Strike vote

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yycflyguy
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Re: Strike vote

Post by yycflyguy »

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hurtin'albertan
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Re: Strike vote

Post by hurtin'albertan »

Demeter wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:33 am
Perhaps give them a call yourself! Apology accepted :goodman:
No Apologies from me here, lady. But I think you owe the two pilots you are calling out an apology. I and many others have seen nothing but 100% loyalty to WestJet pilots from these two. Whether they have applied at ac or not doesn't matter one iota. I judge them based on how they act in the interest of our pilot group and all I've seen from them so far is a selfless attempt to make things better for all wj pilots, which I assume includes you since you take such an interest in wj pilot business.

Your attempt to smear their character smells of desperation and small-mindedness, and only says something about yous, or your lack of.
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yyc757
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Re: Strike vote

Post by yyc757 »

Hey Bede. ..

See nothing but crickets. Pathetic.



Come on weed pro. Answer Bede's question.
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WeedPro2000
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Re: Strike vote

Post by WeedPro2000 »

I’m having a great time with my phone lol. Since posting my number above, I have received 4 phone calls from salesman responding to my web request to have my BMW328 transported from Beverly Hills to Los Angeles and have received 22 separate calls from spoofed caller ID’s. I don’t think it’s a coincidence...

It’s harrassment, and it’s a crime, but it’s difficult, unless you’re the NSA to trace the calls.

Live well, Jungs!
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Flyingsquirrelsuck
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Flyingsquirrelsuck »

WeedPro2000 wrote: Wed May 02, 2018 6:53 am I’m having a great time with my phone lol. Since posting my number above, I have received 4 phone calls from salesman responding to my web request to have my BMW328 transported from Beverly Hills to Los Angeles and have received 22 separate calls from spoofed caller ID’s. I don’t think it’s a coincidence...

It’s harrassment, and it’s a crime, but it’s difficult, unless you’re the NSA to trace the calls.

Live well, Jungs!
He never answered the tuff questions. Just changes the subject.

Hey John, did you have anything to do with “Skull Gate”?
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Bede
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Bede »

yyc757 wrote: Wed May 02, 2018 5:45 am Hey Bede. ..

See nothing but crickets. Pathetic.



Come on weed pro. Answer Bede's question.
Yeah exactly. Everyone loves talking big but when pressed, they demure.

Contrary to popular belief, guys like Weedpro and Demeter aren't all about themselves- they're against their colleagues. Low ball offers have been around even during the wjpa days. (Remember the company wanted 767 to be flown at 737 rates). They benefit from other people demanding better yet refuse to acknowledge that their T4 is the result of tough negotiation by their colleagues (ALPA AND WJPA) rather than the benevolence of the company.

When pressed, the cognitive dissonce becomes overwhelming.

Eventually, our stand will result in everyone getting way more than the company is offering. At that point they will continue to blame their colleagues all while collecting better wages.
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RidersRule
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Re: Strike vote

Post by RidersRule »

yyc757 wrote: Wed May 02, 2018 5:45 am Hey Bede. ..

See nothing but crickets. Pathetic.



Come on weed pro. Answer Bede's question.
Anyone(WeedPro)...Anyone(WeedPro)...anyone(WeedPro)

Bueller(JS)....Beuller(JS).....Beuller (JS)...
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Bede
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Bede »

Bede wrote: Wed May 02, 2018 11:37 am
yyc757 wrote: Wed May 02, 2018 5:45 am Hey Bede. ..

See nothing but crickets. Pathetic.



Come on weed pro. Answer Bede's question.
Yeah exactly. Everyone loves talking big but when pressed, they demure.

Contrary to popular belief, guys like Weedpro and Demeter aren't all about themselves- they're against their colleagues. Low ball offers have been around even during the wjpa days. (Remember the company wanted 767 to be flown at 737 rates). They benefit from other people demanding better yet refuse to acknowledge that their T4 is the result of tough negotiation by their colleagues (ALPA AND WJPA) rather than the benevolence of the company.

When pressed, the cognitive dissonce becomes overwhelming.

Eventually, our stand will result in everyone getting way more than the company is offering. At that point they will continue to blame their colleagues all while collecting better wages. When we get a better contract will they accept the new contract or on principle, be willing to work for what the company offered? Let's be honest, if we didn't have a union (or even a WJPA for that matter), we'd be making what the company is offering right now. 2017 block hours, 19 days, no options, 10% ESP. If that's OK with you, fine, don't pay your dues, trash your representatives, and be willing to work for what the company is offering you. If you want better, you don't need to vocally support your union, but at the very least, don't make life more difficult for those of us trying to better for ALL of us.
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Crash_PadYYC
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Crash_PadYYC »

WeedPro2000 wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:11 am It's a beautiful spring day here in Alliston, finally! I spent the morning reading Winter Der Welt, the german language translation of a Ken Follet novel. I'm really enjoying reading it. I don't understand every word, but I get most of what he's writing. It's the second of a trilogy that details the relationships of the members of German, Russian, British, and American families in the period from 1933 leading into the second world war. With the perspective of someone who has never served his country, I can still appreciate the sacrifices made by those who have served. Reading of the loss of life and the suffering of millions, it puts things into perspective. I'm a privileged man.

In spite of that awareness, I have grown accustomed to my job and the people I meet as a result of it. I appreciate the creature comforts I have and the lifestyle that my job has afforded me. I like driving to work. I know that no matter what, I'll like interacting with our guests, as briefly as I do as a pilot. This is a great company and a great job. I'd hate to lose it.

After I lost the last airline job I had, I stayed up late in the night. I was in the process of moving into a new apartment in The Beaches in Toronto. The future was bright. I was looking forward to life in downtown (close anyway) T.O. It was going to be awesome. I can't remember where exactly I was when I wrote the following letter to myself, but it was late. I might have been at Joe's pIace in Mississauga. He was a pilot at Canada 3000 like myself, now at Sunwing. Fun guy. Italian. Confident. Great times. Anyway, think I had cried a little that night. Not for fear, just for the loss. C3 was a great company. Just didn't make a lot of money.

The following was finished late in the night. That time of the night when you shouldn't send letters to ex-girlfriends and such. The reason I'm reprinting here is because the emotions that are brought up by the possibility of an act so violent as a strike, remind me of those times. When I say violence, I mean violence against the corporation, against the employees there. A strike is an attack. A strike vote is not just a part of negotiation, it's a declaration that a group is prepared to do whatever it takes to injure the economic fortunes of all stake holders and customers of the company. I could never do that to this company. Not after what they've done for me.

This period in WJ's history reminds me of the scorpion in that story that asks the horse for a ride across the river. The horse says but you'll just sting me and kill me. The scorpion says no, I won't do that because it will just kill us both. Of course, halfway across the scorpion does just that, it stings the horse. As they both start sinking in the water, the horse says, why did you do that? The scorpion says, I couldn't help it, it's in my nature.

And so it is with unions, they can't help causing damage to the stakeholders of the organism that provides economic life to its employees, an investment return to the shareholders, and a valued service to its customers. Similarly, I can't do anything but fight against what unions represent and what they do. I'm loyal 100% to my employer.

Anyhow, I hope we all respect each other. We might not like what we individually do outside of the flight deck and out of the uniform, but that is life. Diversity.

In diversity,

John
STICK A FORK IN ME COS I'M DONE (from November 2001)


it's pretty late. after 3:00 am. Stone cold sober. i think i now realize that i've been in denial about our situation. Rationally i thought our chances were low. But emotionally i was in left field, pretty far out.

i'm feeling something akin to being a jilted lover. I've been spurned. Tossed away with yesterday's garbage without time to plead my case and convince her to stay. Five years ago i made the decision to get involved with another lover whose name was air atlantic.Thats after years of cheap dates, tawdry affairs that got me nowhere, but were fun. This new relationship was definitely better. Wasn't even jealous of the sexier outfit across the tarmac. I held off falling in love, however. It took some time. Then i got cosy. Then comfortable. Got used to working with the people, knowing my job, crapping on management. The drill. Thought it time to settle down. Buy house. Two car garage. Join dart league. Gots me a pension and medical coverage to boot. Then we started squabbling. The relationship went backwards for a while. Then appeared to stabilize. Maybe outsiders saw it coming. I didn't. She dumped me. Told me to get out of the house. So I took my real life GF on a road trip that went from YHZ to YUL.


My new lover, ROYAL, was a boost to my career. The 310 was good. Big. Took me far away. Was taught new techniques and positions, realized that i had much to learn. Cool. Drank beer in new locales and with new friends. No matter what time you arrived somewhere, after a couple of hours of sleep, it became friday night. Even got to practice my rusty french, with some success.

But i've been jilted before. I hope she'll understand if i don't go head over heels right away. I mean, i liked her enough. I think she had some warts, but lets call that character. But after eight months, she wants a break. Temporary she says. I don't trust her. I don't need a two month break. I've been here before, so i look around, find someone. She sure dresses well...

Where do i start? She's got pride. No doubt she's got pride. She's smart, sexy, and if you don't mind, pretty good in the sack. Her daddy ain't rich but that's cool. She used to be on the other team. Now i'm on her team. I'll have to move again to be near her, but that's my way in any case.

Sure hope i can fit in. Must be a chip on my shoulder. I think i might be a little standoffish. My previous GF's were just as good, i say. But i want her to like me, and i don't want to let on that i like her. Then i hear about a new girl back home in YHZ, wonder should i ditch this one and head east? No, i get rid of my real life GF instead and concentrate on my new life here, in TO.

Start liking the big city. Things are going great. Expansion. More planes, might see left seat for first time since light twins. I figger I got me a keeper. Jed, get yer sunday clothes, cos were off to the preacher.

You want a what? With my Ex???? Are you sick???? Maybe you don't realize the possible consequences... Awright, i'm in. Menage-a-trois it is. Let's just do it and get on with things.

I should have known she'd like it. Wants to try another one with a downeaster. Fair enough. But this is turning into one hell of an orgy. I'm uneasy, but i warm to the idea through creative visualization. We don't want a repeat of a well known shotgun marriage across town. If we can bring together some east coasters, some french guys, some city slickers, and some tree huggers and make it work, we'll have something really big.

Hmmm, economy slows. That marriage across town has problems. Lots and lots of counselling. Weekend retreats. Still fighting, and not just behind closed doors. Whacks on head with frying pans, real frying pans, not that nonstick eurotrash stuff.

Looks like they'll stay together, for the kids they say. Hope it works. Just glad we're not them. We're okay. My broker's a bit pissed but my accountant says we're in great shape. I trust.

Ah jesus, the inlaws are fighting with my folks. Apparently can't stand each other. Saw that coming.
Lawsuits. Name the blame game. I'm thinking separate beds for awhile, but no lets go on.

Was it Don Henley who said, "In a new york minute...everything can change". Yah, but we're okay aren't we? Well, you kept the receipts, right? How about a pre-nup? Okay. That's fine, lets just go visit that nice man at the bank and i'm sure we'll sort this out.

The bank guy's coming through. Hooray! Nervous laughter. Thing's will pick up in the spring, you watch.

Move to the Beaches district of TO. Rent's higher but its a happenin scene. I'll pick up a bed in a week or so, next paycheck. Tuesday. Sleeping on hardwood floor. Woke up early cos i'm sleeping on hardwood floor. Put on Howard Stern on the radio at 6:00 am. News bulletin at commercial break. Severing the relationship? Conflicting emotions. Watching motherinlaw go over cliff in new cadillac.

This will help right? I guess we're dreaming for the old days. You know, everybody happy. Sorry about that guys, but ya gotta go. So I go watch he-who-must-be-obeyed try to bully an independent government agency. I watch former colleagues and current friends want to tear him another asshole. I understand. But they say we have to , what do i know? I'll gain back those hundred numbers that date of hire gave me. But its still rude.

Tuesday. 6:00 pm. Fresh from Board of Directors meeting. Back to resume testimony. "I am hereby authorized by the board of directors to inform the CIRB that the BoD has resolved that unless you give me what i want, i'm taking my ball and going home." Oh yeah, instead of going to work for the last two months i've been playing Video Lottery Terminals and, all our savings are gone, credit cars are maxed, and i've popped my giggling pin.


Floored. Hurt. Scared. Pissed off. Why didn't you say something sooner? I could have helped. Meanwhile, mr man himself, empire building rich alberta dude is off on vacation. Rumours changing. Unions negotiating. Blame CUPE. The inevitable downward spiral. The emperor's new clothes...

It's now monday morning after 4:00 am. This letter has helped. I think i can sleep. unemployed. former airline pilot. credit cards maxed. still sleeping on floor. stiff upper lip right? honest that wasn't a tear at Arizona's the other night. If it was, it's because i was drunk...

So my lady is leaving me. "She's gone, 'by, she's gone". She let me down. Let me love her and sleep beside her, and leaves a lot of us wondering what might have been. Maybe the only way to truly fall in love is to let your guard down. Believe the dream. Smile on the way to work. Happy just to be there.


I'm not sure i'll love again. I hope so. Right now i look for answers that are not there because i don't have the whole picture. Maybe someday i'll know why she left me. If i do date agin in this industry, i'll try to be distant. Hands off. Sure you will. I give it six months and you'll be drinking the koolaid. Otherwise you just become one of those jaded old farts we call airline Captains. (No disrespect.)

She was sexy though, wasn't she...

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion ... cle764171/
The crumbling of Canada 3000
PUBLISHED NOVEMBER 10, 2001
UPDATED APRIL 12, 2018
It is bad enough to see an important company go bankrupt, but even worse to see it fail in the chaotic way that Canada 3000 collapsed late Thursday night.

All day Thursday, the airline continued to take new ticket bookings, saying it would restructure its operations and carry on. It appeared in court on Thursday afternoon to seek protection from creditors while it restructured, and senior officials laid out a long-term business plan for the court. "We're confident of our future prospects," spokeswoman Angela Saclamacis said Thursday.

Just hours later, Canada 3000 issued a brief press release saying it was shutting down all operations immediately. Thousands of stranded passengers were offered no help. Stunned employees, who had been reassured earlier in the day that all would end well, were left dangling -- although many heroically showed up for work yesterday morning, knowing they might not be paid.

Most bewildering of all, Canada 3000 offered no explanation for its unexpected change of heart, feeling, apparently, that it owed not even this small courtesy to the travellers and employees whose lives were affected.

It is too late now to usefully ask why Canada 3000 didn't begin a month ago to cut costs and lay off staff. It perhaps doesn't matter why Canada 3000 sought court protection on Thursday afternoon, rather than simply filing for bankruptcy if collapse was so imminent. All that is clear is that the airline ran out of room to manoeuvre at a terrible moment, when it was still trying to talk to the federal government about loan guarantees and to unions about concessions.

Yesterday, federal Transport Minister David Collenette said rescue talks were under way, and a deal to save the airline was still possible. Surely this is a long shot. Already, creditors are trying to seize assets, while passengers are more than spooked about booking a holiday ticket on a shaky airline.

What's more important now is to see a new plan from Ottawa for the long-term future of Canada's airline industry.

Canada has less airline competition than ever, with most new competitors -- CanJet, Royal, Canada 3000 and Roots Air -- disappearing this year. The only carriers still offering scheduled service (as opposed to chartered flights) are Air Canada and WestJet, and WestJet does not offer national coverage.

This is the time to repeat the call for new foreign-ownership rules to bring more sources of airline service to Canadians. Earlier this year, federal Competition Commissioner Konrad von Finckenstein proposed that Ottawa increase competition in airlines by allowing foreign investment above the current 25 per cent limit. His words should finally be heeded.

Canada should allow foreign airlines to own 100 per cent of a domestic airline, as long as it is based in Canada and operating only domestically. That would allow major U.S. airlines to set up Canadian subsidiaries, or to invest in existing Canadian airlines.

The airline industry is in crisis, and federal efforts to manage a system of controlled monopoly have been a disaster. It is time for the government to allow a fair shot to anyone brave enough to attempt a Canadian airline. Foreign ownership is immensely preferable to the industry's collapse.
John, you understand that a great deal of flight attendants call you Germanwings and refuse to fly with you, right? Your social media/forum posts paint you as being quite unstable.

I’ve worked with you many times with no issue, but you have to realize how you are perceived and it is scary.

CPYYC
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Demeter
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Demeter »

Flyingsquirrelsuck wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:10 pm
Demeter wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:55 pm
Bede wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:41 pm

Can you please elaborate on some of these "big promises"? From my recollection the MEC repeatidly said that they weren't making any promises.

Also I'm not sure what arbitrator you're talking about. We're not, nor have ever been in arbitration.
all the promises made during the drive by the OC members Just about everything brought up at the meetings is opposite of the flowers and rainbows promised and the arbitrator is referencing where this is headed
And what have you done for the pilot group? Anything positive? Only complain but never volunteer any time to fixing the problem.

Selfish and clueless
:smt008
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The Tenth Man
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Re: Strike vote

Post by The Tenth Man »

cloak wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:39 pm
lostaviator wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:57 am ...
"Swoop won't replace WestJet flying" they said.
Replace = "take place of".
Look up YXX-YWG this summer and see who's flying it. Swoop is replacing Westjet flying.
...
Although it cannot always be taken too literally, meaning one has to consider the total aggregate. While one route might be given to Swoop because of better suitability, others will likely be added elsewhere.

And speaking of office people, keep in mind if there is no flying some of the other folks will not have much to do and likely will be furloughed...Strike is almost never a good thing, neither is an arbitration ever going to be better than a negotiated agreement.
cloak for the win.
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cloak
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Re: Strike vote

Post by cloak »

This is a simple fact and those that have been around for a while know that an employee group never achieves a great contract by antagonizing, posturing and other forceful tactics ending in arbitration. "Good" contracts have always been won by negotiations, sometimes painstakingly slow and methodical negotiations.

It's like a marriage really. How many people enter their marriage after much wrangling and haggling ending in arbitration? Is such marriage even worth it? For these people that are so miserable, isn't it better for all parties if they take their leave and find someone else?

It's a bit cliché but a union/association is only as good as the people that are on it. If the MEC/LEC/negotiation committee don't even have a good enough rapport to bring the executives to the table, it's time to change them and change the approach.
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Flyingsquirrelsuck
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Flyingsquirrelsuck »

cloak wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:42 am This is a simple fact and those that have been around for a while know that an employee group never achieves a great contract by antagonizing, posturing and other forceful tactics ending in arbitration. "Good" contracts have always been won by negotiations, sometimes painstakingly slow and methodical negotiations.

It's like a marriage really. How many people enter their marriage after much wrangling and haggling ending in arbitration? Is such marriage even worth it? For these people that are so miserable, isn't it better for all parties if they take their leave and find someone else?

It's a bit cliché but a union/association is only as good as the people that are on it. If the MEC/LEC/negotiation committee don't even have a good enough rapport to bring the executives to the table, it's time to change them and change the approach.
Your post is putting all the blame on the pilots for the rocky relationship. Why did we unionize in the first place?

Your telling me that WJ management doesn’t share any of the blame for the rocky relationship. The same people that didn’t show up for negotiation meetings. Showing up late, and ultimately forced mediation AND arbitration (remember the Minister of Labour showed up at Westjet in person) between the two sides.

Tell me, since your so sure of yourself, how to do “change the approach?”
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Demeter
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Demeter »

At least you said this: “Your telling me that WJ management doesn’t share any of the blame for the rocky relationship.”
Many sold the pie in the sky. Yourself as well while u were on the organizing committee and where is your accountability? You and others close to you got sold on what you thought would come of all this. Kaplan schooled the group not WJ.
I’m still going to come to work happy. I like working here. I like the socialized bidding and socialized selection of holidays. I think the years of service is great and super happy about the 20percent share match still intact. Good airplanes, passes and routes to fly.
Hated the first mec but happy about the new chair. And I couldn’t give a rats butt if I help in the cabin with the flight attendants. I find it laughable that the most vocals are now doing the finger pointing towards ONLY the company. And btw exec don’t usually show up at tables to negotiate. Just like the mec stays hidden away in the background themselves.personally I think a good look at committee members with personal agendas should be looked at too. I think many are there for the wrong reasons but most are great
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Last edited by Demeter on Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Demeter »

Good post cloak
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DrSpaceman
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Re: Strike vote

Post by DrSpaceman »

cloak = demeter = china?
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Demeter
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Demeter »

you will never see me apply there. No thanks. You Give it a whirl. You will see why they have to entice folks with big money. I’ll continue to support our outrageous taxes and live in the country where I grew up thanks.
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Re: Strike vote

Post by The Tenth Man »

DrSpaceman wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:57 pm cloak = demeter = china?
I shouldn't be here, but I must correct the record.

It is my suspicion that demeter and cloak are NOT the same people, and neither one of them are me.

While I'm here, I want to address Greg G.'s post above where he said:
"...your post is putting all the blame on the pilots for the rocky relationship. Why did we unionize in the first place?

Your telling me that WJ management doesn’t share any of the blame for the rocky relationship. The same people that didn’t show up for negotiation meetings. Showing up late, and ultimately forced mediation AND arbitration (remember the Minister of Labour showed up at Westjet in person) between the two sides.

Tell me, since your so sure of yourself, how to do “change the approach?” "
If the WJ pilot group wanted to send a clear and unequivocal message that they intended to adopt a confrontational approach in their dealings with the company, then they should have elected as their leader the previous head of the WPPA. The WPPA, a very in your face confrontational group of individuals who inadvisedly launched several unsuccessful unfair labour practice complaints against WJ with the CIRB. Doing so would have made the company see red everytime they saw that man's face on TV or in person.

And that's just what they did. The former MEC Chairman is not a statesman. He may be many things, but he is not a consensus builder, not a negotiator and not an effective leader. But that's who your system chose.

And the WJ pilots are going to repeat that mistake by doubling down on the WPPA team, in their current round of elections. Y
Good luck with that.

Ok, now I gotta go. I'm watching BASE videos and getting hyped up for a great season. Who knows, maybe I will head to Italy if I get the courage, and maybe I'll try out a jump from an antenna if I lose my mind.

Sayonara Amigos!
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Hangry »

byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
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Flyingsquirrelsuck
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Flyingsquirrelsuck »

The Tenth Man wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:41 pm
DrSpaceman wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:57 pm cloak = demeter = china?
I shouldn't be here, but I must correct the record.

It is my suspicion that demeter and cloak are NOT the same people, and neither one of them are me.

While I'm here, I want to address Greg G.'s post above where he said:
"...your post is putting all the blame on the pilots for the rocky relationship. Why did we unionize in the first place?

Your telling me that WJ management doesn’t share any of the blame for the rocky relationship. The same people that didn’t show up for negotiation meetings. Showing up late, and ultimately forced mediation AND arbitration (remember the Minister of Labour showed up at Westjet in person) between the two sides.

Tell me, since your so sure of yourself, how to do “change the approach?” "
If the WJ pilot group wanted to send a clear and unequivocal message that they intended to adopt a confrontational approach in their dealings with the company, then they should have elected as their leader the previous head of the WPPA. The WPPA, a very in your face confrontational group of individuals who inadvisedly launched several unsuccessful unfair labour practice complaints against WJ with the CIRB. Doing so would have made the company see red everytime they saw that man's face on TV or in person.

And that's just what they did. The former MEC Chairman is not a statesman. He may be many things, but he is not a consensus builder, not a negotiator and not an effective leader. But that's who your system chose.

And the WJ pilots are going to repeat that mistake by doubling down on the WPPA team, in their current round of elections. Y
Good luck with that.

Ok, now I gotta go. I'm watching BASE videos and getting hyped up for a great season. Who knows, maybe I will head to Italy if I get the courage, and maybe I'll try out a jump from an antenna if I lose my mind.

Sayonara Amigos!
John

Actually I was waiting for an answer from cloak not you.

Again, you didn’t answer the question just more verbal diarrhea and off the topic crap. It’s just getting really old and tired John. Just look at the WestJet thread. It’s all you buddy, and it’s kind of sad.

I thought you were going to take a break from posting?
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