Let's all apply at Swoop!

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atphat
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by atphat »

Just more blah blah blah :roll:
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AvifiskAlly
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by AvifiskAlly »

FL410AV8R wrote: Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:16 pm
tbaylx wrote: Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:51 pm

Yes the concilliation process should help move things along and get everyone talking at least. The process can certainly take time though. The CIRB simply went back to the existing WJPA contract on the LOA. I'm not sure that's much of a victory for the MEC.
Two minor corrections here for the sake of keeping things factual.

The conciliation process will definitely move things along as there is a finite timeframe for conciliation to occur, sixty days (ends on April 27th 2018) from the appointment of the conciliator he/she is bound to write their report to the Minister of Labour. The only way the conciliation period can be extended beyond 60 days is if ALL parties involved agree that significant progress is being made. If any party does not agree that genuine progress is being made, and will continue to be made then the parties will be released by the conciliator. This begins the 21 day cooling off period during which negotiations and progress can still occur but it too is a finite timeline ending in mid May.

So IMHO and from my experience in previous contract negotiations things are either going to move rapidly to a sensible conclusion before Swoop's launch at the beginning of June or they will go completely off the rails and the WestJet and the WestJet pilots will be in a legal strike/lockout position in the middle of May. I don't believe there will be much of an appetite for a middle ground given the company's antics up to this point.

Secondly, the CIRB did not go back to anything in the existing WJPA agreement. The company changed the company-wide LOA policy to suit its own needs (offering Swoop positions by favouritism) during the statutory freeze with absolutely no consultation or input from ALPA. The CIRB ruled that they violated the statutory freeze and had to cease and desist from bargaining around the union and had to rescind any LOAs already awarded. This is a significant feather in the cap of ALPA MEC.
Doesn't that just mean more OTS? Just asking - have no idea.
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complexintentions
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by complexintentions »

atphat wrote: Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:02 am Just more blah blah blah :roll
Really, I have no horse in this race. Just here for the entertainment value of watching people twist themselves into contortions trying to convince themselves and everyone's else they're doing God's Work fighting for a "progressive contract" (blah blah blah) when it's just plain old naked self-interest. :mrgreen:

At least buddy there worried about his upgrade is honest about it.

There are tons of people who'll take the Swoop jobs if they feel like it. But only if the conditions are worth it. That's what so amusing - if the pay is as bad as all the dire warnings, there's nothing to worry about. Yet people are obviously very worried. Suck and blow.

The WestJet pilots can't "win" against management, because they've already lost. Forget the CIRB ruling, wen there's this much animosity in the Koolaid Kingdom...you've already lost. Dissent was the true goal, and objective achieved.

And didn't appear very hard for the PTB.

Keep on rockin' in the free world, comrades. :supz:
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schnitzel2k3
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

complexintentions wrote: Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:30 pm
atphat wrote: Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:02 am Just more blah blah blah :roll
Really, I have no horse in this race. Just here for the entertainment value of watching people twist themselves into contortions trying to convince themselves and everyone's else they're doing God's Work fighting for a "progressive contract" (blah blah blah) when it's just plain old naked self-interest. :mrgreen:

At least buddy there worried about his upgrade is honest about it.

There are tons of people who'll take the Swoop jobs if they feel like it. But only if the conditions are worth it. That's what so amusing - if the pay is as bad as all the dire warnings, there's nothing to worry about. Yet people are obviously very worried. Suck and blow.

The WestJet pilots can't "win" against management, because they've already lost. Forget the CIRB ruling, wen there's this much animosity in the Koolaid Kingdom...you've already lost. Dissent was the true goal, and objective achieved.

And didn't appear very hard for the PTB.

Keep on rockin' in the free world, comrades. :supz:
Be careful speaking such blasphemy, or they'll brand you as *gasp* NCP or his many personalities. :rolleyes:

S.
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CaptainHaddock
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by CaptainHaddock »

‘Swoop will still have OTS pilots already on the property.’

I don’t think there are any actual living/breathing OTS Swoop Pilots on property yet, I think the hired ones don’t start until April. But maybe like snuffleupagus they do actually exist now.

Any Swoopsters or NCP derivatives out there to comment?
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Billions of Bilious Blue Blistering Barnacles!
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by Longtimer »

You have to wonder where the trained pilots will be coming from.

WestJet: Swoop still headed for June takeoff despite issues with pilot union

By: Staff The Canadian Press Published on Wed Mar 07 2018


CALGARY — WestJet Airlines says it's still on course to launch its new Swoop ultra-low-cost carrier despite unresolved bargaining issues with the Air Line Pilots Association, as the two sides negotiate a first contract.


The Canada Industrial Relations Board recently ordered WestJet to withdraw a new policy of offering its pilots a two-year leave of absence if they go to fly for Swoop.

The ALPA complained that the policy, posted by WestJet on Jan. 31, was a significant change in the company's terms of employment and an interference with the union's right to represent the pilots.

A CIRB ruling dated March 2 and announced on Tuesday agreed that the policy could pose "substantial irreparable harm to the union" and noted that the alleged violation came during "the sensitive period of collective bargaining."

It also said its order revoking the leave policy would remain in place until either a related complaint of unfair labour practices was dealt with by the board, or a collective agreement is reached.

A WestJet representative decline to be interviewed on the CIRB's decision but said in an email that the launch of Swoop is on track for its first flight in June.
"WestJet remains committed to engaging in constructive dialogue with ALPA and we are optimistic we will come to a fair and reasonable agreement," the company said Wednesday.


The ALPA represents about 1,500 pilots at WestJet's main service and 500 at its WestJet Encore regional service.
WestJet is aiming to launch Swoop with three aircraft in June and grow to six by September.


By the spring of next year, Swoop would have 10 planes and eventually reach 30 to 40 aircraft on domestic and international flights.
Story Link: http://www.metronews.ca/news/calgary/20 ... union.html
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Boney
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by Boney »

You are missing an important point. Notwithstanding WestJet owns both, Wja & Swoop, they are different companies with different OC’s. Therefore, although work is being contracted to WJA, Swoop can and will get whatever training contracts needed by any company that will provide it at a reasonable cost.

The offer to WJA pilots, via LOA, was to bring WestJet’s culture and experiences as well as have WJA pilots having a foot in the door to bring all parties on board, to eventually have a similar arrangement like Encore, aka one list.

However, pilots are applying and training will be done with or without WJA involvement.

But as usual, ALPA and the many of its pilots, especially those that will now slam my post, is thinking like an employee vs an owner, which we all did, up to a few years ago.

ALPA is thinking only in the present and not to the future. Collaboration would keep you at the table vs getting a memo, thus ensuring job protection to all three enterprises.

The salary bit I do understand but, just like Encore when they first started vs today, Swoop would also see an increase as well. If only ALPA collaborate. Aw well, opportunity lost.

IMHO.

Flame away boys as I step aside and watch you go ape and increase your blood pressure. Lol
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RidersRule
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by RidersRule »

DONT FEED THE TROLL
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GAF
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by GAF »

With the way things are going, and the mess this company is in, I would not be surprised to see a change at the top in the near future.
Labour unrest, Swoop to begin flying in just over 3 month and 787's showing up in 10 months with no routes announced and no base announced, perhpes this present leadership is completely overwhelmed ? Time will tell.
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Boney
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by Boney »

RidersRule wrote: Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:47 pm DONT FEED THE TROLL
Lol. Believe it or not, I agree.

Interesting times ahead with this project and the other starting next year.

Cheers
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Maritimer
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Re: Let's all apply at Swoop!

Post by Maritimer »

complexintentions wrote: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:40 am Meh. So much focus on protecting your own asses, but no analysis of how it may affect the overall operation. No wonder pilots are shit businessmen! :mrgreen:

But hey, it's Canada where the tail wags the dog. I'm not surprised. It's the current political climate - 180 degrees from the US. That should work.

Ultimately, the adversarial approach will just cause more pain down the road. The writing is on the wall.

Well you got one thing right. As we found out today, the writing was absolutely on the wall for someone....
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