Let's all apply at Swoop!

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tailgunner
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Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by tailgunner » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:55 am

Just thinking, what if we all applied at Swoop? I'm thinking if their HR department receives 1000 applications for aircrew, books interviews, and everybody NO-SHOWS.....might be a bit of fun....
Of course, we could all be lucky and meet NCP in person, because if he is a man of integrity, he will have already applied for his WJ LOA.....
Cheers.
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AvifiskAlly
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by AvifiskAlly » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:00 am

tailgunner wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:55 am
Just thinking, what if we all applied at Swoop? I'm thinking if their HR department receives 1000 applications for aircrew, books interviews, and everybody NO-SHOWS.....might be a bit of fun....
Of course, we could all be lucky and meet NCP in person, because if he is a man of integrity, he will have already applied for his WJ LOA.....
Cheers.
And that is why pilots have a bad name
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tailgunner
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by tailgunner » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:12 am

Are you worried about what the HR department at Swoop thinks about pilots? Their terms of employment, and their salary offerings already tells you what they think about pilots.
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Alcoholism
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by Alcoholism » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:33 am

AvifiskAlly wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:00 am
tailgunner wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:55 am
Just thinking, what if we all applied at Swoop? I'm thinking if their HR department receives 1000 applications for aircrew, books interviews, and everybody NO-SHOWS.....might be a bit of fun....
Of course, we could all be lucky and meet NCP in person, because if he is a man of integrity, he will have already applied for his WJ LOA.....
Cheers.
And that is why pilots have a bad name
..... no need to put lipstick on the pig then, why start now
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AvifiskAlly
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by AvifiskAlly » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:57 am

tailgunner wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:12 am
Are you worried about what the HR department at Swoop thinks about pilots? Their terms of employment, and their salary offerings already tells you what they think about pilots.

Do you think they care if they get 1000 applicants 10,000, 100,000, they will have no problem filling their cockpits with professional pilots that dont play games. If you want the job apply and go if they give you an offer. If you don't dont apply - let's try and keep some level of respect in our profession.
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teacher
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by teacher » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:44 pm

Does this mean 1 pay scale or 2 different ones that you can switch between?
He said WestJet is negotiating with the Air Line Pilots Association, International, the union that won the right to represent WestJet pilots last year, to maintain one seniority list for all of its pilots, thus allowing pilots to move from one brand to another without losing pay and seniority rights. Under the current contract, pilots can take a leave of absence to try flying for Swoop and still return to their old jobs, he said.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/topstor ... spartandhp
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Fanblade
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by Fanblade » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:07 pm

teacher wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:44 pm
Does this mean 1 pay scale or 2 different ones that you can switch between?
He said WestJet is negotiating with the Air Line Pilots Association, International, the union that won the right to represent WestJet pilots last year, to maintain one seniority list for all of its pilots, thus allowing pilots to move from one brand to another without losing pay and seniority rights. Under the current contract, pilots can take a leave of absence to try flying for Swoop and still return to their old jobs, he said.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/topstor ... spartandhp
This is exactly how movement between AC and Rouge is managed. Pilots at Rouge are on an LOA from AC.

Two separate working conditions and pay scales exist.
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Alcoholism
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by Alcoholism » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:10 pm

AvifiskAlly wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:57 am
tailgunner wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:12 am
Are you worried about what the HR department at Swoop thinks about pilots? Their terms of employment, and their salary offerings already tells you what they think about pilots.

Do you think they care if they get 1000 applicants 10,000, 100,000, they will have no problem filling their cockpits with professional pilots that dont play games. If you want the job apply and go if they give you an offer. If you don't dont apply - let's try and keep some level of respect in our profession.
If you think there is any shred of professionalism in our profession, you are clearly in a fantasy world where you are the only one being deceived. Same applies to each individual foolish enough to swallow that. That is why we "professionals" in Canada lag behind the rest of the world. good job though... not even close
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teacher
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by teacher » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:20 pm

Fanblade wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:07 pm
teacher wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:44 pm
Does this mean 1 pay scale or 2 different ones that you can switch between?
He said WestJet is negotiating with the Air Line Pilots Association, International, the union that won the right to represent WestJet pilots last year, to maintain one seniority list for all of its pilots, thus allowing pilots to move from one brand to another without losing pay and seniority rights. Under the current contract, pilots can take a leave of absence to try flying for Swoop and still return to their old jobs, he said.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/topstor ... spartandhp
This is exactly how movement between AC and Rouge is managed. Pilots at Rouge are on an LOA from AC.

Two separate working conditions and pay scales exist.
OK so Rouge style, 2 types of working conditions but 1 list. And to think, ACPA is trying to close the gap (albeit slowly) if not eliminate it between Rouge and Mainline.
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NewCommercialPilot
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by NewCommercialPilot » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:00 pm

tailgunner wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:55 am
Of course, we could all be lucky and meet NCP in person, because if he is a man of integrity, he will have already applied for his WJ LOA.....
Cheers.
With ALPA's threat on the table WRT seniority list construction at mainline, my integrity will have to take a back seat to self preservation.

And you know what? I'm ok with that.

(A quick update on the Android App I'm building for the Moverio BT-300...it's going great! I'm hoping to have an airworthy HUD for wingsuiting ready by mid April!)
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AvifiskAlly
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by AvifiskAlly » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:05 pm

Alcoholism wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:10 pm
AvifiskAlly wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:57 am
tailgunner wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:12 am
Are you worried about what the HR department at Swoop thinks about pilots? Their terms of employment, and their salary offerings already tells you what they think about pilots.

Do you think they care if they get 1000 applicants 10,000, 100,000, they will have no problem filling their cockpits with professional pilots that dont play games. If you want the job apply and go if they give you an offer. If you don't dont apply - let's try and keep some level of respect in our profession.
If you think there is any shred of professionalism in our profession, you are clearly in a fantasy world where you are the only one being deceived. Same applies to each individual foolish enough to swallow that. That is why we "professionals" in Canada lag behind the rest of the world. good job though... not even close
Sadly I think you are correct, I was hoping for a bit of respect for each other but............. I guess that is also too much to ask for. Also sadly the OP is probably not the bottom of the barrel
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Legacy
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by Legacy » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:57 pm

I just ask that anyone that is applying think long and hard about what you are about to do to this industry in Canada. It's been mentioned already but just take a look at Jetstar and Qantas. We are trying to make forward steps in this career and if GGG gets what he wants we will get pushed back decades. I'm sorry to say but I think for a lot of guys it will be hard to look at the swoop pilots with respect. Basically, it is devaluing the jobs at AC and WJ. If you think the short-term gain (and I do mean short term) just to get a left seat is worth it then you are sadly mistaken. In 10 years you will be asking yourself "Hey why am I making less now than what a WJ captain made 10 years ago". Take it from the guys that have been down this road and learn from others mistakes instead of making your own.
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Rupert.Pupkin
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by Rupert.Pupkin » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:19 pm

Anyone that goes to Swoop is a scab and hopefully will be treated like one by the rest of us. I know I’ll do my part.
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tailgunner
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by tailgunner » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:24 pm

“Professional “ and pilots “ that don’t play games “ do not undercut the careers of others for their own short term gain. Those who accept employment at Swoop have exposed themselves.
Cheers
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by JohnnyHotRocks » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:08 pm

I think most pilots outside WJ don't really care
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by RRJetPilot » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:27 pm

"Pilot recruitment is progressing well, Saretsky said, adding his preference is to allow pilots from WestJet and WestJet Encore to seek promotions with the new airline."

https://globalnews.ca/news/4009379/west ... ne-flyers/

Take a promotion at Swoop? What is he smoking?
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tailgunner
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by tailgunner » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:46 pm

Johnny,
That is not true at all. Let’s just say that the sentiment within our ranks holds a very poor view of anyone taking Swoop positions. It hasn’t been confirmed, but as far as I know, Swoop pilots will be persona non grata with regards to any reciprocal jump seats etc..
Our leadership has already publicly stated our support for WJ pilots, furthermore, ACPA has stated it’s push for a no -hire policy from Swoop.
Cheers
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Legacy
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by Legacy » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:01 pm

ACPA said that? If so, sweet!
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tailgunner
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by tailgunner » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:13 pm

The letter has been posted on this site on one of the relevant threads..
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by Victory » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:35 pm

RRJetPilot wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:27 pm

Take a promotion at Swoop? What is he smoking?
He means WestJet FO's taking Captain spots for Swoop or Encore pilots are getting 737 spots.
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Legacy
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by Legacy » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:38 pm

disregard
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by neophyte » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:43 pm

Pilots have a bad name?
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by schnitzel2k3 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:35 pm

JohnnyHotRocks wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:08 pm
I think most pilots outside WJ don't really care
I don't think every pilot in Canada applying to Swoop is coming from a background of knowing the internal strife that the WS pilots and management are going through.

I think it is unfair to blanket them as 'scabs' or refuse to accept applications down the road. For all they know - it's just a seat that pays better than where they are coming from.

Had I been in a different situation with my career and not had the opportunity to learn about the conflicts at WS, I may have thought of applying.

Fortunately I am one of the lucky pilots who loves what he does and gets compensated appropriately for it.

Everyone has a story - it might be worth listening before throwing mud. I am guilty of that from time to time but I try to learn and do better. You guys should too.

Glad to hear things are moving to internalize this under the WS umbrella.

S.
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by altiplano » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:19 pm

Fact is, everyone with a pulse and an ATPL today can get a pretty fucking decent job... and be on the way to a much better job and a rewarding career.

Basically every 705 carrier in the country pays better, certainly every 737 job in Canada pays better...

Do your want to take a big shit on the future you? Do you want to submarine your future earnings?

Because that's what you do if you take a job like this... You depress the wages of all those jobs you are thinking that you are going to stepping stone to through this seat.

Air Canada bid today has 420 unfilled seats. WestJet is short. Jazz is short. Sunwing, Cargojet, Morningstar, Transat, Sky... all the commuter turboprop operators... everyone needs pilots, the world is short pilots.

By selling yourself short today for a shit wage, even if you think "it's better than what I make today" you are fucking yourself in the future and everyone else trying to progress this position today because you force everyone else's rate down. You know, the rate that you want to be yours one day.

Even the ULCC 737 Pilots in the US make more than Air Canada WIDEBODY Pilots make, and 40-50% more than Mainline AC/WJ 737/320 pilots make.

Don't let them USE you.

CHEAP FARES, NOT CHEAP PILOTS.
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by Legacy » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:12 am

schnitzel2k3 wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:35 pm
JohnnyHotRocks wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:08 pm
I think most pilots outside WJ don't really care
I don't think every pilot in Canada applying to Swoop is coming from a background of knowing the internal strife that the WS pilots and management are going through.

I think it is unfair to blanket them as 'scabs' or refuse to accept applications down the road. For all they know - it's just a seat that pays better than where they are coming from.

Had I been in a different situation with my career and not had the opportunity to learn about the conflicts at WS, I may have thought of applying.

Fortunately I am one of the lucky pilots who loves what he does and gets compensated appropriately for it.

Everyone has a story - it might be worth listening before throwing mud. I am guilty of that from time to time but I try to learn and do better. You guys should too.

Glad to hear things are moving to internalize this under the WS umbrella.

S.
Then a person should do their homework 1) before getting into the industry, 2) before applying at swoop. I don’t think your reasoning will cut it.
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