WJPilotFacts.com

[.80@410]

Maybe WJPILOT facts could explain this new low:

Posted for SWOOP .. ( sorry the header is missing )

Foreign pilots. Contract pilots. 1200$ hourly .

Discuss. I'm too angry to say anything productive.

[tbaylx]

Maybe WJPILOT facts could explain this new low:

Posted for SWOOP .. ( sorry the header is missing )

Foreign pilots. Contract pilots. 1200$ hourly .

Discuss. I'm too angry to say anything productive.

Technically it's a new high @ 1200/hour. Except it's 1200USD/day, for 21 days. Not exactly long term staffing.

[J Roc]

A awhile back I asked an ALPA rep, "How do we unite this pilot group? How do we bridge the divide amongst our pilots?" His response, "Don't worry, the company will do that for us..."

Yes. Yes they will.

Unity now more than ever, brothers and sisters! This will be resolved, but ONLY under a unified pilot group. Regardless of the current optics and rhetoric from the VERY small minority, we are in the drivers seat.

J RO

[.80@410]

Maybe WJPILOT facts could explain this new low:

Posted for SWOOP .. ( sorry the header is missing )

Foreign pilots. Contract pilots. 1200$ hourly .

Discuss. I'm too angry to say anything productive.

Technically it's a new high @ 1200/hour. Except it's 1200USD/day, for 21 days. Not exactly long term staffing.

It's the point tbaylx, regardless how you and Weedpro (JS) try to justify / make light / brush it off .

It's A big fat slap in the face to current wj pilots :
Foreign pilots welcome ! at wages higher than we pay our current pilots !

[tbaylx]

Maybe WJPILOT facts could explain this new low:

Posted for SWOOP .. ( sorry the header is missing )

Foreign pilots. Contract pilots. 1200$ hourly .

Discuss. I'm too angry to say anything productive.

Technically it's a new high @ 1200/hour. Except it's 1200USD/day, for 21 days. Not exactly long term staffing.

It's the point tbaylx, regardless how you and Weedpro (JS) try to justify / make light / brush it off .

It's A big fat slap in the face to current wj pilots :
Foreign pilots welcome ! at wages higher than we pay our current pilots !

So first Swoop isn't paying its pilots enough and it's bringing down the industry, now they're paying a few pilots more than WestJet mainline for a few weeks and that's also a problem?
That contract is open to Canadian pilots too I assume, so not necessarily foreign.

[RidersRule]

Technically it's a new high @ 1200/hour. Except it's 1200USD/day, for 21 days. Not exactly long term staffing.

It's the point tbaylx, regardless how you and Weedpro (JS) try to justify / make light / brush it off .

It's A big fat slap in the face to current wj pilots :
Foreign pilots welcome ! at wages higher than we pay our current pilots !

So first Swoop isn't paying its pilots enough and it's bringing down the industry, now they're paying a few pilots more than WestJet mainline for a few weeks and that's also a problem?
That contract is open to Canadian pilots too I assume, so not necessarily foreign.

WestJet flying. WestJet pilots. WestJet WAWCON. It's pretty simple.

Are you a troll or just that slow...

[J Roc]

So first Swoop isn't paying its pilots enough and it's bringing down the industry, now they're paying a few pilots more than WestJet mainline for a few weeks and that's also a problem?
That contract is open to Canadian pilots too I assume, so not necessarily foreign.

tbaylx, with all due respect, it is a problem. A very big problem, which can not just be glossed over. Yes, it is about pay and WJ pilots desire to maintain fair market value but it also goes much deeper than that.

I'm sure you can agree, especially after reviewing the training contract pay, that the company can afford to pay appropriate wages. So it begs the question - what is this all about? Is it about saving a few shekels on pilot pay or is about circumventing certified labour? I, like many many other WJ pilot, choose the latter.

This IS NOT about saving a few bucks on pilot salaries but rather an attempt by a multi-billion dollar corporation to undermine, by-pass and avoid good faith bargaining with organized labour.

So yes, it's a problem.

Respectfully

J RO

[KAG]

I would say this is about as polarizing as the swoop announcement. They would rather hire unknown pilots to train more unknown pilots then just pay us to do the job. It's going to get very interesting quickly.

[Checklist]

Exactly. Management loves to tell us we need to be worried about two non-existent Airlines and... Flair.

Care to guess how much money is spent for KFC to work on WJ planes?

[pigboat]

Ladies and Gents.

I am not at Westjet. I have been in an Association for 39 years.

Thoughts from the sidelines.

Your need for a Union is two fold. Protection from an Employer who is not always completely fair in its dealings AND protection from your fellow pilot who might sell you out for personal gain.

( i.e. 243 pilots on layoff in 1993 and some greedy pilots flying 90, 100, 115 hours a month seriously delaying the recall of Other Brother Pilots. ) A. C. 1992-94.

Flying for cheap contributes next to nothing to a Companies bottom line.At the peak of pay rates the cost of flight crew was about 2.7 cents on the company dollar. With the decay of wages over the last 30 years, it is now less than 2 cents on the dollar. Flying for 10% or 30% less is just plain DUMB. You just end up giving up your salary for some Management bonus. It is false to think it contributes anything significant to the health of your Company. Everything that contributes to the cost of running an Airline has gone up a lot. Buying or renting A.C. ; fuel ; taxes and user fees are out of control! Canadian Landing fees, fuel tax, security tax, etc. The cost of fees and taxes on a ticket in Canada is an outrage, NOT the cost of it's pilots.

Management will try to create upset, pilot disunity and spread misinformation. Their job is to get your labor for as cheap as possible. IT is JUST BUSINESS! Nothing new here.

LAST and most important. Fly safe! Try to keep this discussion out of Flight Planning, off the Flight Deck. Save it for the layover or if it is clearly divisive, leave it alone. Politics, Religion and first contract Union talk should not interfere with safe flying.

I wish you all the best, it is a tough road but the rewards will last you all a lifetime!

A limited number of pilots ( perhaps as low as 10% ) can and will cause considerable damage to your Union in trying to get you the best deal. Just accept it as a reality.

[moe]

That was a great post pigboat.
Appreciate the insight and support.

dk

[Flyingsquirrelsuck]

Ladies and Gents.

I am not at Westjet. I have been in an Association for 39 years.

Thoughts from the sidelines.

Your need for a Union is two fold. Protection from an Employer who is not always completely fair in its dealings AND protection from your fellow pilot who might sell you out for personal gain.

( i.e. 243 pilots on layoff in 1993 and some greedy pilots flying 90, 100, 115 hours a month seriously delaying the recall of Other Brother Pilots. ) A. C. 1992-94.

Flying for cheap contributes next to nothing to a Companies bottom line.At the peak of pay rates the cost of flight crew was about 2.7 cents on the company dollar. With the decay of wages over the last 30 years, it is now less than 2 cents on the dollar. Flying for 10% or 30% less is just plain DUMB. You just end up giving up your salary for some Management bonus. It is false to think it contributes anything significant to the health of your Company. Everything that contributes to the cost of running an Airline has gone up a lot. Buying or renting A.C. ; fuel ; taxes and user fees are out of control! Canadian Landing fees, fuel tax, security tax, etc. The cost of fees and taxes on a ticket in Canada is an outrage, NOT the cost of it's pilots.

Management will try to create upset, pilot disunity and spread misinformation. Their job is to get your labor for as cheap as possible. IT is JUST BUSINESS! Nothing new here.

LAST and most important. Fly safe! Try to keep this discussion out of Flight Planning, off the Flight Deck. Save it for the layover or if it is clearly divisive, leave it alone. Politics, Religion and first contract Union talk should not interfere with safe flying.

I wish you all the best, it is a tough road but the rewards will last you all a lifetime!

A limited number of pilots ( perhaps as low as 10% ) can and will cause considerable damage to your Union in trying to get you the best deal. Just accept it as a reality.

Great post. Just waiting for JS to reply. Probably talk about stickers and German stuff.

[lostaviator]

I have a suspicion it's one of our own actually behind the website. JS mentioned the $$$ he'd received to "bust" us and has been responsible for the creation of many websites in the past.

WJ claims ownership to the site in the about section but if you run a Whois search on the URL, the owner's registration has been hidden. If WJ was the actual author/creator of the site, why would they hide their information from the registry as the owner? Someone has paid the extra $$$ to have the ownership registered under an url owner alias.

[WeedPro2000]

I have a suspicion it's one of our own actually behind the website. JS mentioned the $$$ he'd received to "bust" us and has been responsible for the creation of many websites in the past.

WJ claims ownership to the site in the about section but if you run a Whois search on the URL, the owner's registration has been hidden. If WJ was the actual author/creator of the site, why would they hide their information from the registry as the owner? Someone has paid the extra $$$ to have the ownership registered under an url owner alias.

Hahahaha, ahahahahahaha, frak! HAHAHAHAHA, lololololol,


I knew sooner or later some internet noob would end up on the hook hanging from the end of my line! hahahahahaha, good one.

I'm going to go treat myself to an extra large triple fruity latte something or other with a side order of dumbf@3k to go.

HAHAHAHAHA!

I haven't felt this good since someone wrote up an official AQD reporting me to the company for the Flica OT offer I made to the pilot group where I had hired Alexey and Dmitri, two Russian Ph.D students to pick up OT shifts for me and was extending the OT to Capts and FOs on a commission basis.

I fricking love myself.

Pilots. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

[WeedPro2000]

I think lostaviator should change his/her name to Sherlock Holmes, or gullibleaviator.

This day is starting out great.!

[WeedPro2000]

And just for the record (you can choose to believe me, or not), I have only ever set up one website. That was www.encoresenioritycoalition.org, which was a website devoted entirely to showing how ALPA's 50 year old Executive Board policy is to construct seniority lists based on date of hire, and necessarily means that the One List cannot be replicated in a WJ mainline seniority list, if that list is to withstand a legal challenge.

The effort that went in to the website, entirely funded by myself (you can choose to believe that, or not), was unsuccessful. A majority of former and existing Encore pilots chose to fall for the Pied Piper of Herndon's propaganda. We'll see how that works out for them shortly.

[lostaviator]

It is still absolutely amazing someone thinks the company has their back when we have friends and co-workers out there trying to represent us. You/I are nothing to the BOD, execs, etc. They'd pay us in biscoff cookies if they could.

See confessions of a union buster. Word for word - what is happening here right now.

Please get behind your fellow pilots, they have your back more than the company ever has/will. If things go bad, and we are let down, I'll be the first to contribute to your cause. On the topic of believing you, believe that I wasn't quick to get onboard with this, but we need to now in order to solidify a good outcome.

Wasn't there a decertifythewppa or something once upon a time? Back in the day? I really hope your memory isn't going.

[lostaviator]

I really don’t care which url’s you own/have owned but we should all be asking ourselves why the ownership information to this domain is being hidden....

Especially considering the company has a page full of url’s the own (Including westjetsucks.com). Why would they all of a sudden decide to not be the recognized owner of this website?

Third party union busters is why.

[FL410AV8R]

I really don’t care which url’s you own/have owned but we should all be asking ourselves why the ownership information to this domain is being hidden....

Especially considering the company has a page full of url’s the own (Including westjetsucks.com). Why would they all of a sudden decide to not be the recognized owner of this website?

Third party union busters is why.

Yup.

This guy is really really good at his job in the US and is WestJet's lead negotiator.

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/amer ... glass.html

http://www.talkairline.com/showthread.p ... le-history

http://www.fhsolutionsgroup.com/consultants/jerry-glass

[lostaviator]

Cams memo (last year) also said Swoop would be good for our career growth.

And from the company could mean from a union busting firm. As long as they paid for it, it’s theirs.