Everyday at WJ : union busting

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Re: Everyday at WJ : union busting

Post by Benwa » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:05 pm

*slow clap* John Swallow made money !
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Re: Everyday at WJ : union busting

Post by Legacy » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:48 pm

John honestly, who gives a rats ass how much you make. There are pilots at WJ that make more in investments alone over and above their salary than you do on your T4 and you don’t see them in here bragging about it
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Re: Everyday at WJ : union busting

Post by brooks » Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:50 pm

Does ALPA have forums for WJ pilots or is this what it has come to?
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Re: Everyday at WJ : union busting

Post by GAF » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:33 pm

Yes, there is an ALPA forum for Westjet pilots.
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Re: Everyday at WJ : union busting

Post by pigboat » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:52 am

If you ever wonder why you need a Union............I give you WeedPro 2000.

Look no further!
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Re: Everyday at WJ : union busting

Post by grudgingalpamember » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:31 am

WeedPro2000 is not alone. He is only the most vocal of those of us who oppose our current union regime. ALPA is setting up unrealistic expectations by pointing to gains made by Spirit pilots etc.. We make good money, if you grind the old T4 argument you don't understand how you are paid. If you have been at Westjet longer than 3 years you are making more than 80% of tax filers in the country. As a result you pay a lot of tax. If you are dissatisfied you should take it up with the CRA. I joined the company because I liked the fact that everyone was pulling in the same direction. Westjet didn't have the obstructionist infighting and fiefdoms of the union hindered companies. Now we are in a situation where we will probably end up with an imposed contract and ALPA can wash their hands and start collecting dues. Do you want to pay a lot of money for a lot of services you don't need? I give you our future under a union.
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Re: Everyday at WJ : union busting

Post by pigboat » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:52 am

Well written!

The fact is that you now have a Union. IF they get full support from the Pilots, they will get a much better deal than if the Management feels they can divide and destroy pilot unity. You may have no background in labor and even hate the thought of a Union. The truth is ; you now have one. The more support you give your Representatives, the better the result will be.

Just the way things are! I spent 39 years in a Union group and took some of the BIG jobs. I do not expect you to agree with some of their actions as I had fights with the direction that my own Union followed at times as well. The fact is, a united group will get a far better Contract than a badly divide group.

Regards.
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Re: Everyday at WJ : union busting

Post by Flyingsquirrelsuck » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:10 pm

grudgingalpamember wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:31 am
WeedPro2000 is not alone. He is only the most vocal of those of us who oppose our current union regime. ALPA is setting up unrealistic expectations by pointing to gains made by Spirit pilots etc.. We make good money, if you grind the old T4 argument you don't understand how you are paid. If you have been at Westjet longer than 3 years you are making more than 80% of tax filers in the country. As a result you pay a lot of tax. If you are dissatisfied you should take it up with the CRA. I joined the company because I liked the fact that everyone was pulling in the same direction. Westjet didn't have the obstructionist infighting and fiefdoms of the union hindered companies. Now we are in a situation where we will probably end up with an imposed contract and ALPA can wash their hands and start collecting dues. Do you want to pay a lot of money for a lot of services you don't need? I give you our future under a union.
Why are you comparing pilots to “other tax filers”? Have these same people put in the time, effort, expense that we have to build our careers? Do they have the same responsibility and liability as we do?

Let’s compare pilots to pilots. Industry standard.

YOS
Min credit
Trip rigs
DH inside the block paid correctly.

Most of these items everyone else receives. WJ pilots? Nope!

Do you think the old WJPA was able to bargain for these items? Nope.

How about the company stoping funding for PAT after we certified?

Westjet needs this union more than the pilots.
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Re: Everyday at WJ : union busting

Post by Demeter » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:35 pm

“How about the company stoping funding for PAT after we certified? “

What are the details around that?
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Re: Everyday at WJ : union busting

Post by Flyingsquirrelsuck » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:52 pm

Demeter wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:35 pm
“How about the company stoping funding for PAT after we certified? “

What are the details around that?

Details? The company stop funding PAT, that’s it. It’s a sign of how the company respects our group after certification
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Re: Everyday at WJ : union busting

Post by Demeter » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:25 pm

You didn’t provide the details to back up your allegations
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Re: Everyday at WJ : union busting

Post by aerobod » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:14 am

“PAT” aka PACT (Pro-Active Communications Team) was the employee representation organization with a seat on the board funded by a few $ from every non-union non-supervisory employees’ pay cheque and endorsed by the company, members were elected by each employee group. It was replaced by WEA (WestJet Employee Aassociation) which Is the employee representation organization with a seat on the board funded by a few $ from every non-union non-supervisory employees’ pay cheque and endorsed by the company, members are elected by each employee group. The only change was the name.
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Re: Everyday at WJ : union busting

Post by KAG » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:21 am

Hi John...the T4 is complete BS at westjet. It's the loud muffler on a Honda civic. Sure it's a metric, but only one.

Lets just be completely honest here, the only reason you're fighting alpa isn't for any altruistic reason, it's purely because you're terrified of losing your OT. That's it.

I have zero interest in bankrupting the company and we wont. Its anti union rhetoric. Of course managment is going to fight this change as costs will go up. Marginally. Poor decisions (like swoop) will drive this ship down. For a company so hell bent on saving money they sure are willing to throw it away to spite us. It would have cost nothing to get us new ties and throw swoop (our) flying in our schedules. But no, let's make poor business decisions out of spite. That's what will scuttle this ship. And it really brings to light a point: you're either too blind or too brainwashed to see you're fighting for a company that will happily dispose of you. But hey, it's just business right?
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Re: Everyday at WJ : union busting

Post by Flyingsquirrelsuck » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:27 am

Demeter wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:25 pm
You didn’t provide the details to back up your allegations
Flew with a member of PAT or so long ago. Heard it from them
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Re: Everyday at WJ : union busting

Post by Bede » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:55 am

aerobod wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:14 am
“PAT” aka PACT (Pro-Active Communications Team) was the employee representation organization with a seat on the board funded by a few $ from every non-union non-supervisory employees’ pay cheque and endorsed by the company, members were elected by each employee group. It was replaced by WEA (WestJet Employee Aassociation) which Is the employee representation organization with a seat on the board funded by a few $ from every non-union non-supervisory employees’ pay cheque and endorsed by the company, members are elected by each employee group. The only change was the name.
PAT is the Pilot Assistance Team. It now called the Pilot Support Network. I don't know about funding though.
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Re: Everyday at WJ : union busting

Post by Demeter » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:09 am

Flyingsquirrelsuck wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:27 am
Demeter wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:25 pm
You didn’t provide the details to back up your allegations
Flew with a member of PAT or so long ago. Heard it from them
You still didn’t provide the details to prove otherwise. Nuff said about credibility.
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Re: Everyday at WJ : union busting

Post by WeedPro2000 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:50 am

KAG wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:21 am
Hi John...the T4 is complete BS at westjet. It's the loud muffler on a Honda civic. Sure it's a metric, but only one.

Lets just be completely honest here, the only reason you're fighting alpa isn't for any altruistic reason, it's purely because you're terrified of losing your OT. That's it.

I have zero interest in bankrupting the company and we wont. Its anti union rhetoric. Of course managment is going to fight this change as costs will go up. Marginally. Poor decisions (like swoop) will drive this ship down. For a company so hell bent on saving money they sure are willing to throw it away to spite us. It would have cost nothing to get us new ties and throw swoop (our) flying in our schedules. But no, let's make poor business decisions out of spite. That's what will scuttle this ship. And it really brings to light a point: you're either too blind or too brainwashed to see you're fighting for a company that will happily dispose of you. But hey, it's just business right?
Terrified. Hmm. Well, I've stood on the edge of a 480 foot high bridge and I'll admit I was terrified. But I jumped anyway.

I'm not "terrified" of what ALPA is going to achieve here shortly. It will mean seniority for bidding in which case I'll bid the YYZ base and work 9 one days a month, probably on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Wednesdays I'll get my mani/pedi. Mondays I'll spend at the German cultural center. Fridays, I don't know what I'll do on Fridays. But the weekends? Well, every weekend will be a weekend!!!!!

By the way, Swoop isn't a bad business decision.

And regarding altruism, and while you are diagnosing motives without knowing me, I must agree that pilots are generally motivated by altruism. It's one of the first things I noticed about pilots when I got my licence: "These people are all motivated by their desire to change the world and make it a better place for their fellow man!"
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Re: Everyday at WJ : union busting

Post by WeedPro2000 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:59 am

I have screenings in China scheduled in June so perhaps you won't have my opinions to deal with soon. Fingers crossed lol!! :smt014
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Re: Everyday at WJ : union busting

Post by Victory » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:29 am

Wow I always thought these were parody accounts but that guy just said Fck ALPA and jumped off a bridge.
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Re: Everyday at WJ : union busting

Post by hurtin'albertan » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:42 am

WeedPro2000 wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:59 am
I have screenings in China scheduled in June so perhaps you won't have my opinions to deal with soon. Fingers crossed lol!! :smt014
You've got 1500 WJ pilots pulling for you on this! Best of luck and good fortune! :D :lol:
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Re: Everyday at WJ : union busting

Post by KAG » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:14 pm

John, I've never had the pleasure of flying with you, nor would my last name have been as memorable as the crew of swallow hiscock.😂 that one really made me laughter btw. Anyway if we cross paths on a layover first few rounds are on me. Honestly I really do wish your passion was redirected. If you're really applying to a Asian contract I wish you all the best.
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Re: Everyday at WJ : union busting

Post by Realitychex » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:20 am

Flair just announced a raft of expansion to YYJ, YXE, YYC, YVR, YXS etc.

You folks need to quit fiddling as Rome begins to burn and give the company the tools it needs to decisively deal with this very real threat to your careers.

If it’s not Flair, it’ll be someone else.

You want to protect your future at WS?

Shut, lock and brick up that back door.

Some of you are idealogically stuck in the trees when the forest you inhabit is expanding.

8)
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Re: Everyday at WJ : union busting

Post by Rezy » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:32 am

Realitychex wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:20 am
Flair just announced a raft of expansion to YYJ, YXE, YYC, YVR, YXS etc.

You folks need to quit fiddling as Rome begins to burn and give the company the tools it needs to decisively deal with this very real threat to your careers.

If it’s not Flair, it’ll be someone else.

You want to protect your future at WS?

Shut, lock and brick up that back door.

Some of you are idealogically stuck in the trees when the forest you inhabit is expanding.

8)

If it’s not Flair it’ll be Swoop. And how exactly does that help a WJ pilot with the current status quo?
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Re: Everyday at WJ : union busting

Post by WeedPro2000 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:54 am

Thanks for the words KAG. We'll fight for the coffee.

I think my passion is aligned with RealityChex's. I was here when JetsGo exposed our weak position. We watched virtually helplessly as they blew a cannonball sized hole in our operation's competitiveness. On another website, wjpilotforum.ca, which is restricted to essentially the 39 percent of us who voted against ALPA (you need an existing member's recommendation), many are voicing their displeasure and concern about where ALPA is taking us. Now that ALPA has refused to extend the conciliation period, the concern grows.

While I am somewhat sympathetic to the concerns of those who think that Swoop is the leading edge of a campaign to eradicate the working conditions of existing WJ pilots, I do not share that view. ALPA consistently shows its lack of concern over the competitiveness of WJ in the marketplace.They would rather we repeat the experience of the US major airlines prior to 9/11 by inflating salaries to unrealistic levels, imperiling profitability and therefore survivability, instead of working collaboratively to maintain a competitive position in the marketplace. I have heard the majority of ALPA leaders at WJ speak before. I know the rhetoric that excites the troops. I fervently disagree with the message.

From what I read in the past about economics, the dismal science, being number 2 in a marketplace is a precarious place. Number 2 is a target from ahead and behind. Many ALPA supporters think WJ is big enough to be immune from economics. They think only about contracts. Well, I was at 3 airlines that had contracts with the pilots. Those airlines don't exist anymore. At the last outfit, C3, we pilots were blindsided by our poor financial shape. In fact my good friend Tom, who was a pilot at WJ at the time I was at C3, told me had one of the founders (RealiityChex) of WJ in the jump seat who had told him in the spring of 2001 that my company would be gone in 6 months time. I think he was off by a month or two.

I'm likely not destined for China. I have medical factors that will likely rule me out. In the meantime, I'm on team WJ.
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Re: Everyday at WJ : union busting

Post by Go Guns » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:08 am

Realitychex wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:20 am
Flair just announced a raft of expansion to YYJ, YXE, YYC, YVR, YXS etc.

You folks need to quit fiddling as Rome begins to burn and give the company the tools it needs to decisively deal with this very real threat to your careers.

If it’s not Flair, it’ll be someone else.

You want to protect your future at WS?

Shut, lock and brick up that back door.

Some of you are idealogically stuck in the trees when the forest you inhabit is expanding.

8)

The same thing could be said to the other side. WestJet had all the time in the world to sort this out in a matter that would benefit everyone involved. They chose a different route. Most of the drivers completely understand the need for Swoop and agree with it, they just don’t understand why the costs savings need to be off our backs.
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