that PASCO would (fingers crossed) keep the information confidential, and not use it as a tool to recruit pilots. RRRRIIIGGHHTTTT...

You can get a great deal on aluminum foil at Costco I'm told, if you're running low.
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Re: WestJet introduces WestJet Link

#84 Post by DropTanks » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:51 am

NewCommercialPilot wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:05 am
Victory wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:49 pm
If DaveP is in the dark on the Swoop hiring plan he could have also been in the the dark on a future Link flow through to Westjet agreement. These are things that would be discussed, considered, planned, negotiated, by higher level managers.
Meaning they would secretly discuss this with PASCO management and hope that PASCO would (fingers crossed) keep the information confidential, and not use it as a tool to recruit pilots. RRRRIIIGGHHTTTT...

You can get a great deal on aluminum foil at Costco I'm told, if you're running low.
Oh God, now I have to agree with NewCommercialPilot. What has this world come to?

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Re: WestJet introduces WestJet Link

#85 Post by Go Guns » Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:53 am

I don't think anybody knows what the Swoop hiring plan is. I'm sure everyone involved knows what they want the plan to be, but how it actually plays out is anybody's guess.
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Re: WestJet introduces WestJet Link

#86 Post by DaveP » Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:06 am

Hi Victory
NCP is correct. There is no conspiracy there. I was in fact, working on the actual document (non flow) at the time the Pasco QnA surfaced and it had gone back n forth a bit already. There was never anything around Direct flow in that document. Hopefully that information snuffs that rumour for good!
As for the hiring numbers informer, I would hate to give you an inaccurate number at this time with all the balls up in the air. I’ll know a lot more in a month or two but it’s safe to say we will see 37 block growth and uptake for the 87 in second half for starters.
Encore is running two courses of 10 per month until I hear differently from them.
Cheers
Dave
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Re: WestJet introduces WestJet Link

#87 Post by Victory » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:38 pm

I don't think they mentioned flow did they? The wording I heard was preferential interview. I refuse to believe they made that up out of thin air. I also don't think there is something necessarily wrong with Westjet Link pilots getting preferential interviews but I can understand why Encore pilots wouldn't like it.
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Re: WestJet introduces WestJet Link

#88 Post by Splash » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:39 am

I can only think the reason for the delayed startup must be a shortage of pilots.

https://worldairlinenews.com/2018/02/01 ... s-delayed/
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