alpa hidden agenda

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NewCommercialPilot
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alpa hidden agenda

#1 Post by NewCommercialPilot » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:43 am

Been at westjet 13 years now. Haven't said boo to anybody about anything except my close friends. Just did my job. But I have to speak up.

I am disgusted at the way things have turned out. We were told the relationship would not change with wppa and then with alpa. Well it did. And how are we better off?

Now I see our mec is promising a contract before summer because we derseve it. How about you just negotiate the best possible contract and take your time to do so!!!!!!!!!!!!! What is the rush???????? We already have a good contract vaild till 2019. Why the threats to cause economic harm after conciliator and cooling off????????? What's the agenda???????

Then a friend told me why management thinks there is an agenda to make westjet look like the bad guy.

This is about money.

Jetblue pilots have been paying dues for almost three years month after certifying and still no contract for them. Maybe explains why not so much pressure for alpa to get them a contract. they're getting their money.

But westjet pilots??????? We don't pay dues yet because Canada laws are different. 8 months since certifying, alpa gets nothing from us and wont until we get our first cba. That's why its a contractr by the summer and forget about a good conmtract one list and instead blacklist and poison waters. they want a conciliator to get us a contract no matter how crappy and how badly it screws encore. and how bad it is for the rest of us. it just doesn't matter. dues dues dues

Alpa just wants our money.

I heard a few more guys resigned from alpa last week. I'm so mad. I think I'll do it too. I dont care. I'm done with the lies and agenda. i dont recognize westjet in how they descibe it. I have just a few years to retirement, i hope. Maybe we'll get unifor or back to wjpa before my last day here. anything is better than the joke that is these guys. i guess it would be a joke if it was funny but this aint funny. except for senior guys who saw this coming. funny and sad. then mad at alpa supporters.

done
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lostaviator
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Re: alpa hidden agenda

#2 Post by lostaviator » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:35 am

At first I was going to say JS, but he uses punctuation.

ALPA can't take their time to negotiate when the company ISN'T SHOWING UP to negotiating sessions and are breaking Canada Labour Code to disrupt the process. Have you taken the time to ask a member of the LEC/MEC if ALPA is pushing for these steps? I'm going to go ahead and say you probably haven't.

It's amateur hour around here, and it isn't because because of the pilots/ALPA.

Give your head a shake, of course "management" is going to say things like that. They want our old agreement to last for as long as possible. If we are as overpaid and treated as fairly as they claim we are, and they had the facts to back those statements, they would be showing up and trying to get a new (reduced) contract in as soon as possible.
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lostaviator
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Re: alpa hidden agenda

#3 Post by lostaviator » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:46 am

P.S. ALPA member or not, you'll be paying the union dues once a contract is in place. So you are only harming yourself by not being involved in the process in a constructive manner. Rushed or not, we will need to vote on it after.
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Re: alpa hidden agenda

#4 Post by Fanblade » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:08 am

WeedPro2000 wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:43 am

Then a friend told me why management thinks there is an agenda to make westjet look like the bad guy.
Just step back from all the things stepping up the anxiety levels.

When your group unionized WJ management had a choice to make. Were they going create a constructive working relationship or an acrimonious one. They made a choice.

Forget what they are saying to you. Look only at the actions. Notice the words and actions are polar opposites.

They have chosen to have an acrimonious relationship with your pilot group. It is just strategy. It’s not personal. Don’t let it divide you as that is what management wants.

A year from now this will be a distant memory and WJ pilots will be at the controls at swoop.

As for your money rationalization. Everything is about money. But you have the motivation wrong. The more you make? The more ALPA makes.
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cjet
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Re: alpa hidden agenda

#5 Post by cjet » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:11 am

Weed pro.

I don’t know if you’ve taken the time to read our contract but it is terrible. It needs to be fixed fast not in 2 years.

Cjet
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Re: alpa hidden agenda

#6 Post by Longtimer » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:41 am

CEOs with MBAs VS. CEOs without MBAs
Published on November 21, 2016
Like7Comment0ShareShare 0
Nicolas Neysen
Nicolas Neysen
FollowNicolas Neysen
A striking research on CEOs' behaviour.

"Danny Miller, a research professor at HEC Montreal, partnered with Xiaowei Xu, an assistant professor at the University of Rhode Island, to analyze the performance of 444 celebrated U.S. CEOs—those featured on Fortune, Forbes, and BusinessWeekcovers from 1970 to 2008. Miller and Xu tracked their firms’ growth strategies and performance and the CEOs’ compensation, and found that CEOs with MBAs were more likely to engage in behavior that benefited them but hurt their companies. Specifically, they pursued costlier growth strategies and were less able to sustain superior performance than their non-MBA counterparts" An article by Nicole Torres.
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Victory
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Re: alpa hidden agenda

#7 Post by Victory » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:50 pm

How about pilots with degrees vs pilots without degrees. This rant reads like a school girl's text message.
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Re: alpa hidden agenda

#8 Post by flyinhigh » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:06 pm

I love how all the posts that bitch about ALPA are coming from people that just signed up here.

They all read like NCP, which apparently has to much time on his hands and won't answer anyone's questions.
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seriousflyer
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Re: alpa hidden agenda

#9 Post by seriousflyer » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:57 pm

OP sounds a little emotional and on edge from last week's news. This is all part of negotiations. Let the professionals at ALPA and the trusted MEC do their jobs.

Nobody wants a successful outcome more than ALPA and MEC.
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Re: alpa hidden agenda

#10 Post by YVR Lurker » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:13 pm

WeedPro2000 wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:43 am
Been at westjet 13 years now. Haven't said boo to anybody about anything except my close friends. Just did my job. But I have to speak up.

I am disgusted at the way things have turned out. We were told the relationship would not change with wppa and then with alpa. Well it did. And how are we better off?

Now I see our mec is promising a contract before summer because we derseve it. How about you just negotiate the best possible contract and take your time to do so!!!!!!!!!!!!! What is the rush???????? We already have a good contract vaild till 2019. Why the threats to cause economic harm after conciliator and cooling off????????? What's the agenda???????

Then a friend told me why management thinks there is an agenda to make westjet look like the bad guy.

This is about money

Jetblue pilots have been paying dues for almost three years month after certifying and still no contract for them. Maybe explains why not so much pressure for alpa to get them a contract. they're getting their money.

But westjet pilots??????? We don't pay dues yet because Canada laws are different. 8 months since certifying, alpa gets nothing from us and wont until we get our first cba. That's why its a contractr by the summer and forget about a good conmtract one list and instead blacklist and poison waters. they want a conciliator to get us a contract no matter how crappy and how badly it screws encore. and how bad it is for the rest of us. it just doesn't matter. dues dues dues

Alpa just wants our money.

I heard a few more guys resigned from alpa last week. I'm so mad. I think I'll do it too. I dont care. I'm done with the lies and agenda. i dont recognize westjet in how they descibe it. I have just a few years to retirement, i hope. Maybe we'll get unifor or back to wjpa before my last day here. anything is better than the joke that is these guys. i guess it would be a joke if it was funny but this aint funny. except for senior guys who saw this coming. funny and sad. then mad at alpa supporters.

done

Nice try Swallow. Painful read, you trying to be an illiterate moron so nobody connects the dots.
Bravo
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Re: alpa hidden agenda

#11 Post by YVR Lurker » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:45 pm

Forum keep an eye on how many “weedpro2000” posts pop up after this lame ass anti ALPA post.

Fucking loser. Your fight against your current representatives is a cancer.

Try harder next time John, with less intentional grammar and punctuation errors, that way you may actually fool some people, fucktard.
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Re: alpa hidden agenda

#12 Post by Greenbastard » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:29 am

JS you need to go get, and enjoy life. It’s fine that you chose not to support your representatives and your pilot group, that’s your choice. Let’s be clear nobody will follow your lead off a cliff. People read your posts with mild amusement ( like a Trump tweet ).Your posts are foolish and cowardly.
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Re: alpa hidden agenda

#13 Post by Checklist » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:00 am

I see your “coming clean” thread was removed, Rotten. Very unfortunate, easily your best work.

Otherwise, I feel you were a tad overpaid.
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Re: alpa hidden agenda

#14 Post by saltypilot » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:58 am

Copied from another thread because it needs to be repeated

Rotten Apple #1, observing your posts I can’t help but feel they most certainly read like an individual with designs to draw out the worst in others. I don’t like it at all. You shouldn’t like how the words you choose seem to bring out incredibly negative responses not just from one but many. Nobody should be feeding into this awful game. It’s one nobody will win. I’d like to respectfully suggest that we divert some energy and attention away from inciting divisiveness & infighting over to adding value to aviators lives. Can we agree that would be a more constructive use of our time?

I’ll be the first to say I’m as guilty as anyone else of getting swept up in the emotion after all it’s really easy to get caught up in the politics of it all because our professional careers are attached to the outcomes so they MUST be positive outcomes. The alternative is unacceptable. Our families or our future families suffer every ounce as much as we do in every decision that is made throughout this process.

In a day and age where everyone is offended so easily

From one human to another, Live in grace man.
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Re: alpa hidden agenda

#15 Post by NewCommercialPilot » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:00 am

I might have been wrong about ALPA's motivation for choosing the conciliation approach to bargaining. Although, it does get them dues money which they are not getting (unlike JetBlue), it appears from this memo from the JetBlue MEC that all members are responsible for dues from the time they were eligible for membership in ALPA. For JetBlue this was about three months after certification, so for the WJ, I guess we could say that ALPA will be looking for dues back dated to roughly August 1, 2017.

Although ALPA won't be able to force the money from its members, anyone who doesn't pony up will be considered in bad standing and unable to vote etc.

In any event, better that ALPA get the dues flowing sooner rather than later like any corporation.

If were to become a member, my dues owing would be roughly $2000 at this point.

Cheers Big Ears!
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Re: alpa hidden agenda

#16 Post by YVR Lurker » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:52 am

Bump, so we don’t forget that “a sound mind “ isn’t a requirement for an ATPL.

Eerily quiet of late John. Must be embarrassing getting caught with your pants around your ankles, charading as a rube and getting busted.
Ouch! That has GOT to sting yes?

Ask yourself this question,”if my children read this forum, would they be proud of dad?”

Fill us in on union busting Version 3.1
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Re: alpa hidden agenda

#17 Post by Alcoholism » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:48 am

You have to give John credit. He has inflamed the passions of many here, the Westjet forum has never been so active. Is he a troll, or is he just a loud voice of the minority at WS? Maybe both? He has made good points and terrible ones. What does it matter, I said it before and I'll say it again, Swoop will be flown by WS pilots, why the whole debate and craziness is beyond me. Just chill, let ALPA handle it, if you don't have faith in them, then de-cert like Johnny boy wants.
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Re: alpa hidden agenda

#18 Post by FL410AV8R » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:54 am

Alcoholism wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:48 am
You have to give John credit. He has inflamed the passions of many here, the Westjet forum has never been so active. Is he a troll, or is he just a loud voice of the minority at WS? Maybe both? He has made good points and terrible ones. What does it matter, I said it before and I'll say it again, Swoop will be flown by WS pilots, why the whole debate and craziness is beyond me. Just chill, let ALPA handle it, if you don't have faith in them, then de-cert like Johnny boy wants.
And another personality appears from the closet.

Talking about yourself in the third person and giving yourself credit is yet another low.
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lostaviator
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Re: alpa hidden agenda

#19 Post by lostaviator » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:37 am

My lunch money is on one of his usernames being a moderator on the site. Would explain the multitude of user names and the change of original poster on this specific thread.
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Re: alpa hidden agenda

#20 Post by Alcoholism » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:54 am

FL410AV8R wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:54 am
Alcoholism wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:48 am
You have to give John credit. He has inflamed the passions of many here, the Westjet forum has never been so active. Is he a troll, or is he just a loud voice of the minority at WS? Maybe both? He has made good points and terrible ones. What does it matter, I said it before and I'll say it again, Swoop will be flown by WS pilots, why the whole debate and craziness is beyond me. Just chill, let ALPA handle it, if you don't have faith in them, then de-cert like Johnny boy wants.
And another personality appears from the closet.

Talking about yourself in the third person and giving yourself credit is yet another low.
You could also be one of the many personalities. Or, what if this whole forum is just you and I? No one else :shock:
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Re: alpa hidden agenda

#21 Post by WeedPro2000 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:14 am

I'm thinking JetBlue pilots wouldn't approve of WestJet pilots who applied long after they were able to join not being responsible for past dues, while JetBlue pilots who didn't apply right away would be responsible for past dues. Come to think of it, it makes sense. Why not wait as long as you can to join and avoid the dues.

In any case, look at the screenshot and let me know what you think. I think #37 has a hotline to the ALPA inner sanctum so maybe he can figure out this situation.

Ergo, Uncle H., will WJ pilots have to pay back dues to ALPA? And if not, are the happy not happy JetBlue pilots okay with the double standard? What does ALPA's constitution say?

Later bater.

WP2K
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Re: alpa hidden agenda

#22 Post by hurtin'albertan » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:15 am

WeedPro/NCP/Rotten Apple/etc:

Get informed before you spout bullsh!t to stir the pot...

Canada, betch. Different rules than the US. If you had the smarts to actually be an ALPA member you would have gotten this in the fastread yesterday:

"ALPA Grants WestJet Pilots their 4th Quarter Budget
As you know WestJet pilots are not currently paying dues and will not be until we have ratified a collective agreement. There have been questions about whether ALPA is just loaning us the money to operate, essentially leaving us in considerable debt. This is not the case. We have been operating on a budget developed by MEC and the ALPA Finance Department that is similar in size to what we expect once we do begin paying dues. We are pleased to let everyone know our fourth-quarter expenditures came in well under budget. Also, those funds have been granted to the WJA MEC, leaving our pilot group in a debt-free position. Our MEC does not owe any money to ALPA. The same process will be followed until we begin paying dues and we intend to continue to maintain a balanced budget at all times.
"
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Re: alpa hidden agenda

#23 Post by FL410AV8R » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:26 am

WeedPro2000 wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:14 am
I'm thinking JetBlue pilots wouldn't approve of WestJet pilots who applied long after they were able to join not being responsible for past dues, while JetBlue pilots who didn't apply right away would be responsible for past dues. Come to think of it, it makes sense. Why not wait as long as you can to join and avoid the dues.

In any case, look at the screenshot and let me know what you think. I think #37 has a hotline to the ALPA inner sanctum so maybe he can figure out this situation.

Ergo, Uncle H., will WJ pilots have to pay back dues to ALPA? And if not, are the happy not happy JetBlue pilots okay with the double standard? What does ALPA's constitution say?

Later bater.

WP2K
You are aware of that phenomenon know as he 49th parallel are you not?

This line also known as the Canada/US border acts as the dividing line between the sovereign nations of Canada and the United States of America. Different countries with different labour and employment laws and standards.

Trying to draw parallels between employees covered by the Railway Labor Act in the US and those covered by the Canada Labour Code here in Canada is disengenuous in the extreme.
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Re: alpa hidden agenda

#24 Post by NéwCommercialPilot » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:55 am

Why are you guys worried about multiple personalities.
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Re: alpa hidden agenda

#25 Post by YVR Lurker » Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:59 pm

Bump.
jsyk
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