CIRB Decision

Discuss topics relating to Westjet.

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altiplano
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CIRB Decision

Post by altiplano »

I heard they sided with ALPA on ALL the complaints.

Congratulations to Westjet pilots and ALPA in a major victory protecting your future and the profession.
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flyinhigh
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Re: CIRB Decision

Post by flyinhigh »

There is still a few outstanding issues before the board, but yes, so far ruling are in pilots favour.

Sorry, JS for the WJ MEC not knowing their ass from a whole in the ground. I guess your position is safer now, even though you didn't want it to be.
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altiplano
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Re: CIRB Decision

Post by altiplano »

I look forward to reading the full decision, but that's a lot of leverage with Swoop set to sail in just a few months and the pilots holding the keys.
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aerodude
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Re: CIRB Decision

Post by aerodude »

If true, I will be impressed with ALPA. Congrats to Westjet pilots, you might have closed Pandora’s box. ACPA should pay attention.
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DropTanks
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Re: CIRB Decision

Post by DropTanks »

The Unfair Labour Practice complaint is still before the CIRB but the Interim Order was a clean sweep I think. I would post it but don’t think appropriate. I’m sure it’s a matter of public record on the labour board website or something. MEC is like 10 steps ahead on this stuff. Very nicely done and support for the MEC is through the roof. Accounts of the contrary are laughable. More and more “converts” are making themselves known and accepting change for the better.
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altiplano
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Re: CIRB Decision

Post by altiplano »

So moving forward from this interim order, if management wants to proceed with Swoop in their current vision they will have to hire exclusively from outside. That's a tough timeline with a start date only 3 months away...

The type training alone takes 2 months... Plus the trainers/checkers/line indoc guys that have to get into place. I don't suppose any current Westjet guys will be resigning or risking their position (#) to go start Swoop unless they are in their last month's at Westjet anyway and someone's going to give them a pile of cash.

If Swoop launches, common employer status gets awarded and it's check mate for ALPA. I think management has set a steep path to climb with its decisions thus far. Meanwhile the Pilots' timing bringing in ALPA couldn't have been better.
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handyandy
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Re: CIRB Decision

Post by handyandy »

I agree with your statement...

"The type training alone takes 2 months... Plus the trainers/checkers/line indoc guys that have to get into place. I don't suppose any current Westjet guys will be resigning or risking their position (#) to go start Swoop unless they are in their last month's at Westjet anyway and someone's going to give them a pile of cash."

As far as leaving to go to Swoop to end a career may seem like a good idea. As of now we have zero retirement benefits, it would be a shame to leave for swoop to find out months later AlPA negotiated benefits for retirees.
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squawk
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Re: CIRB Decision

Post by squawk »

YVR Lurker wrote: Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:44 am This decision never NEVER would have happened with the WJPA at the helm. They wouldn’t have fought that battle.
Thank you MEC and ALPA.

G
Maybe the WJPA wouldn’t have had to fight that battle in the first place. Maybe Westjet pilots would have been given the flying. Collaboration compared to what appears to be constant conflict. I think this battle is far from over.
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handyandy
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Re: CIRB Decision

Post by handyandy »

Hi Squat

I disagree with what you wrote:

"Maybe the WJPA wouldn’t have had to fight that battle in the first place. Maybe Westjet pilots would have been given the flying. Collaboration compared to what appears to be constant conflict. I think this battle is far from over."


I don't think the WJPA fought battles. At best, they suggested a few ideas to the company.

"Maybe they would have been given the flying" Westjet is a business, what you are describing sounds like a charity.

Collaboration is a wonderful thing! The majority of Westjet Pilots didn't see things the same as the WJPA. The Majority voted for ALPA!

The WJPA was in constant conflict. This will pass, try to set you emotions aside, although you disagree with the majority; your beliefs are partially valid. I think many can sympathize with you, it seems you have an emotional attachment to the WJPA, try to put that aside and think rationally about what's going on.

If you have questions or concerns use you resources, try to be more solution focused.

Remember and Don't forget, put those emotions aside for a couple months and be the best damn aviator you can!
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tbaylx
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Re: CIRB Decision

Post by tbaylx »

altiplano wrote: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:09 pm So moving forward from this interim order, if management wants to proceed with Swoop in their current vision they will have to hire exclusively from outside. That's a tough timeline with a start date only 3 months away...

The type training alone takes 2 months... Plus the trainers/checkers/line indoc guys that have to get into place. I don't suppose any current Westjet guys will be resigning or risking their position (#) to go start Swoop unless they are in their last month's at Westjet anyway and someone's going to give them a pile of cash.

If Swoop launches, common employer status gets awarded and it's check mate for ALPA. I think management has set a steep path to climb with its decisions thus far. Meanwhile the Pilots' timing bringing in ALPA couldn't have been better.
How is it a victory for WestJet pilots if now swoop is going to hire exclusively off the street? Are you suggesting that they won't be able to get up and running by June with OTS candidates?
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KAG
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Re: CIRB Decision

Post by KAG »

The trainers and management pilots were most likely coming from wj. That probably won't happen now. This all takes time and that's something that's running out for swoop.
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Boney
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Re: CIRB Decision

Post by Boney »

Hope you are happy. There were enough WJA pilots that applied for the LOA to crew at least 3 airplanes, mostly commuters.
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cjet
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Re: CIRB Decision

Post by cjet »

Very happy Boney. Big smile on my face.

Cjet
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NATA
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Re: CIRB Decision

Post by NATA »

Boney wrote: Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:53 am Hope you are happy. There were enough WJA pilots that applied for the LOA to crew at least 3 airplanes, mostly commuters.
I am very happy with the CIRB decision. Congratulations to the volunteers putting in all the time and effort, it's appreciated by the majority for sure!
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Red1
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Re: CIRB Decision

Post by Red1 »

From what I have heard they have all ready hired their first ten off the street hires.. apparently mostly from Cargo jet. Anyone who doesn't think that WestJet won't be able to find OTS pilots to fly for Swoop needs to give there head a shake... you will always find someone, and then once it become an entity, and is actually up and running it will be even easier. This needs to stop before it even begins. Both parties need to work this out.
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Boney
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Re: CIRB Decision

Post by Boney »

Smile. Lol

Long live the brotherhood.
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Boney
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Re: CIRB Decision

Post by Boney »

By the way, and I stand corrected, but, isn’t Rouge flown by AC pilots on LOA, or something similar, working for less than AC pay, I think using WJA contract?

If yes, funny that they are egging you on to strike? I guess they are looking out for you, or maybe, looking out for themselves especially with their stock price up.

Like I said, interesting times ahead.
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FL410AV8R
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Re: CIRB Decision

Post by FL410AV8R »

Boney wrote: Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:53 am Hope you are happy. There were enough WJA pilots that applied for the LOA to crew at least 3 airplanes, mostly commuters.
I really do wonder where you get this sort of fictitious information.

I don't think you will find much sympathy among WestJet pilots for those within our ranks who thought it would be OK take one of these LOAs to skip the seniority queue and take an upgrade at Swoop ahead of fellow pilots who have been waiting patiently for 6-8 years for their upgrade opportunity only to see the goalposts disappear over the horizon.

Anyone who thinks this is acceptable really needs their moral compass realigned and is deserving of any criticism leveled at them.

3 airplanes? Really? 8-10 crews per tail. So you are telling me that 40-50 WJ pilots took these LOAs, I find that extremely hard to believe.

In the last month of flying, I have talked to a lot of pilots and not a single one has expressed even a passing interest in the LOAs being offered nor do they know of any of their friends who are. I am thinking that any who have considered taking this opportunity to screw over their peers are keeping pretty quiet about it because they know what they are doing is morally reprehensible.
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groundpilot
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Re: CIRB Decision

Post by groundpilot »

Are the anti - ALPA posters on here the same guy?

Boney, NewCommercialPilot, squawk, rotten apple

As for Boney or whoever this person's current alias is,

Rouge does not involve a LOA. Pilots bid it for various reasons. One list, period. And that was forced on us FYI
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groundpilot
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Re: CIRB Decision

Post by groundpilot »

Are the anti - ALPA posters on here the same guy?

Boney, NewCommercialPilot, squawk, rotten apple

As for Boney or whoever this person's current alias is,

Rouge does not involve a LOA. Pilots bid it for various reasons. One list, period. And that was forced on us FYI
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