Swoop Blacklist

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Fanblade
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#126 Post by Fanblade » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:36 am

Impact wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:14 pm
AvifiskAlly wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:44 am
Fanblade wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:04 am


You have misconstrued the point. The Swoop flying contractually belongs to the WJ pilot group. End of story. Until it is negotiated otherwise, or there is a strike lockout, it remains fact.

Seeking to take what belongs to someone else is the moral question.

If you apply to Swoop, and are willing to take the job, you are volunteering to help WJ management pressure it’s pilots into pay and working condition cuts.

Then you have the audacity to complain about wages???????????????

Flying belongs to no group. WJ pilots have earned Nothing yet. Don’t even have a contract yet. Give the rest of us some credit for not getting involved in your own self righteous crusade to line your own pocket.
Nailed it! 8)
Actually the comment is quite naive and displays AvifiskAlly doesn’t understand the certification process.

Airtids post is correct.

The WJ contract is currently frozen. It can only be altered through arbitration/negotiation or Strike/lockout. Since this is a first contract the only options are negotiation/arbitration.

Negotiation is preferred as the jurisprudence for arbitration on a first contract provides very little likelihood for change. (with the exception of introducing a grievance process)

If either side wants changes they will have to negotiate. It s clear WJ management wants wages and working condition changes at swoop. Those changes must be negotiated or the current contract applies.

The WJ pilots themselves want changes. Those also need to be negotiated.

There are really only two likely out comes.

1) They sit down and negotiate an agreement that both can work with.

Or

2) Go to arbitration and live with the status quo for two more years.

If WJ management decides to go Rogue and unilaterally impose Swoop wages and working conditions? ( I really doubt it) Buyer beware. There would be a high probability it would be struck down through arbitration, leaving those who took the jobs in an uncertain position.
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AvifiskAlly
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#127 Post by AvifiskAlly » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:43 am

Fanblade wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:36 am
Impact wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:14 pm
AvifiskAlly wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:44 am



Flying belongs to no group. WJ pilots have earned Nothing yet. Don’t even have a contract yet. Give the rest of us some credit for not getting involved in your own self righteous crusade to line your own pocket.
Nailed it! 8)
Actually the comment is quite naive and displays AvifiskAlly doesn’t understand the certification process.

Airtids post is correct.

The WJ contract is currently frozen. It can only be altered through arbitration/negotiation or Strike/lockout. Since this is a first contract the only options are negotiation/arbitration.

Negotiation is preferred as the jurisprudence for arbitration on a first contract provides very little likelihood for change. (with the exception of introducing a grievance process)

If either side wants changes they will have to negotiate. It s clear WJ management wants wages and working condition changes at swoop. Those changes must be negotiated or the current contract applies.

The WJ pilots themselves want changes. Those also need to be negotiated.

There are really only two likely out comes.

1) They sit down and negotiate an agreement that both can work with.

Or

2) Go to arbitration and live with the status quo for two more years.

If WJ management decides to go Rogue and unilaterally impose Swoop wages and working conditions? ( I really doubt it) Buyer beware. There would be a high probability it would be struck down through arbitration, leaving those who took the jobs in an uncertain position.
Well that is good info. Thanks, I stand corrected on the old WJ agreement being binding through negotiations - odd it is called a first contract if it is based on the old agreement. In any case my bigger point was that this is not an industry issue its a WJ and WJ pilot issue. Nothing big or new here, keep it internal and get a contract. Or dont nobody cares but the few WJ pilots in the country
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TFTMB heavy
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#128 Post by TFTMB heavy » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:32 am

They can also go into a conciliation period, which I believe they (WS MEC) have filed for. You don't go from negotiations straight to arbitration necessarily.

https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-soc ... ining.html
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Fanblade
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#129 Post by Fanblade » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:37 am

TFTMB heavy wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:32 am
They can also go into a conciliation period, which I believe they (WS MEC) have filed for. You don't go from negotiations straight to arbitration necessarily.

https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-soc ... ining.html
You don’t ever go straight from negotiations to arbitration unless both parties agree. It’s a process. Your link discribes it well with one caveat. I’m pretty sure strike/lockout is not an option on the first contract.
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#130 Post by TFTMB heavy » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:30 pm

Fanblade wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:37 am
TFTMB heavy wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:32 am
They can also go into a conciliation period, which I believe they (WS MEC) have filed for. You don't go from negotiations straight to arbitration necessarily.

https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-soc ... ining.html
You don’t ever go straight from negotiations to arbitration unless both parties agree. It’s a process. Your link discribes it well with one caveat. I’m pretty sure strike/lockout is not an option on the first contract.
It is an option and likely will be the reason the contract is settled by Summer time provided the MEC can secure a decisive strike mandate. That's my opinion and only time will tell BTW.
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Demeter
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#131 Post by Demeter » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:55 pm

They won’t get a strike mandate. We have the wrong mec in place unfortunately with eroding credibility. A Hint is to start by telling the truth in the weekly reports and you might win a few of us back. Sorry but I’ve seen enough of the pub night invites. Nice to see the winnipeg arm buying breakfast for all he flies with as well. Who is paying for that? Oh ya, sorry I read it the other day. We are under budget :?
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#132 Post by TFTMB heavy » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:40 pm

Demeter wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:55 pm
They won’t get a strike mandate. We have the wrong mec in place unfortunately with eroding credibility. A Hint is to start by telling the truth in the weekly reports and you might win a few of us back. Sorry but I’ve seen enough of the pub night invites. Nice to see the winnipeg arm buying breakfast for all he flies with as well. Who is paying for that? Oh ya, sorry I read it the other day. We are under budget :?
I can't comment on that but I can tell you that having been thru a couple of negotiation as a line pilot and on the negations team, they are very hard on the morale. The best thing to do is talk to the MEC directly if you have any questions or comments and show up for PUB nights and other union related events. It's the best way to stay informed and also shows support to the pilots that are volunteering their time for the cause.

Show support and have some faith in the people that stepped up. Most important of all, do not discredit them in public!
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#133 Post by Fanblade » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:39 am

TFTMB heavy wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:30 pm

It is an option and likely will be the reason the contract is settled by Summer time provided the MEC can secure a decisive strike mandate. That's my opinion and only time will tell BTW.
First contract arbitration

http://www.mondaq.com/canada/x/150668/E ... rbitration

https://www.erudit.org/fr/revues/ri/198 ... 9087ar.pdf

Under this amendment , where the parties negotiating a first collective
agreement are unable to reach agreement and hâve met ail the légal re- quirements précèdent to a strike or lockout, the Minister may direct the Board to inquire into the dispute and if advisable settle the terms and condi- tions of the collective agreement.

Upon such a referrai, the Board settles the terms and conditions of a first collective agreement which constitutes the agreement between the par- ties and is binding on them. This agreement will be effective for a period of one year.
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Fanblade
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#134 Post by Fanblade » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:09 am

Fanblade wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:39 am
TFTMB heavy wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:30 pm

It is an option and likely will be the reason the contract is settled by Summer time provided the MEC can secure a decisive strike mandate. That's my opinion and only time will tell BTW.
First contract arbitration

http://www.mondaq.com/canada/x/150668/E ... rbitration

https://www.erudit.org/fr/revues/ri/198 ... 9087ar.pdf

Under this amendment , where the parties negotiating a first collective
agreement are unable to reach agreement and hâve met ail the légal re- quirements précèdent to a strike or lockout, the Minister may direct the Board to inquire into the dispute and if advisable settle the terms and condi- tions of the collective agreement.

Upon such a referrai, the Board settles the terms and conditions of a first collective agreement which constitutes the agreement between the par- ties and is binding on them. This agreement will be effective for a period of one year.
If you read the above and then contemplate ALPA and Saretsky’s comments it makes more sense. They may be both saying the same thing.

ALPA says a contract this summer.

Saretsky says no agreement in 2018. But no agreement likely means arbitration. Arbitration means we couldn’t agree.

“It’s going to take a long time,” CEO Gregg Saretsky told a Toronto transportation conference. “It is unlikely that there will be an agreement in 2018.”

Both comments are in sync if forced arbitration isn’t really an agreement.

I think both parties are now heading in the same direction after applying for conciliation. I think ALPA would have liked to negotiate but WJ management has decided to take the arbitration route.

WJ management’s strategy is delay. A first contract arbitration will break no new ground other than a grievance process. Then they get a year beyond that at status quo. All in all the entire process from ALPA certification to the end of the one year contract, is two years of status quo. Once the first real contract negotiations get started in 2019, just the usual delays could take the process into early 2020.

But back to my original reason for posting. Buyer beware for those applying to Swoop. What Swoop’s management tell’s or offers you is likely meaningless. Your position, wages and working conditions will ultimately be settled at the negotiations table by WJ pilots or through an arbitrator and it might take a while.
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#135 Post by lostaviator » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:06 am

Demeter wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:55 pm
A Hint is to start by telling the truth in the weekly reports and you might win a few of us back
Can you back that statement up with proof/facts?

I’d say the company (to date) has been much more dishonest then the mec.
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#136 Post by cjet » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:56 am

Demeter wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:55 pm
They won’t get a strike mandate. We have the wrong mec in place unfortunately with eroding credibility. A Hint is to start by telling the truth in the weekly reports and you might win a few of us back. Sorry but I’ve seen enough of the pub night invites. Nice to see the winnipeg arm buying breakfast for all he flies with as well. Who is paying for that? Oh ya, sorry I read it the other day. We are under budget :?
I've not read one false thing yet in the fastreads. So far I've been very impressed with the open communication from the MEC. The unity on the line is very cool to see I think you'll be very surprised if we get to a stike vote.

CJET
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JoeyBarton
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#137 Post by JoeyBarton » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:13 pm

This reminds me of that moment in 2013 when everybody at AC complained at giving up the 15 E175 to sky regional, you all remember that massive thread that lasted for a while. 5 years later nobody remembers that fight anymore..And guess what all these E175 skippers are willing to do exactly the same at Swoop and grab those DEC spots like they did at sky, sit on the seniority and wait for things to improve because they do improve after 5 years. Except this time the payscale starts higher and improves by 10k every year after that. Keep in mind there's a lot of unhappy skippers at Jazz, sky and ggn. For them it is better pay and lifestyle then flying the flag. Unless wj alpa merges the list really fast, I don't see how anything is going to be done to stop these express folks from applying at Swoop. It happened at Sky it will happen here. Sadly
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#138 Post by atphat » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:31 pm

JoeyBarton wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:13 pm
This reminds me of that moment in 2013 when everybody at AC complained at giving up the 15 E175 to sky regional, you all remember that massive thread that lasted for a while. 5 years later nobody remembers that fight anymore..And guess what all these E175 skippers are willing to do exactly the same at Swoop and grab those DEC spots like they did at sky, sit on the seniority and wait for things to improve because they do improve after 5 years. Except this time the payscale starts higher and improves by 10k every year after that. Keep in mind there's a lot of unhappy skippers at Jazz, sky and ggn. For them it is better pay and lifestyle then flying the flag. Unless wj alpa merges the list really fast, I don't see how anything is going to be done to stop these express folks from applying at Swoop. It happened at Sky it will happen here. Sadly
Well said. Sky is no longer the "scab" place to be. It's normalized. Swoop is the next step. Sadly
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Demeter
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#139 Post by Demeter » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:18 pm

:smt014
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Last edited by Demeter on Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

Greenbastard
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#140 Post by Greenbastard » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:10 pm

Demeter you seem confident in your efforts to discredit our elected MEC. What exactly is your contribution to anything on this matter? What is your solution to the current state ? Or do you just criticize from the shadows.
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#141 Post by altiplano » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:11 pm

JoeyBarton wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:13 pm
This reminds me of that moment in 2013 when everybody at AC complained at giving up the 15 E175 to sky regional
Good point... Remember "those moments"

Sky Regional? Just 5 Dashes on the Island...
In the end they gutted our jobs and pay. Not just took the 175s, but the WB FO pay too that we gave to improve EMJ CA pay - vanished - gone.

Like Rouge... Remember "that moment"?
Only 30 319s and 20 767s? So soon it became 25 of any NBJ and 25 767s... but "that's it"... jeesh... now unlimited NBJs, more 321s coming, threatening to take more, all of our regional upgauging at B scale... all the best productive flying and layovers, not to mention all of our bargaining capital and many concessions trying to "fix".,..

Remember "those moments" - because they bring down our careers.

No more moments please.
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#142 Post by tailgunner » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:28 am

When SKY started there were 55 CA jobs in YVR on the EMB. 55 CA jobs in YUL, and some 245 CA jobs in YYZ. Now there are 125 CA jobs in YYZ. So, those SKY CA's that bid there time over there, only to now get on to mainline have taken at least a 50% wage cut for the last 5 years or so. They were happy with 84000 per year, all the while they should have/could have been earning upwards of 150000....yup , worked brilliantly.
Don't do this with Swoop
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Art Garfunkel
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#143 Post by Art Garfunkel » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:50 pm

I get the impression that there is no ownership for the creation of Sky Regional by ACPA. Wasn't there a clause in the old contract that limited regional flying to just one carrier? (JAZZ). I know, I know, that clause was taken out by FOS arbitration. But was it? Not pointing fingers here, but I hate it when we blame other pilots for taking jobs that are out there on the free market for less than other jobs. We let it happen!

Time to stop looking in the past and look to control the future. I hate Swoop, Sky, GGN and Rouge for everything that it stands for……Lowering the Pilot Profession. Time to unite and realize that we do need one controlling body to control pilot wages and working conditions. We have seen what happens when corporations are left to it.

Time for ACPA to come back!
Time for Sky to organize!
Time for WJ pilots to unite and say no to lowering wages!
Time for Pilots in Canada to stand together like brothers/sisters go forward with wages and not backwards!
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#144 Post by Fanblade » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:34 pm

Art Garfunkel wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:50 pm
I get the impression that there is no ownership for the creation of Sky Regional by ACPA. Wasn't there a clause in the old contract that limited regional flying to just one carrier? (JAZZ). I know, I know, that clause was taken out by FOS arbitration. But was it? Not pointing fingers here......
As an AC pilot I will point for you. Yes FOS imposed the change that ended Jazz's exclusive regional carrier status. However it is equally true that FOS simply imposed what ACPA had freely negotiated with the company in the first place.

The whole thing ended in arbitration after being widely rejected by the membership.

An ACPA epic fail.
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#145 Post by George Taylor » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:40 am

The angry grandpa and the orange demon had so many other ways to stay competitive and battle the ULCC's.
Swoop is nothing more then a giant FU to the pilots.
Here's another example of the great management at Air Canada:

http://www.travelweek.ca/news/air-canad ... est-price/
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#146 Post by AvifiskAlly » Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:52 pm

Art Garfunkel wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:50 pm
I get the impression that there is no ownership for the creation of Sky Regional by ACPA. Wasn't there a clause in the old contract that limited regional flying to just one carrier? (JAZZ). I know, I know, that clause was taken out by FOS arbitration. But was it? Not pointing fingers here, but I hate it when we blame other pilots for taking jobs that are out there on the free market for less than other jobs. We let it happen!

Time to stop looking in the past and look to control the future. I hate Swoop, Sky, GGN and Rouge for everything that it stands for……Lowering the Pilot Profession. Time to unite and realize that we do need one controlling body to control pilot wages and working conditions. We have seen what happens when corporations are left to it.

Time for ACPA to come back!
Time for Sky to organize!
Time for WJ pilots to unite and say no to lowering wages!
Time for Pilots in Canada to stand together like brothers/sisters go forward with wages and not backwards!

Get a life. It is a competitive business. Hate, Swoop, Sky, GGN all you want but the reality is the work these guys do would have been lost in any case. Sky and Georgian to American regionals and Swoop and other ULCC’s to more Canadians driving to the US for flights or simply not flying. The ULCC’s stimulate new markets and that results in industry growth.

BTW AC was not the pilot group that started Sky it was Jazz by being the most expensive regional in the world and a threat to go on strike which was basically greed. Sky started without ACPA authorization or agreement but to be honest - it was the right thing to do. Jazz was becoming a monster that we could no longer feed. Greed based doom
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mbav8r
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#147 Post by mbav8r » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:33 pm

AvifiskAlly wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:52 pm
[quote="Art Garfunkel" post_id=<a href="tel:1030612">1030612</a> time=<a href="tel:1519242640">1519242640</a> user_id=45935]
I get the impression that there is no ownership for the creation of Sky Regional by ACPA. Wasn't there a clause in the old contract that limited regional flying to just one carrier? (JAZZ). I know, I know, that clause was taken out by FOS arbitration. But was it? Not pointing fingers here, but I hate it when we blame other pilots for taking jobs that are out there on the free market for less than other jobs. We let it happen!

Time to stop looking in the past and look to control the future. I hate Swoop, Sky, GGN and Rouge for everything that it stands for……Lowering the Pilot Profession. Time to unite and realize that we do need one controlling body to control pilot wages and working conditions. We have seen what happens when corporations are left to it.

Time for ACPA to come back!
Time for Sky to organize!
Time for WJ pilots to unite and say no to lowering wages!
Time for Pilots in Canada to stand together like brothers/sisters go forward with wages and not backwards!

Get a life. It is a competitive business. Hate, Swoop, Sky, GGN all you want but the reality is the work these guys do would have been lost in any case. Sky and Georgian to American regionals and Swoop and other ULCC’s to more Canadians driving to the US for flights or simply not flying. The ULCC’s stimulate new markets and that results in industry growth.

BTW AC was not the pilot group that started Sky it was Jazz by being the most expensive regional in the world and a threat to go on strike which was basically greed. Sky started without ACPA authorization or agreement but to be honest - it was the right thing to do. Jazz was becoming a monster that we could no longer feed. Greed based doom
[/quote]
Wow, just wow! This reeks of the hate you’re criticizing.
You know, first of all a memory refresher, ACPA gave AC permission to explore the possibility of creating SR. AC argued to the arbitrator that they spent 5 million on that exploration and would be money wasted if not allowed to proceed.
If Jazz was a monster you could no longer feed, which btw is a sound bite from management, ACPA Pilots would’ve gained the work back. SR put pressure on your wages as well and for @#$! sakes, if you’re a pilot you should apply to a management position because your certainly on their side of the fence.
So, if you ask for a raise or refuse to allow a degradation of your workings conditions, it’s greed. Where do you work, you have my FULL support and I’d even bring coffee and donuts to your picket line should it ever come to that, but based on your post I get the impression you’d cross the line on struck work and flip us the bird if we were in that position.
Thanks for all you do for the industry!
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#148 Post by AvifiskAlly » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:13 pm

mbav8r wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:33 pm
AvifiskAlly wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:52 pm
[quote="Art Garfunkel" post_id=<a href="tel:1030612">1030612</a> time=<a href="tel:1519242640">1519242640</a> user_id=45935]
I get the impression that there is no ownership for the creation of Sky Regional by ACPA. Wasn't there a clause in the old contract that limited regional flying to just one carrier? (JAZZ). I know, I know, that clause was taken out by FOS arbitration. But was it? Not pointing fingers here, but I hate it when we blame other pilots for taking jobs that are out there on the free market for less than other jobs. We let it happen!

Time to stop looking in the past and look to control the future. I hate Swoop, Sky, GGN and Rouge for everything that it stands for……Lowering the Pilot Profession. Time to unite and realize that we do need one controlling body to control pilot wages and working conditions. We have seen what happens when corporations are left to it.

Time for ACPA to come back!
Time for Sky to organize!
Time for WJ pilots to unite and say no to lowering wages!
Time for Pilots in Canada to stand together like brothers/sisters go forward with wages and not backwards!

Get a life. It is a competitive business. Hate, Swoop, Sky, GGN all you want but the reality is the work these guys do would have been lost in any case. Sky and Georgian to American regionals and Swoop and other ULCC’s to more Canadians driving to the US for flights or simply not flying. The ULCC’s stimulate new markets and that results in industry growth.

BTW AC was not the pilot group that started Sky it was Jazz by being the most expensive regional in the world and a threat to go on strike which was basically greed. Sky started without ACPA authorization or agreement but to be honest - it was the right thing to do. Jazz was becoming a monster that we could no longer feed. Greed based doom
Wow, just wow! This reeks of the hate you’re criticizing.
You know, first of all a memory refresher, ACPA gave AC permission to explore the possibility of creating SR. AC argued to the arbitrator that they spent 5 million on that exploration and would be money wasted if not allowed to proceed.
If Jazz was a monster you could no longer feed, which btw is a sound bite from management, ACPA Pilots would’ve gained the work back. SR put pressure on your wages as well and for @#$! sakes, if you’re a pilot you should apply to a management position because your certainly on their side of the fence.
So, if you ask for a raise or refuse to allow a degradation of your workings conditions, it’s greed. Where do you work, you have my FULL support and I’d even bring coffee and donuts to your picket line should it ever come to that, but based on your post I get the impression you’d cross the line on struck work and flip us the bird if we were in that position.
Thanks for all you do for the industry!
[/quote]


One thing for sure is that if more pilots thought like you do there would be a lot less of us working. You essentially say - lets protect the top end and screw the rest of you guys. Why don’t we just give all our jobs to US regionals and international ULCC’s??? Wow - just wow is right you are a serious dreamer if you think Sky jobs were coming back in-house you are smoking the good stuff Jazz is too expensive and back in the day Rouge did not have the ability to upscale Express work so the US regionals would have been in here eating your lunch.
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mbav8r
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#149 Post by mbav8r » Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:07 pm

Part of me thinks I should just ignore you, I read through your 32 posts to get an idea of who you are, one things for sure, you’re an antagonist.
If ACPA didn’t give their blessing to AC to explore, it’s very likely the scope that had Jazz as the exclusive provider would not have changed, that change was driven by people like you who ate the shit sandwich they’ve been fed by management.
Tell me if Canadian Airlines enjoy a near 50% wage advantage and regional airlines in the US are unable to fulfill their obligations as it is, how exactly would they be doing more?
Thank god there aren’t many pilots like you, we would all be flying at GGN wages if it were up to you, all in the name of competition. Put your money where your mouth is, apply to swoop and show us the way to a better career! Wouldn’t want those American ULCCs coming here and stealing our jobs.
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Art Garfunkel
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Re: Swoop Blacklist

#150 Post by Art Garfunkel » Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:19 pm

US Regionals?….Good luck. They can't even find pilots to fly point to point in the US. Plus, I think they are a lot more expensive than say 5 years ago.

International ULCC's?….Isn't Norwegian just about bankrupt?

Jazz too expensive?….probably. They have a VP for this and a VP for that and then 6 more VP's that who knows what they do. Plus, who made them expensive? Oh, that's right. The CPA deal that made the sale of Jazz possible raising all kinds of capital for the purchases of 777's and EMB's circa 2004-2007. (I know it wasn't just the sale of Jazz that raised capital)

Jazz PILOTS too expensive?…..absolutely not. What's wrong with having a regional pilot making a good wage. They are, after all, pilots that complete flights safely and professionally just like any other pilot. In one day, they move close to the same amount of passengers as a mainline pilot. Those passengers are high yielding passengers too. The US market place is changing rapidly with more mainline flights taking over regional flights due to the lack of 1500 hr ATPL's. US regionals are fighting over those pilots and thus have increased their wages significantly.

So yes, let's all work for less so everyone can become a pilot. Wait. Haven't we gone down this road before and low and behold the young people are just not getting into this profession because the pay is low. Now what? I will let you know as soon as I get a life.
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