WestJet Link is delaying launch date

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x-wind
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WestJet Link is delaying launch date

Post by x-wind »

Investors are worried about execution of the many changes happening at WS, this has been communicated as their biggest issue.

Link has been delayed & WS states it is a Pasco operational reason. Edit: they've now say it is for regulatory approval.

Westjet pilots have been offered a two year Leave of Absence for Swoop- this on the day of the Link news. In addition to the LOA- the compensation package for Swoop has increased.

It seems the pilots would be in a good position to negotiate Swoop contracting if they don't take this LOA offer & the launch date is truly at risk in June.
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Re: WestJet Link is delaying launch date

Post by infiniteregulus »

Or they can start posting ads like this, where the whole of North America can make a joke about it (not realizing it's reality lol):

(Skip to 1:01)
"Screengrabs: Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkJ9_9azxn0
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altiplano
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Re: WestJet Link is delaying launch date

Post by altiplano »

re:Swoop

The reason they are offering leaves and bumping the pay package is they are realising there aren't enough experienced people applying who are available/willing to do it.

re:Link

I doubt it's regulatory approval.

It's a TC rubber stamp if there ever was one to get another Canadian operator to do domestic flying for you.
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altiplano
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Re: WestJet Link is delaying launch date

Post by altiplano »

re:Swoop

The reason they are offering leaves and bumping the pay package is they are realising there aren't enough experienced people applying who are available/willing to do it.

re:Link

I doubt it's regulatory approval.

It's a TC rubber stamp if there ever was one to get another Canadian operator to do domestic flying for you.
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rudder
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Re: WestJet Link is delaying launch date

Post by rudder »

x-wind wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:02 am Investors are worried about execution of the many changes happening at WS, this has been communicated as their biggest issue.

Link has been delayed & WS states it is a Pasco operational reason. Edit: they've now say it is for regulatory approval.

Westjet pilots have been offered a two year Leave of Absence for Swoop- this on the day of the Link news. In addition to the LOA- the compensation package for Swoop has increased.

It seems the pilots would be in a good position to negotiate Swoop contracting if they don't take this LOA offer & the launch date is truly at risk in June.
So what is it the WJ management is trying to accomplish with the LOA/bonus scheme now being offered at SWOOP? Are they trying to entice current WJ FO’s to treat this as their only realistic near term upgrade opportunity?

And for OTS - with the new 1st/2nd anniversary cash bonus, who is WJ management hoping to attract? Current FLAIR CA? CargoJet CA? Skyregional CA? Jazz CA?

This entire alter ego pilot staffing arrangement is just a formula for long term labour pain and conflict.

If I were WJ I would propose that SWOOP be staffed with WJ pilots at current pay scales minus 15%. Then agree that the final dispensation for SWOOP WAWCON be a matter for proper bargaining between ALPA and WJ. If the parties disagree on the SWOOP WAWCON then the matter will be submitted to binding arbitration (SWOOP WAWCON only). Any differential in SWOOP pilot pay that falls in the pilots favour will be repaid retroactively.

SWOOP will be WJ Rouge. Time to start treating it that way.
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Re: WestJet Link is delaying launch date

Post by x-wind »

Hey Rudder,

They're trying to get their new airline to launch on time & showing a little desperation late in the game.

Rouge is completely different then Swoop. There is hardly any comparison as to how it developed & how Swoop has, especially from a pilot standpoint. Rouge was negotiated between pilots & executives.

I don't think your hypothetical plan of having the executives offer 15% less would work. It's a pretty straightforward to the pilots what they should get for a deal. Any signs of weakness, which WJ is now showing, certainly isn't going to change that resolve. Why do you think that the pilots will have to compromise (if I read you correctly), especially in consideration of this news?
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rudder
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Re: WestJet Link is delaying launch date

Post by rudder »

x-wind wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:35 pm Hey Rudder,

They're trying to get their new airline to launch on time & showing a little desperation late in the game.

Rouge is completely different then Swoop. There is hardly any comparison as to how it developed & how Swoop has, especially from a pilot standpoint. Rouge was negotiated between pilots & executives.

I don't think your hypothetical plan of having the executives offer 15% less would work. It's a pretty straightforward to the pilots what they should get for a deal. Any signs of weakness, which WJ is now showing, certainly isn't going to change that resolve. Why do you think that the pilots will have to compromise (if I read you correctly), especially in consideration of this news?
If SWOOP opens with non-seniority list pilots, then the WJ pilots will be stuck with the task of trying to put the genie back in the bottle. If some current WJ pilots take the LOA route being offered then they may be ostracized. It will become a messy problem and it would be better to keep the operation staffed with seniority list pilots.

Having a retroactive agreement to restore pay (if applicable) seems reasonable as a quid pro quo for the exclusive use of WJ pilots to staff SWOOP while collective bargaining goes on.

It remains to be seen whether the fate of SWOOP will be that of ZIP or ROUGE, but in both those cases the cockpits were staffed with AC seniority list pilots.

Are there better options being offered or proposed?
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Re: WestJet Link is delaying launch date

Post by x-wind »

Yeah it's a tough situation Rudder, I'll agree with your general sentiment there. But that is it.

Westjet has been hiring pilots off the street for Swoop now for awhile now. Swoop will inevitably open with non-seniority list pilots. There is no offer or proposition to change that dynamic. Next, the idea to help a company start the job at lower pay & then try to negotiate more later really isn't very reasonable for the employees negotiations. It, quiet obviously, takes away one of the largest bargaining chips on the table & it buys the company a lot of time to continue hiring outside pilots.

The proposition being put forth is the WJ pilots support their representation & not go to work for Swoop until it's fully negotiated.

What do ya think?
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rudder
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Re: WestJet Link is delaying launch date

Post by rudder »

x-wind wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:22 pm Yeah it's a tough situation Rudder, I'll agree with your general sentiment there. But that is it.

Westjet has been hiring pilots off the street for Swoop now for awhile now. Swoop will inevitably open with non-seniority list pilots. There is no offer or proposition to change that dynamic. Next, the idea to help a company start the job at lower pay & then try to negotiate more later really isn't very reasonable for the employees negotiations. It, quiet obviously, takes away one of the largest bargaining chips on the table & it buys the company a lot of time to continue hiring outside pilots.

The proposition being put forth is the WJ pilots support their representation & not go to work for Swoop until it's fully negotiated.

What do ya think?
I agree that any current WJ pilot that takes an LOA to go to SWOOP would be placing themself in a very tenuous position with their peers.

The company unwillingness to recognize that the WJ pilots made a choice in representation is an avoidable and unfortunate circumstance.

But the way it looks is that neither party is going to get exactly what they want in the next 90 days. A bridge agreement on staffing and pay seems the only way to avoid watching the problem grow beyond the bounds of an acceptable long term solution.

But who knows, perhaps management aren’t even willing to bargain. That too will come at a price. They forget that there are 1400 pissed off WJ pilots. This confrontation makes as much sense as picking a fight with your spouse. You are stuck together so it behooves the company to be solution oriented.
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pacman007
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Re: WestJet Link is delaying launch date

Post by pacman007 »

I think you all have missed something! In Westjet contract that is now frozen it says it has to be crewed with pilots off the WPDL. It doesn't say that have to only offer it to the Westjet pilots. My guess is that ALPA is doing what ever that can to make management at Westjet just sit down for a day and get this figured out! More and more it seems management at Westjet is doing what ever they can to not negotiate for whatever reason.
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Re: WestJet Link is delaying launch date

Post by Blue42 »

x-wind wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:35 pm Hey Rudder,

They're trying to get their new airline to launch on time & showing a little desperation late in the game.

Rouge is completely different then Swoop. There is hardly any comparison as to how it developed & how Swoop has, especially from a pilot standpoint. Rouge was negotiated between pilots & executives.

I don't think your hypothetical plan of having the executives offer 15% less would work. It's a pretty straightforward to the pilots what they should get for a deal. Any signs of weakness, which WJ is now showing, certainly isn't going to change that resolve. Why do you think that the pilots will have to compromise (if I read you correctly), especially in consideration of this news?
Rouge was not negotiated at all, it was part of the arbitration
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Re: WestJet Link is delaying launch date

Post by x-wind »

Pacman007 I'm not missing that point, I've been reading these forums for awhile now.

Hey Rudder,

I see no reason why the pilots would even consider a compromise in the scenario where WJ NEEDS them to launch Swoop & they're hiring outside pilots anyway.
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Re: WestJet Link is delaying launch date

Post by rudder »

pacman007 wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:26 pm I think you all have missed something! In Westjet contract that is now frozen it says it has to be crewed with pilots off the WPDL. It doesn't say that have to only offer it to the Westjet pilots. My guess is that ALPA is doing what ever that can to make management at Westjet just sit down for a day and get this figured out! More and more it seems management at Westjet is doing what ever they can to not negotiate for whatever reason.
I agree that there is a sustained case for statutory freeze. But there will be an inevitable lag between argument and legal edict. And justice delayed can sometimes be justice denied.

Achieving the agreement NOW that Swoop will be crewed by WPDL would represent a significant logistical victory for the WJ pilots. Achieving that concurrence may come with a temporary concession.

I hope things work out. Most of us believed that the days of union busting ended in the 80’s. But it turns out that there are still robber barons waiting in the wings to try to circumvent professional pilots right to organize and bargain.
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Re: WestJet Link is delaying launch date

Post by tailgunner »

I sure hope that instead of heading into GS, hat in hand, to take a concession, the pilot group at WJ finds their proverbial bits ‘n pieces and tells GS NFW. I would hope that on the start up day, if the WJ pilots’ don’t have an equitable agreement, every flight pushes 15 late, every flight is NOT groomed, and every manager knows why.
GS is rolling the dice against 1400 solid employees to chase a nebulous profit in a niche that hardly exists. He is doing it on the backs of his crew.
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Re: WestJet Link is delaying launch date

Post by Oldcommercialpilot »

Nailed it
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Re: WestJet Link is delaying launch date

Post by atphat »

tailgunner wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:22 pm I sure hope that instead of heading into GS, hat in hand, to take a concession, the pilot group at WJ finds their proverbial bits ‘n pieces and tells GS NFW. I would hope that on the start up day, if the WJ pilots’ don’t have an equitable agreement, every flight pushes 15 late, every flight is NOT groomed, and every manager knows why.
GS is rolling the dice against 1400 solid employees to chase a nebulous profit in a niche that hardly exists. He is doing it on the backs of his crew.
What would that prove? Sounds terribly ineffective. Delaying any action until the airline is flying probably isn’t the best idea either.
Edit. Too negative.
Good luck to the WJ group. Hopefully it’s all resolved soon.
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Last edited by atphat on Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WestJet Link is delaying launch date

Post by privateer »

Should be interesting times for the next year or more. The only guy who I could see considering Swoop is 1st and 2nd year F/Os at mainline who are stuck out east.
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Re: WestJet Link is delaying launch date

Post by Ah_yeah »

The way I see it, both parties are fighting for their jobs. Gregg et al have started down a road of labor unrest. If negative PR and stock performance come next because they chose to try and bust a fledging union under dubious legal grounds, they're dust. I wouldn't be in a rush to help this guy save his hide.
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Re: WestJet Link is delaying launch date

Post by infiniteregulus »

So why not the negative PR on this? Where's these CBC reporters when we need em? Somebody send them an email! hahaha
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Re: WestJet Link is delaying launch date

Post by tailgunner »

AT,
Full disclosure: I am an AC pilot. I fully support my fellow pilots at WJ.
What the industry has seen, and frankly marvelled at, over the history of WJ is what a fantastic service, outcome, and operation that can be achieved by motivated, engaged, and valued pilots. Our own CEO has apparently come to this realization, and has publicly said so. What GS and the rest of the WJ board need to now realize is the costs to undermining this relationship. I would think that the WJ pilot group needs to immediately display what a fractured relationship means to real time operations and profit. Concretely, this could manifest itself in No MEL's accepted by the PIC. No single engine taxi, No grooming after a hard flight. No eating a boxed lunch/ sandwich in the cockpit between tightly scheduled turns. No flying fatigued, No extra flying accepted, No helping out just this once. Telling the agents to board the aircraft on the Captain's timetable and not their own. Not asking for the 'short gate'. Taxiing should be done at a fast walking pace....Not giving a $hit if they are written up and reported to the internal Gestapo by not being Westjetty enough.
Am I naive enough to think that this will bring Swoop to an abrupt end? No, but I am sure that there would be some pointed questions of the existing direction and plans if, for example, GS was forced to contract groomers because of dirty cabins....fuel usage going up, missed connections, airplanes getting ALL of the deferred maintenance.....you get my drift.
Cheers.
In solidarity from an AC guy.
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