Swoop Blacklist

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Duke15
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#201 Post by Duke15 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:41 pm

As an Encore pilot close to flow i will gladly stay at encore a little while longer to have this swoop nonsense figured out properly as opposed to not fighting for what we ALL deserve. Its a small price to pay to help everyone out in the end as opposed to just myself right now and most likely in the long run will benefit me as we will come out of this with a stronger contract (not agreement) than we had before. We werent looking for a fight but one was brought to us unfortunately, we had zero say from the beginning and thats how it was all planned, had management come to us to negotiate things prior to making all the decisions for Swoop all of this could have been avoided, but they did not. We either stand together or make selfish choices that will end up hurting us all in the end. Im not going to hold a grudge against any OTS hire as i dont know their situation, but WJ pilots leaving for swoop is a different matter, we all have decent jobs at the moment, and to keep it that way or make it better we need to be patient and work together. Just my 2cents
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#202 Post by PROC_HDG » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:55 am

Duke15 wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:41 pm
As an Encore pilot close to flow i will gladly stay at encore a little while longer to have this swoop nonsense figured out properly as opposed to not fighting for what we ALL deserve. Its a small price to pay to help everyone out in the end as opposed to just myself right now and most likely in the long run will benefit me as we will come out of this with a stronger contract (not agreement) than we had before. We werent looking for a fight but one was brought to us unfortunately, we had zero say from the beginning and thats how it was all planned, had management come to us to negotiate things prior to making all the decisions for Swoop all of this could have been avoided, but they did not. We either stand together or make selfish choices that will end up hurting us all in the end. Im not going to hold a grudge against any OTS hire as i dont know their situation, but WJ pilots leaving for swoop is a different matter, we all have decent jobs at the moment, and to keep it that way or make it better we need to be patient and work together. Just my 2cents
Damn, this kind of thing is encouraging to hear in an industry that seems to be chock-a-block with short sighted individualistic douchebags. Keep up the good work.

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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#203 Post by WeedPro2000 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:13 am

From trusted non-WJ sources, I am now aware of 4 pilots who have given notice to their Canadian employers and let it be known that they are going to Swoop. They are working at the companies one would expect. Two of them worked at companies that I worked at in the past. One of them I remember as being a great guy, the other pilot is just a name from a seniority list to me.

In spite of reports to the contrary, I have to believe that hiring is progressing at Swoop. The launch date will occur as planned. Perhaps the ALPA ULP against WJ will have some longer term implications on the operation in respect of whether the Swoop pilots are ALPA pilots or not, but perhaps not. I certainly don't believe that a common employer application would be successful, but that is not part of the current ALPA ULP against the company. I have no idea what the gist of the ULP is and so I won't comment on it.

For now, it seems, the blacklist is ineffective. And for now, it seems, WJ and WJE pilots have been shut out of Swoop flightdecks by the union they have chosen to represent them. For those lower on the pilot list, I wish them luck with the gambit.
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#204 Post by altiplano » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:49 am

A whole 4 pilots! Does that include you?
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#205 Post by Mr. North » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:56 am

WeedPro2000 wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:13 am
.
And for now, it seems, WJ and WJE pilots have been shut out of Swoop flightdecks by the union they have chosen to represent them.
More incorrect bafflegab. Any WestJet/Encore pilot can fly at swoop, they'll just have to quit WestJet in the process.
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#206 Post by skybaron » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:41 am

Duke15 wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:41 pm
As an Encore pilot close to flow i will gladly stay at encore a little while longer to have this swoop nonsense figured out properly as opposed to not fighting for what we ALL deserve. Its a small price to pay to help everyone out in the end as opposed to just myself right now and most likely in the long run will benefit me as we will come out of this with a stronger contract (not agreement) than we had before. We werent looking for a fight but one was brought to us unfortunately, we had zero say from the beginning and thats how it was all planned, had management come to us to negotiate things prior to making all the decisions for Swoop all of this could have been avoided, but they did not. We either stand together or make selfish choices that will end up hurting us all in the end. Im not going to hold a grudge against any OTS hire as i dont know their situation, but WJ pilots leaving for swoop is a different matter, we all have decent jobs at the moment, and to keep it that way or make it better we need to be patient and work together. Just my 2cents
Alas, there is hope!

Well said.
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#207 Post by Legacy » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:34 pm

Exactly, what I wouldn't give to see more respectable pilots like this in the industry. Thanks Duke. My kids will appreciate your patience for helping pave their path of their career. Very non selfish of you.
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#208 Post by Raincoast » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:00 pm

Duke15 wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:41 pm
As an Encore pilot close to flow i will gladly stay at encore a little while longer to have this swoop nonsense figured out properly as opposed to not fighting for what we ALL deserve. Its a small price to pay to help everyone out in the end as opposed to just myself right now and most likely in the long run will benefit me as we will come out of this with a stronger contract (not agreement) than we had before. We werent looking for a fight but one was brought to us unfortunately, we had zero say from the beginning and thats how it was all planned, had management come to us to negotiate things prior to making all the decisions for Swoop all of this could have been avoided, but they did not. We either stand together or make selfish choices that will end up hurting us all in the end. Im not going to hold a grudge against any OTS hire as i dont know their situation, but WJ pilots leaving for swoop is a different matter, we all have decent jobs at the moment, and to keep it that way or make it better we need to be patient and work together. Just my 2cents

And yet, 5-7ish years ago, it was people going to Encore for, what was it? 80%? of comparable wages,and if I have my timeline correct, perhaps leading to a concessionary contract at Jazz.

I guess that 'standing together' depends on whose ox is being gored...
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#209 Post by HansDietrich » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:32 pm

Raincoast wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:00 pm
And yet, 5-7ish years ago, it was people going to Encore for, what was it? 80%? of comparable wages,and if I have my timeline correct, perhaps leading to a concessionary contract at Jazz.

I guess that 'standing together' depends on whose ox is being gored...
No kidding! We're all guilty of selling ourselves short at one point in our career. I did it; you did it and they did it. Honestly I can't really blame pilots wanting to go to Swoop. I've said it 1,000 times before. Nobody is working at Jazz, Encore, Flair, Georgian, EVAS "Swoop" etc because they really want to. It's because they have no other option at this point. How can you blame the guy making $50K on a King Air wanting to go F/O at Swoop for more money and to fly a better plane that will actually open other doors?

This debate is getting so old. You'll have people who will never agree. It's hard to be picky when you're hungry.
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#210 Post by mbav8r » Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:52 pm

HansDietrich wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:32 pm
[quote=Raincoast post_id=<a href="tel:1033022">1033022</a> time=<a href="tel:1520719234">1520719234</a> user_id=57294]And yet, 5-7ish years ago, it was people going to Encore for, what was it? 80%? of comparable wages,and if I have my timeline correct, perhaps leading to a concessionary contract at Jazz.

I guess that 'standing together' depends on whose ox is being gored...
No kidding! We're all guilty of selling ourselves short at one point in our career. I did it; you did it and they did it. Honestly I can't really blame pilots wanting to go to Swoop. I've said it 1,000 times before. Nobody is working at Jazz, Encore, Flair, Georgian, EVAS "Swoop" etc because they really want to. It's because they have no other option at this point. How can you blame the guy making $50K on a King Air wanting to go F/O at Swoop for more money and to fly a better plane that will actually open other doors?

This debate is getting so old. You'll have people who will never agree. It's hard to be picky when you're hungry.
[/quote]
Not that long ago a child was sentenced to serve anywhere from 14 days to several months in prison and 20 lashes for stealing a loaf of bread, I’m sure they did it because they were hungry and poor. This debate is relevant as long as you justify taking bread from my table because you’re hungry, it’s still stealing.
We can argue all day about who has lowered the bar in the past but at some point we need to stop making excuses and end the cycle.
Hans, if Swoop grows to the 40 aircraft they are planning and WJ reduces the fleet by the same amount causing lay offs and significant delays to upgrades, is that ok with you?
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#211 Post by HansDietrich » Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:42 pm

mbav8r wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:52 pm
Hans, if Swoop grows to the 40 aircraft they are planning and WJ reduces the fleet by the same amount causing lay offs and significant delays to upgrades, is that ok with you?
[/quote]

Absolutely not. That would be detrimental on a grand scale to everyone, starting with the 777 captain at AC and ending with little Timmy trying to get his CPL done. All I'm saying is that you can't blame the individual. You have to blame the system.

It's no different than blaming the individual living in a communist country. He may say he loves it, he may say he agrees with it, but deep down he resents it. However, the system is so strong, he has no chance as an individual. What does he do then? Try to make the best of it.

If I had the answer to that, I'd be the next Transportation Minister.
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#212 Post by tailgunner » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:11 pm

Hans,
Quit being such an apologist for these individuals. They have a choice. It is not just the system. The system is made up by individuals.
Are you also an apologist for the citizens of France who collaborated with their Nazi occupiers?They also were hungry, they also were looking out for the welfare of their own families, yet their individual deeds of collaboration were very detrimental others. They made individual choices to better their own lot, knowing that their choices were causing, or were likely to cause much pain and hurt.
Obviously to compare Swoop and the German occupation of France during WW2 can be seen to welcome questions of relevance, however the principle is the same. Individuals making choices for their own gain, knowing that others will suffer by these same choices.
Cheers.
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#213 Post by tbaylx » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:20 pm

tailgunner wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:11 pm
Hans,
Quit being such an apologist for these individuals. They have a choice. It is not just the system. The system is made up by individuals.
Are you also an apologist for the citizens of France who collaborated with their Nazi occupiers?They also were hungry, they also were looking out for the welfare of their own families, yet their individual deeds of collaboration were very detrimental others. They made individual choices to better their own lot, knowing that their choices were causing, or were likely to cause much pain and hurt.
Obviously to compare Swoop and the German occupation of France during WW2 can be seen to welcome questions of relevance, however the principle is the same. Individuals making choices for their own gain, knowing that others will suffer by these same choices.
Cheers.
Oh for crying out loud, now pilots taking a job are the same as French Nazi sympathisers? Poor mainline pilot will now be carted off to his certain demise in a concentration camp. If only they'd think of the children before they took the job!! :roll:
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#214 Post by Commonwealth » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:24 pm

Yep, Godwin's Law.
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#215 Post by HansDietrich » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:31 pm

tailgunner wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:11 pm
Hans,
Quit being such an apologist for these individuals. They have a choice. It is not just the system. The system is made up by individuals.
Are you also an apologist for the citizens of France who collaborated with their Nazi occupiers?They also were hungry, they also were looking out for the welfare of their own families, yet their individual deeds of collaboration were very detrimental others. They made individual choices to better their own lot, knowing that their choices were causing, or were likely to cause much pain and hurt.
Obviously to compare Swoop and the German occupation of France during WW2 can be seen to welcome questions of relevance, however the principle is the same. Individuals making choices for their own gain, knowing that others will suffer by these same choices.
Cheers.
Unreal! You're comparing pilots making 40K a year with Nazi sympathizers and collaborators? :( I recommend you open up some history books and educate yourself, man!

Edit: Okay. That's enough internet for me today!
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#216 Post by GATRKGA » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:09 pm

Word is 10 from sky regional to swoop in April... not confirmed. all captains.
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#217 Post by Alcoholism » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:51 pm

wow tailgunner, there's a camp where you can get help
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#218 Post by RidersRule » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:29 pm

GATRKGA wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:09 pm
Word is 10 from sky regional to swoop in April... not confirmed. all captains.
Wow. Why move sideways (definitely not forwards) from sky to poop when there is a 90% chance poop never gets off the ground?
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#219 Post by tbaylx » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:56 am

RidersRule wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:29 pm
GATRKGA wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:09 pm
Word is 10 from sky regional to swoop in April... not confirmed. all captains.
Wow. Why move sideways (definitely not forwards) from sky to poop when there is a 90% chance poop never gets off the ground?
I'd say that's a significant move up. Considerably higher pay, plus a chance to get in on the ground floor of a new operation, likely much better schedule (average stage length at swoop is ~1200NM or 3-4 hour legs, its going to be efficient flying much like Sunwing).

I can certainly see why a Sky Regional pilot would be interested in making the move. Guess it depends on how you look at it. If we're going to make up odds I'd say it more likely 90% chance Swoop launches on schedule in June with or without ALPA.
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#220 Post by WeedPro2000 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:11 am

RidersRule wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:29 pm
Wow. Why move sideways (definitely not forwards) from sky to poop when there is a 90% chance poop never gets off the ground?
To be fair, 95% of all statistics cited on the internet are made up on the spot by the poster.
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#221 Post by altiplano » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:14 am

RidersRule wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:29 pm
GATRKGA wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:09 pm
Word is 10 from sky regional to swoop in April... not confirmed. all captains.
Wow. Why move sideways (definitely not forwards) from sky to poop when there is a 90% chance poop never gets off the ground?
I'm sure management tells those that ask: "don't worry, we'll put you at WestJet if Swoop doesn't fly."
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#222 Post by CaptainHaddock » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:15 pm

I keep hearing April start dates, it’s only March 11th right now. Hopefully they haven’t given notice at their old jobs yet. There is still the ULP for a cease and desist hiring a Swoop to be resolved (prior to April I’m guessing), and the definite possability of real negotiations happening now. So we’ll see how it pans out for all the Swoopster hopefuls.
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#223 Post by mbav8r » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:14 pm

CaptainHaddock wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:15 pm
I keep hearing April start dates, it’s only March 11th right now. Hopefully they haven’t given notice at their old jobs yet. There is still the ULP for a cease and desist hiring a Swoop to be resolved (prior to April I’m guessing), and the definite possability of real negotiations happening now. So we’ll see how it pans out for all the Swoopster hopefuls.
I hope they did quit their jobs!
It’s no secret how I feel about SR and their pilots, and if it’s in fact true about these 10 Captains joining swoop, it further solidifies they are the dregs of society I knew they were. I hope they quit and then get what is deserved when the cease and desist comes through, about a 96.925% chance ALPA wins.
It could be a win win, SR cancels flights because no captain, then they join the unemployment line, everybody is happy:)
Hey Hans, can you please tell us how hard it is to live on 85,000 a year so these guys have no choice but to join swoop, I can’t wait!
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#224 Post by schnitzel2k3 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:18 pm

Certainly a very risky move for the SR captains - but salary isn't always a driving force.

Another factor people need to start considering is not all pilots live near Pearson or Vancouver - cutting the commute alone makes a lot of sense.

Higher salary + same benefits + longer stage lengths + reduced commute = big savings.

Few career operators based at secondary airports.

Food for thought.

S.
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#225 Post by JohnnyHotRocks » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:35 pm

mbav8r wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:14 pm
CaptainHaddock wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:15 pm
I keep hearing April start dates, it’s only March 11th right now. Hopefully they haven’t given notice at their old jobs yet. There is still the ULP for a cease and desist hiring a Swoop to be resolved (prior to April I’m guessing), and the definite possability of real negotiations happening now. So we’ll see how it pans out for all the Swoopster hopefuls.
I hope they did quit their jobs!
It’s no secret how I feel about SR and their pilots, and if it’s in fact true about these 10 Captains joining swoop, it further solidifies they are the dregs of society I knew they were. I hope they quit and then get what is deserved when the cease and desist comes through, about a 96.925% chance ALPA wins.
It could be a win win, SR cancels flights because no captain, then they join the unemployment line, everybody is happy:)
Hey Hans, can you please tell us how hard it is to live on 85,000 a year so these guys have no choice but to join swoop, I can’t wait!
Spoken by someone who's company had the lowest paid 757 Captains in North America
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