That's ok - we all generally argue in roundabout ways when we disagree. As I see it we have lines in the sand that we aren't willing to cross, not yet at least.mbav8r wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:10 amThis seems to have come full circle, I seem to recall you making this argument before and it doesn’t hold water for me. Apologies if it was not you but, if you are a pilot applying at a company that has news articles referring to a labour complaint and mentions a 40% pay reduction, you’d have to be a complete moron to not realize there would be blow back in some form.schnitzel2k3 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:07 amBecause there are going to be pilots who undoubtedly apply to Swoop without any knowledge of the current state of affairs that you and I are privy to mb8. These are the pilots who saw a position - it was better than they had it - and made the move - without knowing the blowback or supposed ramifications.mbav8r wrote: ↑Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:56 pm
So, why is it pilots should have the right to take a job that undoubtedly will have ramifications towards the WJ pilots without any ramifications of their own? The WJ pilots have the right to protect their livelihood, if a blacklist helps then so be it.
Actions have consequences, it’s even being spelled out for them so no guessing on what they might be.
Also self preservation is a damn good reason to fight this, the end result being good for the industry, does it really matter the motivation?
I wouldn't call it ignorance either because from what I can tell - unless they have access to internal Westjet forums - AVCanada seems to be the only place where this topic has gone nuclear. We know while there are a lot of us, this forum isn't all encompassing.
The only ones you could hold accountable to ruining upgrades and sabotaging Westjet pilots are the internal LOAs that were moving over. That obviously isn't the case anymore but at least you know who they are.
If ALPA and Westjet pilots were on an industry betterment crusade then you would be taking aim at Flair and Canada Jetlines. They are eating at your expansion opportunities, they led WS management to dream up Swoop and as I see it pay less than Swoop will in June.
S.
You use the tools you have available, 40% pay raises for most US companies and here in Canukistan, we apologize and make excuses for pilots undercutting other pilots by 40%.
In my opinion what should've happened was Swoop get slotted at the decreased pay between mainline and Encore. That keeps those routes competitive and the flying under the Teal brand. Encore guys get to move up to the 37 for more cash, options are open for right seat guys to go left. Everyone is a winner - except for Drop Tanks (sorry bud, just had to) - but the 787s are coming.
Sorry mb8. May'be one day I'll understand, but thus far the introduction of Swoop has done nothing but increase pay rates on my side of the industry. I figure if ALPA can't tender a solid agreement in the face of Swoop - they aren't worth their dues.
S.