Gregg Saretsky is the modern Frank Lorenzo

Discuss topics relating to Westjet.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog

User avatar
pianokeys
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 285
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:35 pm

Gregg Saretsky is the modern Frank Lorenzo

Post by pianokeys »

Ok ok. What the hell is going on at WS?

So, the last few years of the WS forum have been interesting. From what I have read, experienced, and heard from real people is that WS is not what it used to be. Gregg and his management team have changed the environment for the worst at WS. The happy-go-lucky David like airline that could no longer has the pride that was once there. Bad management, employees not being listened to, and the widening respect gap between management and employees sparked the creation of its own union for pilots and FAs, which failed (WJPA) the first round with a troubling near 50/50, all to be brought back with power from the ALPA which now has started bargaining with the company. WS is unionizing.

There is no room, nor no need, for an ULCC in Canada. Not to mention, WS could do what AA and UA are already doing which is offering an ULCC fare class along side their normal fares. With WSs current business model, I really do not understand the need for Swoop.

Seems to me that Gregg (like Frank Lorenzo) is upset that WS (like Eastern and Continental) are unionized and therefore created Swoop in an attempt to start fresh without a union. There are already talks of WS tails going to Swoop, just like Eastern tails going to Continental. As far fetched as it sounds, history does repeat itself, and I wouldnt be too surprised if Gregg divests a large portion of WS in to Swoop in an attempt to bust the ALPAs union. Just like Frank Lorenzo. Just wait until he starts blaming, blaming more I should say, unions for WSs issues.

Gregg is a union buster, Gregg is the modern day Frank Lorenzo.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Mach1
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 719
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:04 am

Re: Gregg Saretsky is the modern Frank Lorenzo

Post by Mach1 »

pianokeys wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:03 pm Ok ok. What the hell is going on at WS?
Okay. I'll tell you the scoop. It's like this:
pianokeys wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:03 pm So, the last few years of the WS forum have been interesting. From what I have read, experienced, and heard from real people is that WS is not what it used to be. Gregg and his management team have changed the environment for the worst at WS. The happy-go-lucky David like airline that could no longer has the pride that was once there. Bad management, employees not being listened to, and the widening respect gap between management and employees sparked the creation of its own union for pilots and FAs, which failed (WJPA) the first round with a troubling near 50/50, all to be brought back with power from the ALPA which now has started bargaining with the company. WS is unionizing.

There is no room, nor no need, for an ULCC in Canada. Not to mention, WS could do what AA and UA are already doing which is offering an ULCC fare class along side their normal fares. With WSs current business model, I really do not understand the need for Swoop.

Seems to me that Gregg (like Frank Lorenzo) is upset that WS (like Eastern and Continental) are unionized and therefore created Swoop in an attempt to start fresh without a union. There are already talks of WS tails going to Swoop, just like Eastern tails going to Continental. As far fetched as it sounds, history does repeat itself, and I wouldnt be too surprised if Gregg divests a large portion of WS in to Swoop in an attempt to bust the ALPAs union. Just like Frank Lorenzo. Just wait until he starts blaming, blaming more I should say, unions for WSs issues.

Gregg is a union buster, Gregg is the modern day Frank Lorenzo.
I think GS is feeling nostalgic for the Robert Milton era. He wants to recreate those days of labour disharmony, treating employees increasingly bad until they take it out on the customer thus driving the stock prices to new lows and an eventual slide into creditor protection, bankruptcy and restructuring.... All while making huge bonuses. I know... I know... he deserves his bonuses and a raise or two because he's an executive and you are just a worker. Hey, we did the 60's, 70's and 80's retro thing... this is just the 90's retro.
---------- ADS -----------
 
I'm going to knock this up a notch with my spice weasle. Bam!
Rupert.Pupkin
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:59 am

Re: Gregg Saretsky is the modern Frank Lorenzo

Post by Rupert.Pupkin »

Or an airline version of Frank Kelner
---------- ADS -----------
 
Legacy
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 539
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:05 pm

Re: Gregg Saretsky is the modern Frank Lorenzo

Post by Legacy »

Myself and probably 90% of the company can't wait for this guy to be gone for good. Always easier to destroy than to create and he had proven this time and time again.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Rotten Apple #1
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 915
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:34 am

Re: Gregg Saretsky is the modern Frank Lorenzo

Post by Rotten Apple #1 »

Sincere question, praise KeK, but didn't the ULCC get announced and THEN the union certified?

So isn't this, praise KeK, a situation of the union busting the ULCC?

Plus, the ULCC wages are the same as the union negotiated pay at Sunwing and Transat. So why the haterz?

Hey for an update of the WingNut project go here to see the exciting developments with the AR glasses.

Shadilay!
---------- ADS -----------
 
Rotten Apple #1
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 915
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:34 am

Re: Gregg Saretsky is the modern Frank Lorenzo

Post by Rotten Apple #1 »

pianokeys wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:03 pm ... therefore created Swoop in an attempt to start fresh without a union.
Praise KeK, but you might be misunderstanding the sequence of events. When the ULCC was announced, there weren't any unions at WJ.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Rotten Apple #1
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 915
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:34 am

Re: Gregg Saretsky is the modern Frank Lorenzo

Post by Rotten Apple #1 »

pianokeys wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:03 pm
There is no room, nor no need, for an ULCC in Canada.
Praise KeK, but why did New Leaf start and then Flair move into that market and why are there others looking to start a ULCC? Moreover, how do you know there is no room for a ULCC? Are you an economist?
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
pianokeys
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 285
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:35 pm

Re: Gregg Saretsky is the modern Frank Lorenzo

Post by pianokeys »

Rotten Apple #1 wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:36 am
pianokeys wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:03 pm ... therefore created Swoop in an attempt to start fresh without a union.
Praise KeK, but you might be misunderstanding the sequence of events. When the ULCC was announced, there weren't any unions at WJ.
When the ULCC was announced, it was two years after the WJPA union drive, and the ALPA union announcement. Meaning, unions are in the works. Semantics
Rotten Apple #1 wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:41 am
pianokeys wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:03 pm
There is no room, nor no need, for an ULCC in Canada.
Praise KeK, but why did New Leaf start and then Flair move into that market and why are there others looking to start a ULCC? Moreover, how do you know there is no room for a ULCC? Are you an economist?
.

New Leaf started by wet leasing F8, which eventually led to F8 just absorbing New Leaf. JetsGo failed. C6 failed during their second iteration. Countless other ULCC startups have failed before they even acquired aircraft due to market uncertainty. I dont believe flying in to cheap airports (Canadian ULCC 'selling point') like YHM or YXX is appealing to passengers as these cities are far away from bigger, more populous cities like YVR and YYZ. I want to get to YVR, I dont want to get to YXX and rent a car or taxi for $100 in to YVR.

Aside from the airport inconvenience, the only things a ULCC could do different is charge crazy prices for checked bags, charge for beverage service, and charge for overhead bin room. No IFE, of course, but thats the way the industry seems to be going, bring your own IFE. BYOIFE. So in reality, theres not much money to be made off of those things, charging for them isnt going to reduce the overall fare substantially. People already have to pay for what they want on a flight, meals, headphones, blankets.

Im sure all Canadians will be saying "feels good man" when they ride in these 28 inch pitch seats.
---------- ADS -----------
 
tbaylx
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1193
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2004 6:30 pm

Re: Gregg Saretsky is the modern Frank Lorenzo

Post by tbaylx »

They might not say feels good but they're filling Suwning aircraft with the same seat pitch on 6hr legs. Seat pitch isn't going to deter the bargain hunters buying ULCC tickets.

As for driving to YHM/YXX its a shorter drive with no border crossings vs driving to Buffalo/Seattle which apparently a significant number people are already doing. The market is there, how big and profitable it might be remains to be seen
---------- ADS -----------
 
Greenbastard
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:33 am

Re: Gregg Saretsky is the modern Frank Lorenzo

Post by Greenbastard »

GS’s legacy will be the cultural demise of WJ, WITHOUT a doubt. WJ will eventually get a new CEO and things will change and we will all move on.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Donald
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2366
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:34 am
Location: Canada

Re: Gregg Saretsky is the modern Frank Lorenzo

Post by Donald »

pianokeys wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:40 amIm sure all Canadians will be saying "feels good man" when they ride in these 28 inch pitch seats.
It's Costco mentality.

Consumers are now programmed to think that if they see "frills", they must be spending too much.

If you are in a basic concrete warehouse, and the goods are on pallets, they *must* be saving money.

The ULCC will be the same. Seats are tight? I'm saving money.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
privateer
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 507
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:49 am

Re: Gregg Saretsky is the modern Frank Lorenzo

Post by privateer »

The Costco analogy made me laugh.
Funny how I end up walking out of there with over $150 in food and crap.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Axial Flow
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 507
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:00 pm

Re: Gregg Saretsky is the modern Frank Lorenzo

Post by Axial Flow »

I remember back in the early 2000's when employee numbers were in the 3000 range and the first day of CSA training, Clive came into the class to talk about why WestJet was succeeding...then Don Bell...and then the flight attendant with 10 kids who played a flute to tell us how awesome it was at Westjet.

Back then, they put us up in a hotel for 3 weeks of training (to be a CSA that took a day to learn the system) and paid us a per diem...when I applied 13 years later as a pilot I was responsible for my hotel while I was in ground school and no per diems to speak of. I get economics but back in the old days when everyone was so high on just not being Air Canada and creating a brand they believed in it truly was something to be a part of. The culture is dead and now that pilots will be paying union dues...they have become that of which they used to differentiate themselves from. Business is business and that's why it is the greatest job in the shittiest industry.
---------- ADS -----------
 
landshark
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Gregg Saretsky is the modern Frank Lorenzo

Post by landshark »

---------- ADS -----------
 
Victory
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 464
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:32 am

Re: Gregg Saretsky is the modern Frank Lorenzo

Post by Victory »

Axial Flow wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:17 am the flight attendant with 10 kids who played a flute to tell us how awesome it was at Westjet.
There must be people that are glad the culture is dead. This would drive me nuts. Things like calling your passengers "guests" is incredibly annoying. I'd just want to go to work and get my flights done safely without all the cult like culture.
---------- ADS -----------
 
flyinhigh
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2961
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 7:42 pm
Location: my couch

Re: Gregg Saretsky is the modern Frank Lorenzo

Post by flyinhigh »

Victory wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:52 am
There must be people that are glad the culture is dead. This would drive me nuts. Things like calling your passengers "guests" is incredibly annoying. I'd just want to go to work and get my flights done safely without all the cult like culture.
Man if thats all it took to drive me nuts, i'd be pumped. Everytime I pull into YYZ, I dread Menzies and wonder how long this time. Almost willing to start taking bets at 20:1 odds with how shitty they are.
---------- ADS -----------
 
BE20 Driver
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 571
Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 12:58 pm

Re: Gregg Saretsky is the modern Frank Lorenzo

Post by BE20 Driver »

I almost spit out my coffee thinking about Gregg offering our Captains $30-60k USD bonuses.
---------- ADS -----------
 
co-joe
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4552
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:33 am
Location: YYC 230 degree radial at about 10 DME

Re: Gregg Saretsky is the modern Frank Lorenzo

Post by co-joe »

Axial Flow wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:17 am ... and that's why it is the greatest job in the shittiest industry.
Well said.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
complexintentions
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2183
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:49 pm
Location: of my pants is unknown.

Re: Gregg Saretsky is the modern Frank Lorenzo

Post by complexintentions »

BE20 Driver wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:50 amI almost spit out my coffee thinking about Gregg offering our Captains $30-60k USD bonuses.
Except of course, it wouldn't be enough to make people happy. Because maybe there would be someone else getting more.

Just a thought. Maybe if people focused a little more on what they have, instead of what they don't, or what they feel they're owed, entitled to, or perceive as having lost...they wouldn't always feel so miserable and hard-done by.

I'm trying to feel pity for the poor United and American pilots, trying to scrape by on their meagre bonuses of $3,600 to $20,500. Whose only reason to feel victimized is the fact their Delta colleagues get a lot more. Go apply at Delta, you whiners! hahah!

Envy and greed - the road to happiness! :mrgreen:
---------- ADS -----------
 
I’m still waiting for my white male privilege membership card. Must have gotten lost in the mail.
User avatar
NewCommercialPilot
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:22 am

Re: Gregg Saretsky is the modern Frank Lorenzo

Post by NewCommercialPilot »

Victory wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:52 amThere must be people that are glad the culture is dead. This would drive me nuts. Things like calling your passengers "guests" is incredibly annoying. I'd just want to go to work and get my flights done safely without all the cult like culture.
No doubt there have been changes. I never got wound up about the stuff you mention though. I'm not sure why, maybe I'm short a few brain molecules but I've generally liked coming to work here, I suppose like all of my aviation jobs. I am glad for split crews though. With the current political environment, spending 4 days with the same FA's would be increasing the odds that someone would take offence at something and off for tea and bickies you go.

Also makes for much quieter van rides at 4 a.m.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “WestJet”