Time to Stand Firm

Discuss topics relating to Westjet.

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tbaylx
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Re: Time to Stand Firm

Post by tbaylx »

A strike vote most certainly means you had better be prepared to go on strike.
Don't think because your MEC is selling it as a "tool" that there isn't any chance your going to be out of work. It's also not a get whatever you want and the board rolls over card either. It can cut both ways, if you come back with a 60% mandate you're going to see what that means.
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DropTanks
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Re: Time to Stand Firm

Post by DropTanks »

tbaylx wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:26 am A strike vote most certainly means you had better be prepared to go on strike.
Don't think because your MEC is selling it as a "tool" that there isn't any chance your going to be out of work. It's also not a get whatever you want and the board rolls over card either. It can cut both ways, if you come back with a 60% mandate you're going to see what that means.
Exactly why a 100% strike mandate is crucial! Thanks!
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Transonic
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Re: Time to Stand Firm

Post by Transonic »

tbaylx wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:26 am A strike vote most certainly means you had better be prepared to go on strike.
Don't think because your MEC is selling it as a "tool" that there isn't any chance your going to be out of work. It's also not a get whatever you want and the board rolls over card either. It can cut both ways, if you come back with a 60% mandate you're going to see what that means.
Upon certification, ALPA membership was around 64%. Thanks to Swoop, I'm told we sit in the low 90%.

The majority of WestJet pilots see Swoop as a threat. If WestJet can blatantly disregarded section 10 of our agreement, then they can easily do the same again and send WestJet painted 787s to Swoop's OC. In a possibly scenario, If you want to fly the 787 then retire from WestJet, an Alberta Partnership, and join Swoop.

Let me remind us of the wording of section 10. It is very clear to understand the spirit of the agreement. What WestJet has done is morally wrong. There is NO loyalty or respect for the pilots.

"All aircraft operated by WestJet, WestJet Encore, its subsidiaries, affiliates and/or any entity in which WestJet has effective and/or operational control must be flown by pilots as listed in the WPDL."

Nothing is assured unless you vote YES.
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Legacy
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Re: Time to Stand Firm

Post by Legacy »

John, you keep on mentioning the 3 failed airlines that you previously worked for. Care to share which ones? If any of them were run by that crooked LeBlanc, please don’t reference it anymore in your arguments. Anyone that ever worked for that crook should have done their research on him. His companies were destined to fail. Surely you are not inferring that WestJet be in the same class as Royal or Jetsgo.
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yyc757
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Re: Time to Stand Firm

Post by yyc757 »

There is only one way to stand up to a bully. This bully is threatening our careers. This bully has already hired OTS pilots. This bully has set a date of first flight. This bully has no interest in integrity. This bully is blinded by ego, power and the desire to be in control. This bully will gladly fire us all and hire at Swoop. This bully will reward swoop pilots with the 787.

So how do you deal with a bully?

Neville Chamberlain: "peace for our time".

That didn't work out so well.

Don't be a Chamberlain.

Be a Churchill.
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cloak
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Re: Time to Stand Firm

Post by cloak »

tbaylx wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:26 am A strike vote most certainly means you had better be prepared to go on strike...
Doesn't a strike vote also mean that the MEC can legally call for a strike without any further discussions with the membership? It is all in their hand (and ALPA board)?
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WF9F
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Re: Time to Stand Firm

Post by WF9F »

You've got my support and many more at AC.
If Swoop is dependant on reduced pilot wages to make it work then it shouldn't start. We have the Cancer called Rouge and trust me they will take your Mainline flying and once it's gone it's gone!! Then all you guys working the steady diet of OT will finally get it, as that extra flying will be drastically reduced...

You deserve a contract with competitive wages,working conditions and all flying done by WJ Pilots.I believe you are on the right path to getting it.
Vote YES and support your MEC.
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skybaron
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Re: Time to Stand Firm

Post by skybaron »

WF9F wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:24 am You've got my support and many more at AC.
If Swoop is dependant on reduced pilot wages to make it work then it shouldn't start. We have the Cancer called Rouge and trust me they will take your Mainline flying and once it's gone it's gone!! Then all you guys working the steady diet of OT will finally get it, as that extra flying will be drastically reduced...

You deserve a contract with competitive wages,working conditions and all flying done by WJ Pilots.I believe you are on the right path to getting it.
Vote YES and support your MEC.
Well said.



Question:

Are Encore Pilots also following suit with WJ Pilots? The more that stand together within the organization, the greater the effect.
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Bede
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Re: Time to Stand Firm

Post by Bede »

skybaron wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:28 am Question:
Are Encore Pilots also following suit with WJ Pilots? The more that stand together within the organization, the greater the effect.
I don't believe that Encore pilots are in a legal strike position.

I've talked to a lot of Encore pilots; nothing but respect for those guys. We're going to do everything in our power to ensure that WJ flying is done by WJ pilots- and that includes Encore pilots.
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Rezy
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Re: Time to Stand Firm

Post by Rezy »

Encore Pilots are not in a legal strike position and cannot take any labor action, as they are a separate union and company.
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Dry Guy
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Re: Time to Stand Firm

Post by Dry Guy »

But Westjet mainline hires OTS pilots too. If all Westjet flying needs to be done by Westjet pilots and that includes Encore should we have gone on strike to stop OTS hires at mainline? So all Westjet flying would be done by Westjet pilots from Encore?
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Benwa
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Re: Time to Stand Firm

Post by Benwa »

OTS WJ pilots are on the WJPDL below current Encore pilots... All FOs. No direct-entry Captain positions...

Don't see any similarities to the SWOOP situation.
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Victory
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Re: Time to Stand Firm

Post by Victory »

So you're fine if Swoop pilots just go on the list at the bottom?
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RidersRule
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Re: Time to Stand Firm

Post by RidersRule »

Victory wrote: Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:22 pm So you're fine if Swoop pilots just go on the list at the bottom?
Being that it's such a mess I think most guys would be ok if they went to bottom of the list right seat on the Q.
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Jimmy2
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Re: Time to Stand Firm

Post by Jimmy2 »

Being bottom of the list doesn't mean bottom of the company. There are guys that are 737 f/o's at mainline that are below right seat on the Q on the list.

It might be a viable career decision to go to Swoop at the bottom of the list (behind current Encore pilots) and accrue 737 time. While also getting a position at Westjet mainline one day if you can't get that overseas position you had your eye on.
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Crash_PadYYC
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Re: Time to Stand Firm

Post by Crash_PadYYC »

RidersRule wrote: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:20 pm
PostmasterGeneral wrote: Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:21 pm What are “trip rigs?” Pardon my ignorance.
In a nutshell it's a minimum guarantee of pay for your time away from base.

For example, You might have a hour of pay for every four hours of your trip.

So the 48 hour POS that we have at WestJet is only worth the hours that we fly, since we have no Trip, Duty, or min daily credits. It's about 11 or 12 hours of credit. But if for example, you had a 1:4 trip rig, the 80 hours you are gone on the pairing would be worth about 20 hours.
The new 52 hour layover in YQG is a great example :roll:
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flyinhigh
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Re: Time to Stand Firm

Post by flyinhigh »

Jimmy2 wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:56 am Being bottom of the list doesn't mean bottom of the company. There are guys that are 737 f/o's at mainline that are below right seat on the Q on the list.

It might be a viable career decision to go to Swoop at the bottom of the list (behind current Encore pilots) and accrue 737 time. While also getting a position at Westjet mainline one day if you can't get that overseas position you had your eye on.
If this all shakes out the way many see/hope, the Swoop flying will be done by WestJet pilots on our department list. That means that WestJet pilots will take the flying from the current guys that excepted the position at Swoop. In turn there position will be gone, or if they wish, they can join Encore in the right seat and be put on our list at the bottom, Right where they belong.
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jjj
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Re: Time to Stand Firm

Post by jjj »

flyinhigh,

Let's be clear. WestJet pilots are not taking anything from anyone. They are retaining flying that we do already.

You are correct that we will have a spot for the successful OTS Swoop pilots that pass screening. The rejects will have to go back from whence they came.


JJJ
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The Tenth Man
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Re: Time to Stand Firm

Post by The Tenth Man »

WeedPro2000 wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:58 am And if, as YVR lurker suggests, that ALPA would be looking for 25-30% per hour pay increase, above and beyond things like better YOS and and a min credit per day, then that is destined for failure, and could only be seen as a means to force a failed negotiation, and a resulting strike vote.

The MEC published survey of US carriers has brought expectations to an unrealistic point. But I think that was the purpose. Make the pilots feel underpaid, and make them angry. Force them to want a strike, because there was no way that ALPA was ever going to honour the promises they made to the pilot group during the certification drive. Expectations are way too high.

If a pension is off the table, then I think what the companhy would submit under a Final Offer Selection scenario would be something like I suggested above. An improvement to YOS (not 1:1), an improvement to min credit per day, company paid benefits premiums, and a modest 5-10 per cent increase in pay the first year, and something in the 3-5 percent range in the second and third years. An arbitrator is going to look at the T4's of this pilot group and will immediately realize that we are not underpaid. We just have some pilots who have cash flow/cash management problems.

Additionally, the company will likely offer some kind of deal with Swoop that would see our pilots with access to the Swoop flight deck. What that looks like, who knows.

That's how I see it.
April 25, 2018.
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The Tenth Man
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Re: Time to Stand Firm

Post by The Tenth Man »

yyc757 wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:18 pm There is only one way to stand up to a bully. This bully is threatening our careers. This bully has already hired OTS pilots. This bully has set a date of first flight. This bully has no interest in integrity. This bully is blinded by ego, power and the desire to be in control. This bully will gladly fire us all and hire at Swoop. This bully will reward swoop pilots with the 787.

So how do you deal with a bully?

Neville Chamberlain: "peace for our time".

That didn't work out so well.

Don't be a Chamberlain.

Be a Churchill.
More bad advice.
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