Strike vote

Discuss topics relating to Westjet.

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Bede
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Bede »

Weedpro,

Can you please answer my question above. I'd like to know your opinion on the terms of employment that our leadership team is offering. You seem plenty eager to express your opinion, but whenever you're pressed, you seem to evade the question. This suggests that you're really not interested in producing anything substantive, but are here (and the AGM) to troll your colleagues.
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cloak
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Re: Strike vote

Post by cloak »

tbaylx wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:56 am If someone doesn't agree with you it doesn't make them crazy. There are plenty of opinions on the ALPA side that have been expressed on this forum as well that are as one sided as his.
Exactly, plus those on the outside that may offer a fresh perspective. For instance if the company really needs/wants Swoop and it happens, use that as a bargaining chip to get things that are really important to your membership in return; that and also provisions to ensure continued growth and opportunities at mainline.
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WeedPro2000
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Re: Strike vote

Post by WeedPro2000 »

It's a beautiful spring day here in Alliston, finally! I spent the morning reading Winter Der Welt, the german language translation of a Ken Follet novel. I'm really enjoying reading it. I don't understand every word, but I get most of what he's writing. It's the second of a trilogy that details the relationships of the members of German, Russian, British, and American families in the period from 1933 leading into the second world war. With the perspective of someone who has never served his country, I can still appreciate the sacrifices made by those who have served. Reading of the loss of life and the suffering of millions, it puts things into perspective. I'm a privileged man.

In spite of that awareness, I have grown accustomed to my job and the people I meet as a result of it. I appreciate the creature comforts I have and the lifestyle that my job has afforded me. I like driving to work. I know that no matter what, I'll like interacting with our guests, as briefly as I do as a pilot. This is a great company and a great job. I'd hate to lose it.

After I lost the last airline job I had, I stayed up late in the night. I was in the process of moving into a new apartment in The Beaches in Toronto. The future was bright. I was looking forward to life in downtown (close anyway) T.O. It was going to be awesome. I can't remember where exactly I was when I wrote the following letter to myself, but it was late. I might have been at Joe's pIace in Mississauga. He was a pilot at Canada 3000 like myself, now at Sunwing. Fun guy. Italian. Confident. Great times. Anyway, think I had cried a little that night. Not for fear, just for the loss. C3 was a great company. Just didn't make a lot of money.

The following was finished late in the night. That time of the night when you shouldn't send letters to ex-girlfriends and such. The reason I'm reprinting here is because the emotions that are brought up by the possibility of an act so violent as a strike, remind me of those times. When I say violence, I mean violence against the corporation, against the employees there. A strike is an attack. A strike vote is not just a part of negotiation, it's a declaration that a group is prepared to do whatever it takes to injure the economic fortunes of all stake holders and customers of the company. I could never do that to this company. Not after what they've done for me.

This period in WJ's history reminds me of the scorpion in that story that asks the horse for a ride across the river. The horse says but you'll just sting me and kill me. The scorpion says no, I won't do that because it will just kill us both. Of course, halfway across the scorpion does just that, it stings the horse. As they both start sinking in the water, the horse says, why did you do that? The scorpion says, I couldn't help it, it's in my nature.

And so it is with unions, they can't help causing damage to the stakeholders of the organism that provides economic life to its employees, an investment return to the shareholders, and a valued service to its customers. Similarly, I can't do anything but fight against what unions represent and what they do. I'm loyal 100% to my employer.

Anyhow, I hope we all respect each other. We might not like what we individually do outside of the flight deck and out of the uniform, but that is life. Diversity.

In diversity,

John
STICK A FORK IN ME COS I'M DONE (from November 2001)


it's pretty late. after 3:00 am. Stone cold sober. i think i now realize that i've been in denial about our situation. Rationally i thought our chances were low. But emotionally i was in left field, pretty far out.

i'm feeling something akin to being a jilted lover. I've been spurned. Tossed away with yesterday's garbage without time to plead my case and convince her to stay. Five years ago i made the decision to get involved with another lover whose name was air atlantic.Thats after years of cheap dates, tawdry affairs that got me nowhere, but were fun. This new relationship was definitely better. Wasn't even jealous of the sexier outfit across the tarmac. I held off falling in love, however. It took some time. Then i got cosy. Then comfortable. Got used to working with the people, knowing my job, crapping on management. The drill. Thought it time to settle down. Buy house. Two car garage. Join dart league. Gots me a pension and medical coverage to boot. Then we started squabbling. The relationship went backwards for a while. Then appeared to stabilize. Maybe outsiders saw it coming. I didn't. She dumped me. Told me to get out of the house. So I took my real life GF on a road trip that went from YHZ to YUL.


My new lover, ROYAL, was a boost to my career. The 310 was good. Big. Took me far away. Was taught new techniques and positions, realized that i had much to learn. Cool. Drank beer in new locales and with new friends. No matter what time you arrived somewhere, after a couple of hours of sleep, it became friday night. Even got to practice my rusty french, with some success.

But i've been jilted before. I hope she'll understand if i don't go head over heels right away. I mean, i liked her enough. I think she had some warts, but lets call that character. But after eight months, she wants a break. Temporary she says. I don't trust her. I don't need a two month break. I've been here before, so i look around, find someone. She sure dresses well...

Where do i start? She's got pride. No doubt she's got pride. She's smart, sexy, and if you don't mind, pretty good in the sack. Her daddy ain't rich but that's cool. She used to be on the other team. Now i'm on her team. I'll have to move again to be near her, but that's my way in any case.

Sure hope i can fit in. Must be a chip on my shoulder. I think i might be a little standoffish. My previous GF's were just as good, i say. But i want her to like me, and i don't want to let on that i like her. Then i hear about a new girl back home in YHZ, wonder should i ditch this one and head east? No, i get rid of my real life GF instead and concentrate on my new life here, in TO.

Start liking the big city. Things are going great. Expansion. More planes, might see left seat for first time since light twins. I figger I got me a keeper. Jed, get yer sunday clothes, cos were off to the preacher.

You want a what? With my Ex???? Are you sick???? Maybe you don't realize the possible consequences... Awright, i'm in. Menage-a-trois it is. Let's just do it and get on with things.

I should have known she'd like it. Wants to try another one with a downeaster. Fair enough. But this is turning into one hell of an orgy. I'm uneasy, but i warm to the idea through creative visualization. We don't want a repeat of a well known shotgun marriage across town. If we can bring together some east coasters, some french guys, some city slickers, and some tree huggers and make it work, we'll have something really big.

Hmmm, economy slows. That marriage across town has problems. Lots and lots of counselling. Weekend retreats. Still fighting, and not just behind closed doors. Whacks on head with frying pans, real frying pans, not that nonstick eurotrash stuff.

Looks like they'll stay together, for the kids they say. Hope it works. Just glad we're not them. We're okay. My broker's a bit pissed but my accountant says we're in great shape. I trust.

Ah jesus, the inlaws are fighting with my folks. Apparently can't stand each other. Saw that coming.
Lawsuits. Name the blame game. I'm thinking separate beds for awhile, but no lets go on.

Was it Don Henley who said, "In a new york minute...everything can change". Yah, but we're okay aren't we? Well, you kept the receipts, right? How about a pre-nup? Okay. That's fine, lets just go visit that nice man at the bank and i'm sure we'll sort this out.

The bank guy's coming through. Hooray! Nervous laughter. Thing's will pick up in the spring, you watch.

Move to the Beaches district of TO. Rent's higher but its a happenin scene. I'll pick up a bed in a week or so, next paycheck. Tuesday. Sleeping on hardwood floor. Woke up early cos i'm sleeping on hardwood floor. Put on Howard Stern on the radio at 6:00 am. News bulletin at commercial break. Severing the relationship? Conflicting emotions. Watching motherinlaw go over cliff in new cadillac.

This will help right? I guess we're dreaming for the old days. You know, everybody happy. Sorry about that guys, but ya gotta go. So I go watch he-who-must-be-obeyed try to bully an independent government agency. I watch former colleagues and current friends want to tear him another asshole. I understand. But they say we have to , what do i know? I'll gain back those hundred numbers that date of hire gave me. But its still rude.

Tuesday. 6:00 pm. Fresh from Board of Directors meeting. Back to resume testimony. "I am hereby authorized by the board of directors to inform the CIRB that the BoD has resolved that unless you give me what i want, i'm taking my ball and going home." Oh yeah, instead of going to work for the last two months i've been playing Video Lottery Terminals and, all our savings are gone, credit cars are maxed, and i've popped my giggling pin.


Floored. Hurt. Scared. Pissed off. Why didn't you say something sooner? I could have helped. Meanwhile, mr man himself, empire building rich alberta dude is off on vacation. Rumours changing. Unions negotiating. Blame CUPE. The inevitable downward spiral. The emperor's new clothes...

It's now monday morning after 4:00 am. This letter has helped. I think i can sleep. unemployed. former airline pilot. credit cards maxed. still sleeping on floor. stiff upper lip right? honest that wasn't a tear at Arizona's the other night. If it was, it's because i was drunk...

So my lady is leaving me. "She's gone, 'by, she's gone". She let me down. Let me love her and sleep beside her, and leaves a lot of us wondering what might have been. Maybe the only way to truly fall in love is to let your guard down. Believe the dream. Smile on the way to work. Happy just to be there.


I'm not sure i'll love again. I hope so. Right now i look for answers that are not there because i don't have the whole picture. Maybe someday i'll know why she left me. If i do date agin in this industry, i'll try to be distant. Hands off. Sure you will. I give it six months and you'll be drinking the koolaid. Otherwise you just become one of those jaded old farts we call airline Captains. (No disrespect.)

She was sexy though, wasn't she...

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion ... cle764171/
The crumbling of Canada 3000
PUBLISHED NOVEMBER 10, 2001
UPDATED APRIL 12, 2018
It is bad enough to see an important company go bankrupt, but even worse to see it fail in the chaotic way that Canada 3000 collapsed late Thursday night.

All day Thursday, the airline continued to take new ticket bookings, saying it would restructure its operations and carry on. It appeared in court on Thursday afternoon to seek protection from creditors while it restructured, and senior officials laid out a long-term business plan for the court. "We're confident of our future prospects," spokeswoman Angela Saclamacis said Thursday.

Just hours later, Canada 3000 issued a brief press release saying it was shutting down all operations immediately. Thousands of stranded passengers were offered no help. Stunned employees, who had been reassured earlier in the day that all would end well, were left dangling -- although many heroically showed up for work yesterday morning, knowing they might not be paid.

Most bewildering of all, Canada 3000 offered no explanation for its unexpected change of heart, feeling, apparently, that it owed not even this small courtesy to the travellers and employees whose lives were affected.

It is too late now to usefully ask why Canada 3000 didn't begin a month ago to cut costs and lay off staff. It perhaps doesn't matter why Canada 3000 sought court protection on Thursday afternoon, rather than simply filing for bankruptcy if collapse was so imminent. All that is clear is that the airline ran out of room to manoeuvre at a terrible moment, when it was still trying to talk to the federal government about loan guarantees and to unions about concessions.

Yesterday, federal Transport Minister David Collenette said rescue talks were under way, and a deal to save the airline was still possible. Surely this is a long shot. Already, creditors are trying to seize assets, while passengers are more than spooked about booking a holiday ticket on a shaky airline.

What's more important now is to see a new plan from Ottawa for the long-term future of Canada's airline industry.

Canada has less airline competition than ever, with most new competitors -- CanJet, Royal, Canada 3000 and Roots Air -- disappearing this year. The only carriers still offering scheduled service (as opposed to chartered flights) are Air Canada and WestJet, and WestJet does not offer national coverage.

This is the time to repeat the call for new foreign-ownership rules to bring more sources of airline service to Canadians. Earlier this year, federal Competition Commissioner Konrad von Finckenstein proposed that Ottawa increase competition in airlines by allowing foreign investment above the current 25 per cent limit. His words should finally be heeded.

Canada should allow foreign airlines to own 100 per cent of a domestic airline, as long as it is based in Canada and operating only domestically. That would allow major U.S. airlines to set up Canadian subsidiaries, or to invest in existing Canadian airlines.

The airline industry is in crisis, and federal efforts to manage a system of controlled monopoly have been a disaster. It is time for the government to allow a fair shot to anyone brave enough to attempt a Canadian airline. Foreign ownership is immensely preferable to the industry's collapse.
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Demeter
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Demeter »

hurtin'albertan wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:47 pm
Demeter wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:21 pm U mean loyal like CT and TP in our mec applying to AC?
For one, you have no proof that this is true, and even if it was (which likely only they and Air Canada HR would know if they applied) what does it matter? Making up rumours to disparage your fellow pilots just to suit your personal selfish agenda?

Classless. Completely classless.

Posts from this particular greek demigod handle can be considered bullshit going forward, IMO. Go back to screwing with the harvest.

For you to question these two individuals loyalty to the wj pilot group after all the time and efforts they have spent to improve the lot of wj pilots is beyond the pale. I have seen nothing but dedication to the wj pilot group and a true sense of integrity from both these people any time I have had the pleasure to meet them.

What have you done for your fellow pilots lately other than make up a handle on avcanada to spread bullshit?

You should consider deleting your post. It crosses a line of personal attack that is completely unwarranted and unfounded in reality.
Perhaps give them a call yourself! Apology accepted :goodman:
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Flyingsquirrelsuck
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Flyingsquirrelsuck »

WeedPro2000 wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:11 am It's a beautiful spring day here in Alliston, finally! I spent the morning reading Winter Der Welt, the german language translation of a Ken Follet novel. I'm really enjoying reading it. I don't understand every word, but I get most of what he's writing. It's the second of a trilogy that details the relationships of the members of German, Russian, British, and American families in the period from 1933 leading into the second world war. With the perspective of someone who has never served his country, I can still appreciate the sacrifices made by those who have served. Reading of the loss of life and the suffering of millions, it puts things into perspective. I'm a privileged man.

In spite of that awareness, I have grown accustomed to my job and the people I meet as a result of it. I appreciate the creature comforts I have and the lifestyle that my job has afforded me. I like driving to work. I know that no matter what, I'll like interacting with our guests, as briefly as I do as a pilot. This is a great company and a great job. I'd hate to lose it.

After I lost the last airline job I had, I stayed up late in the night. I was in the process of moving into a new apartment in The Beaches in Toronto. The future was bright. I was looking forward to life in downtown (close anyway) T.O. It was going to be awesome. I can't remember where exactly I was when I wrote the following letter to myself, but it was late. I might have been at Joe's pIace in Mississauga. He was a pilot at Canada 3000 like myself, now at Sunwing. Fun guy. Italian. Confident. Great times. Anyway, think I had cried a little that night. Not for fear, just for the loss. C3 was a great company. Just didn't make a lot of money.

The following was finished late in the night. That time of the night when you shouldn't send letters to ex-girlfriends and such. The reason I'm reprinting here is because the emotions that are brought up by the possibility of an act so violent as a strike, remind me of those times. When I say violence, I mean violence against the corporation, against the employees there. A strike is an attack. A strike vote is not just a part of negotiation, it's a declaration that a group is prepared to do whatever it takes to injure the economic fortunes of all stake holders and customers of the company. I could never do that to this company. Not after what they've done for me.

This period in WJ's history reminds me of the scorpion in that story that asks the horse for a ride across the river. The horse says but you'll just sting me and kill me. The scorpion says no, I won't do that because it will just kill us both. Of course, halfway across the scorpion does just that, it stings the horse. As they both start sinking in the water, the horse says, why did you do that? The scorpion says, I couldn't help it, it's in my nature.

And so it is with unions, they can't help causing damage to the stakeholders of the organism that provides economic life to its employees, an investment return to the shareholders, and a valued service to its customers. Similarly, I can't do anything but fight against what unions represent and what they do. I'm loyal 100% to my employer.

Anyhow, I hope we all respect each other. We might not like what we individually do outside of the flight deck and out of the uniform, but that is life. Diversity.

In diversity,

John
STICK A FORK IN ME COS I'M DONE (from November 2001)


it's pretty late. after 3:00 am. Stone cold sober. i think i now realize that i've been in denial about our situation. Rationally i thought our chances were low. But emotionally i was in left field, pretty far out.

i'm feeling something akin to being a jilted lover. I've been spurned. Tossed away with yesterday's garbage without time to plead my case and convince her to stay. Five years ago i made the decision to get involved with another lover whose name was air atlantic.Thats after years of cheap dates, tawdry affairs that got me nowhere, but were fun. This new relationship was definitely better. Wasn't even jealous of the sexier outfit across the tarmac. I held off falling in love, however. It took some time. Then i got cosy. Then comfortable. Got used to working with the people, knowing my job, crapping on management. The drill. Thought it time to settle down. Buy house. Two car garage. Join dart league. Gots me a pension and medical coverage to boot. Then we started squabbling. The relationship went backwards for a while. Then appeared to stabilize. Maybe outsiders saw it coming. I didn't. She dumped me. Told me to get out of the house. So I took my real life GF on a road trip that went from YHZ to YUL.


My new lover, ROYAL, was a boost to my career. The 310 was good. Big. Took me far away. Was taught new techniques and positions, realized that i had much to learn. Cool. Drank beer in new locales and with new friends. No matter what time you arrived somewhere, after a couple of hours of sleep, it became friday night. Even got to practice my rusty french, with some success.

But i've been jilted before. I hope she'll understand if i don't go head over heels right away. I mean, i liked her enough. I think she had some warts, but lets call that character. But after eight months, she wants a break. Temporary she says. I don't trust her. I don't need a two month break. I've been here before, so i look around, find someone. She sure dresses well...

Where do i start? She's got pride. No doubt she's got pride. She's smart, sexy, and if you don't mind, pretty good in the sack. Her daddy ain't rich but that's cool. She used to be on the other team. Now i'm on her team. I'll have to move again to be near her, but that's my way in any case.

Sure hope i can fit in. Must be a chip on my shoulder. I think i might be a little standoffish. My previous GF's were just as good, i say. But i want her to like me, and i don't want to let on that i like her. Then i hear about a new girl back home in YHZ, wonder should i ditch this one and head east? No, i get rid of my real life GF instead and concentrate on my new life here, in TO.

Start liking the big city. Things are going great. Expansion. More planes, might see left seat for first time since light twins. I figger I got me a keeper. Jed, get yer sunday clothes, cos were off to the preacher.

You want a what? With my Ex???? Are you sick???? Maybe you don't realize the possible consequences... Awright, i'm in. Menage-a-trois it is. Let's just do it and get on with things.

I should have known she'd like it. Wants to try another one with a downeaster. Fair enough. But this is turning into one hell of an orgy. I'm uneasy, but i warm to the idea through creative visualization. We don't want a repeat of a well known shotgun marriage across town. If we can bring together some east coasters, some french guys, some city slickers, and some tree huggers and make it work, we'll have something really big.

Hmmm, economy slows. That marriage across town has problems. Lots and lots of counselling. Weekend retreats. Still fighting, and not just behind closed doors. Whacks on head with frying pans, real frying pans, not that nonstick eurotrash stuff.

Looks like they'll stay together, for the kids they say. Hope it works. Just glad we're not them. We're okay. My broker's a bit pissed but my accountant says we're in great shape. I trust.

Ah jesus, the inlaws are fighting with my folks. Apparently can't stand each other. Saw that coming.
Lawsuits. Name the blame game. I'm thinking separate beds for awhile, but no lets go on.

Was it Don Henley who said, "In a new york minute...everything can change". Yah, but we're okay aren't we? Well, you kept the receipts, right? How about a pre-nup? Okay. That's fine, lets just go visit that nice man at the bank and i'm sure we'll sort this out.

The bank guy's coming through. Hooray! Nervous laughter. Thing's will pick up in the spring, you watch.

Move to the Beaches district of TO. Rent's higher but its a happenin scene. I'll pick up a bed in a week or so, next paycheck. Tuesday. Sleeping on hardwood floor. Woke up early cos i'm sleeping on hardwood floor. Put on Howard Stern on the radio at 6:00 am. News bulletin at commercial break. Severing the relationship? Conflicting emotions. Watching motherinlaw go over cliff in new cadillac.

This will help right? I guess we're dreaming for the old days. You know, everybody happy. Sorry about that guys, but ya gotta go. So I go watch he-who-must-be-obeyed try to bully an independent government agency. I watch former colleagues and current friends want to tear him another asshole. I understand. But they say we have to , what do i know? I'll gain back those hundred numbers that date of hire gave me. But its still rude.

Tuesday. 6:00 pm. Fresh from Board of Directors meeting. Back to resume testimony. "I am hereby authorized by the board of directors to inform the CIRB that the BoD has resolved that unless you give me what i want, i'm taking my ball and going home." Oh yeah, instead of going to work for the last two months i've been playing Video Lottery Terminals and, all our savings are gone, credit cars are maxed, and i've popped my giggling pin.


Floored. Hurt. Scared. Pissed off. Why didn't you say something sooner? I could have helped. Meanwhile, mr man himself, empire building rich alberta dude is off on vacation. Rumours changing. Unions negotiating. Blame CUPE. The inevitable downward spiral. The emperor's new clothes...

It's now monday morning after 4:00 am. This letter has helped. I think i can sleep. unemployed. former airline pilot. credit cards maxed. still sleeping on floor. stiff upper lip right? honest that wasn't a tear at Arizona's the other night. If it was, it's because i was drunk...

So my lady is leaving me. "She's gone, 'by, she's gone". She let me down. Let me love her and sleep beside her, and leaves a lot of us wondering what might have been. Maybe the only way to truly fall in love is to let your guard down. Believe the dream. Smile on the way to work. Happy just to be there.


I'm not sure i'll love again. I hope so. Right now i look for answers that are not there because i don't have the whole picture. Maybe someday i'll know why she left me. If i do date agin in this industry, i'll try to be distant. Hands off. Sure you will. I give it six months and you'll be drinking the koolaid. Otherwise you just become one of those jaded old farts we call airline Captains. (No disrespect.)

She was sexy though, wasn't she...

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion ... cle764171/
The crumbling of Canada 3000
PUBLISHED NOVEMBER 10, 2001
UPDATED APRIL 12, 2018
It is bad enough to see an important company go bankrupt, but even worse to see it fail in the chaotic way that Canada 3000 collapsed late Thursday night.

All day Thursday, the airline continued to take new ticket bookings, saying it would restructure its operations and carry on. It appeared in court on Thursday afternoon to seek protection from creditors while it restructured, and senior officials laid out a long-term business plan for the court. "We're confident of our future prospects," spokeswoman Angela Saclamacis said Thursday.

Just hours later, Canada 3000 issued a brief press release saying it was shutting down all operations immediately. Thousands of stranded passengers were offered no help. Stunned employees, who had been reassured earlier in the day that all would end well, were left dangling -- although many heroically showed up for work yesterday morning, knowing they might not be paid.

Most bewildering of all, Canada 3000 offered no explanation for its unexpected change of heart, feeling, apparently, that it owed not even this small courtesy to the travellers and employees whose lives were affected.

It is too late now to usefully ask why Canada 3000 didn't begin a month ago to cut costs and lay off staff. It perhaps doesn't matter why Canada 3000 sought court protection on Thursday afternoon, rather than simply filing for bankruptcy if collapse was so imminent. All that is clear is that the airline ran out of room to manoeuvre at a terrible moment, when it was still trying to talk to the federal government about loan guarantees and to unions about concessions.

Yesterday, federal Transport Minister David Collenette said rescue talks were under way, and a deal to save the airline was still possible. Surely this is a long shot. Already, creditors are trying to seize assets, while passengers are more than spooked about booking a holiday ticket on a shaky airline.

What's more important now is to see a new plan from Ottawa for the long-term future of Canada's airline industry.

Canada has less airline competition than ever, with most new competitors -- CanJet, Royal, Canada 3000 and Roots Air -- disappearing this year. The only carriers still offering scheduled service (as opposed to chartered flights) are Air Canada and WestJet, and WestJet does not offer national coverage.

This is the time to repeat the call for new foreign-ownership rules to bring more sources of airline service to Canadians. Earlier this year, federal Competition Commissioner Konrad von Finckenstein proposed that Ottawa increase competition in airlines by allowing foreign investment above the current 25 per cent limit. His words should finally be heeded.

Canada should allow foreign airlines to own 100 per cent of a domestic airline, as long as it is based in Canada and operating only domestically. That would allow major U.S. airlines to set up Canadian subsidiaries, or to invest in existing Canadian airlines.

The airline industry is in crisis, and federal efforts to manage a system of controlled monopoly have been a disaster. It is time for the government to allow a fair shot to anyone brave enough to attempt a Canadian airline. Foreign ownership is immensely preferable to the industry's collapse.
Well another feel sorry for me post John. Your saying all unions are bad for business. How in the world dose Delta, United, American, SWA, Air Canada and the other 97% of North American Airlines do it? Fly people, make money and treat there employees fairly and ethically?

Our executive have abused the good will of the employees, lied and crushed culture. And your backing this behaviour 100% why? I know, because your not affected by the change. Swoop isn’t bad because it doesn’t effect you directly. Again clueless to our future as a pilot group. Westjet isn’t going to shut down, close it’s doors etc. It’s just something people say to bring fear into the conversation because they don’t have a proper understanding of the situation.
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countdown
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Re: Strike vote

Post by countdown »

This is Canada, and Air Canada - whom we want to emulate - rarely makes money - lost 170 million last quarter. How much of a hourly raise do WJ pilots need to cover the loss of all profit share and the paying of union dues?

I don't know, it's just part of the equation.

No easy answers to the shit storm we find ourselves in - at least without the rose colored glasses...
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mbav8r
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Re: Strike vote

Post by mbav8r »

countdown wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:20 pm This is Canada, and Air Canada - whom we want to emulate - rarely makes money - lost 170 million last quarter. How much of a hourly raise do WJ pilots need to cover the loss of all profit share and the paying of union dues?

I don't know, it's just part of the equation.

No easy answers to the shit storm we find ourselves in - at least without the rose colored glasses...
The biggest threat to a WJ pilots career right now is Swoop, you already had protection from a threat such as that yet here you are fighting it.
AC plans to respond to ULCCs with strategic no frills seats on routes that are being served by them. WJ could easily do the same but opted for the “violent” threat of 40 fins to swoop, I used violent sarcastically to point out the absurdity of weedpros previous post. WJ market share of the domestic market has been somewhat stagnant for awhile now and any growth of Swoop will have to come from Mainline, that’s obvious to anyone with half a brain. Unfortunately the fact that the CIRB has not ruled yet and appears to be waiting for conciliation to be over or something else means you would have to give up bargaining capital for something you already have.
This alone is why you need to give a strong message that you’re willing to walk, I don’t take it lightly when I say that because I’ve been there and it was a scary thought to find yourself without any income. Ask yourself, who has more to lose, a months income individually or millions of daily revenue, they are threatening your career, you need to launch your own threat!
Good luck
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Transonic
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Transonic »

countdown wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:20 pm This is Canada, and Air Canada - whom we want to emulate - rarely makes money - lost 170 million last quarter. How much of a hourly raise do WJ pilots need to cover the loss of all profit share and the paying of union dues?

I don't know, it's just part of the equation.

No easy answers to the shit storm we find ourselves in - at least without the rose colored glasses...

Profit share is a component of our compensation, it's not an add on or a bonus for being non-unionized. If we don't get profit share in the CBA, then it will be converted to an hourly rate based on the historical averages. It's in the company's best interest to keep profit share rather than an hourly rate increase, in lieu of.

As mentioned before, if we get STD and LTD 100% company funded like AC, that alone covers the cost of union dues plus more.
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WF9F
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Re: Strike vote

Post by WF9F »

For all you guys who trust the company 100% , you are only afforded that choice because of unions. Very naive and dangerous to think like that IMO...
And I doubt you would change your way of thinking even if Swoop takes your Mainline flying and that is going to happen if it gets going.
I've seen it firsthand at AC with Rouge.
Canada is a small market with only 35 million people or so and there are only so many routes you can put a 737 on and to think The flying is not going to come from Mainline is delusional.
What's even more crazy is to believe what management tells you, they could care less about you or your Mainline flying.

Just my humble opinion from an AC guy who hopes you guys don't start a mess like we have with Rouge.
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yycflyguy
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Re: Strike vote

Post by yycflyguy »

PostmasterGeneral wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:27 am I think I speak for a lot of my fellow non-WJ pilots when I say that we are all backing you guys 100% in this.

It goes beyond what logo is painted on the tail here. It’s aboit improving the industry in Canada as a whole. Regardless of who we work for, we should all stand united on this front.
My sentiments exactly.

I really would like to see a professional pilot group in Canada stand up for themselves AND WIN.
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yycflyguy
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Re: Strike vote

Post by yycflyguy »

DP
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hurtin'albertan
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Re: Strike vote

Post by hurtin'albertan »

Demeter wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:33 am
Perhaps give them a call yourself! Apology accepted :goodman:
No Apologies from me here, lady. But I think you owe the two pilots you are calling out an apology. I and many others have seen nothing but 100% loyalty to WestJet pilots from these two. Whether they have applied at ac or not doesn't matter one iota. I judge them based on how they act in the interest of our pilot group and all I've seen from them so far is a selfless attempt to make things better for all wj pilots, which I assume includes you since you take such an interest in wj pilot business.

Your attempt to smear their character smells of desperation and small-mindedness, and only says something about yous, or your lack of.
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yyc757
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Re: Strike vote

Post by yyc757 »

Hey Bede. ..

See nothing but crickets. Pathetic.



Come on weed pro. Answer Bede's question.
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WeedPro2000
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Re: Strike vote

Post by WeedPro2000 »

I’m having a great time with my phone lol. Since posting my number above, I have received 4 phone calls from salesman responding to my web request to have my BMW328 transported from Beverly Hills to Los Angeles and have received 22 separate calls from spoofed caller ID’s. I don’t think it’s a coincidence...

It’s harrassment, and it’s a crime, but it’s difficult, unless you’re the NSA to trace the calls.

Live well, Jungs!
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Flyingsquirrelsuck
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Flyingsquirrelsuck »

WeedPro2000 wrote: Wed May 02, 2018 6:53 am I’m having a great time with my phone lol. Since posting my number above, I have received 4 phone calls from salesman responding to my web request to have my BMW328 transported from Beverly Hills to Los Angeles and have received 22 separate calls from spoofed caller ID’s. I don’t think it’s a coincidence...

It’s harrassment, and it’s a crime, but it’s difficult, unless you’re the NSA to trace the calls.

Live well, Jungs!
He never answered the tuff questions. Just changes the subject.

Hey John, did you have anything to do with “Skull Gate”?
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Bede
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Bede »

yyc757 wrote: Wed May 02, 2018 5:45 am Hey Bede. ..

See nothing but crickets. Pathetic.



Come on weed pro. Answer Bede's question.
Yeah exactly. Everyone loves talking big but when pressed, they demure.

Contrary to popular belief, guys like Weedpro and Demeter aren't all about themselves- they're against their colleagues. Low ball offers have been around even during the wjpa days. (Remember the company wanted 767 to be flown at 737 rates). They benefit from other people demanding better yet refuse to acknowledge that their T4 is the result of tough negotiation by their colleagues (ALPA AND WJPA) rather than the benevolence of the company.

When pressed, the cognitive dissonce becomes overwhelming.

Eventually, our stand will result in everyone getting way more than the company is offering. At that point they will continue to blame their colleagues all while collecting better wages.
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RidersRule
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Re: Strike vote

Post by RidersRule »

yyc757 wrote: Wed May 02, 2018 5:45 am Hey Bede. ..

See nothing but crickets. Pathetic.



Come on weed pro. Answer Bede's question.
Anyone(WeedPro)...Anyone(WeedPro)...anyone(WeedPro)

Bueller(JS)....Beuller(JS).....Beuller (JS)...
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Bede »

Bede wrote: Wed May 02, 2018 11:37 am
yyc757 wrote: Wed May 02, 2018 5:45 am Hey Bede. ..

See nothing but crickets. Pathetic.



Come on weed pro. Answer Bede's question.
Yeah exactly. Everyone loves talking big but when pressed, they demure.

Contrary to popular belief, guys like Weedpro and Demeter aren't all about themselves- they're against their colleagues. Low ball offers have been around even during the wjpa days. (Remember the company wanted 767 to be flown at 737 rates). They benefit from other people demanding better yet refuse to acknowledge that their T4 is the result of tough negotiation by their colleagues (ALPA AND WJPA) rather than the benevolence of the company.

When pressed, the cognitive dissonce becomes overwhelming.

Eventually, our stand will result in everyone getting way more than the company is offering. At that point they will continue to blame their colleagues all while collecting better wages. When we get a better contract will they accept the new contract or on principle, be willing to work for what the company offered? Let's be honest, if we didn't have a union (or even a WJPA for that matter), we'd be making what the company is offering right now. 2017 block hours, 19 days, no options, 10% ESP. If that's OK with you, fine, don't pay your dues, trash your representatives, and be willing to work for what the company is offering you. If you want better, you don't need to vocally support your union, but at the very least, don't make life more difficult for those of us trying to better for ALL of us.
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Crash_PadYYC
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Crash_PadYYC »

WeedPro2000 wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:11 am It's a beautiful spring day here in Alliston, finally! I spent the morning reading Winter Der Welt, the german language translation of a Ken Follet novel. I'm really enjoying reading it. I don't understand every word, but I get most of what he's writing. It's the second of a trilogy that details the relationships of the members of German, Russian, British, and American families in the period from 1933 leading into the second world war. With the perspective of someone who has never served his country, I can still appreciate the sacrifices made by those who have served. Reading of the loss of life and the suffering of millions, it puts things into perspective. I'm a privileged man.

In spite of that awareness, I have grown accustomed to my job and the people I meet as a result of it. I appreciate the creature comforts I have and the lifestyle that my job has afforded me. I like driving to work. I know that no matter what, I'll like interacting with our guests, as briefly as I do as a pilot. This is a great company and a great job. I'd hate to lose it.

After I lost the last airline job I had, I stayed up late in the night. I was in the process of moving into a new apartment in The Beaches in Toronto. The future was bright. I was looking forward to life in downtown (close anyway) T.O. It was going to be awesome. I can't remember where exactly I was when I wrote the following letter to myself, but it was late. I might have been at Joe's pIace in Mississauga. He was a pilot at Canada 3000 like myself, now at Sunwing. Fun guy. Italian. Confident. Great times. Anyway, think I had cried a little that night. Not for fear, just for the loss. C3 was a great company. Just didn't make a lot of money.

The following was finished late in the night. That time of the night when you shouldn't send letters to ex-girlfriends and such. The reason I'm reprinting here is because the emotions that are brought up by the possibility of an act so violent as a strike, remind me of those times. When I say violence, I mean violence against the corporation, against the employees there. A strike is an attack. A strike vote is not just a part of negotiation, it's a declaration that a group is prepared to do whatever it takes to injure the economic fortunes of all stake holders and customers of the company. I could never do that to this company. Not after what they've done for me.

This period in WJ's history reminds me of the scorpion in that story that asks the horse for a ride across the river. The horse says but you'll just sting me and kill me. The scorpion says no, I won't do that because it will just kill us both. Of course, halfway across the scorpion does just that, it stings the horse. As they both start sinking in the water, the horse says, why did you do that? The scorpion says, I couldn't help it, it's in my nature.

And so it is with unions, they can't help causing damage to the stakeholders of the organism that provides economic life to its employees, an investment return to the shareholders, and a valued service to its customers. Similarly, I can't do anything but fight against what unions represent and what they do. I'm loyal 100% to my employer.

Anyhow, I hope we all respect each other. We might not like what we individually do outside of the flight deck and out of the uniform, but that is life. Diversity.

In diversity,

John
STICK A FORK IN ME COS I'M DONE (from November 2001)


it's pretty late. after 3:00 am. Stone cold sober. i think i now realize that i've been in denial about our situation. Rationally i thought our chances were low. But emotionally i was in left field, pretty far out.

i'm feeling something akin to being a jilted lover. I've been spurned. Tossed away with yesterday's garbage without time to plead my case and convince her to stay. Five years ago i made the decision to get involved with another lover whose name was air atlantic.Thats after years of cheap dates, tawdry affairs that got me nowhere, but were fun. This new relationship was definitely better. Wasn't even jealous of the sexier outfit across the tarmac. I held off falling in love, however. It took some time. Then i got cosy. Then comfortable. Got used to working with the people, knowing my job, crapping on management. The drill. Thought it time to settle down. Buy house. Two car garage. Join dart league. Gots me a pension and medical coverage to boot. Then we started squabbling. The relationship went backwards for a while. Then appeared to stabilize. Maybe outsiders saw it coming. I didn't. She dumped me. Told me to get out of the house. So I took my real life GF on a road trip that went from YHZ to YUL.


My new lover, ROYAL, was a boost to my career. The 310 was good. Big. Took me far away. Was taught new techniques and positions, realized that i had much to learn. Cool. Drank beer in new locales and with new friends. No matter what time you arrived somewhere, after a couple of hours of sleep, it became friday night. Even got to practice my rusty french, with some success.

But i've been jilted before. I hope she'll understand if i don't go head over heels right away. I mean, i liked her enough. I think she had some warts, but lets call that character. But after eight months, she wants a break. Temporary she says. I don't trust her. I don't need a two month break. I've been here before, so i look around, find someone. She sure dresses well...

Where do i start? She's got pride. No doubt she's got pride. She's smart, sexy, and if you don't mind, pretty good in the sack. Her daddy ain't rich but that's cool. She used to be on the other team. Now i'm on her team. I'll have to move again to be near her, but that's my way in any case.

Sure hope i can fit in. Must be a chip on my shoulder. I think i might be a little standoffish. My previous GF's were just as good, i say. But i want her to like me, and i don't want to let on that i like her. Then i hear about a new girl back home in YHZ, wonder should i ditch this one and head east? No, i get rid of my real life GF instead and concentrate on my new life here, in TO.

Start liking the big city. Things are going great. Expansion. More planes, might see left seat for first time since light twins. I figger I got me a keeper. Jed, get yer sunday clothes, cos were off to the preacher.

You want a what? With my Ex???? Are you sick???? Maybe you don't realize the possible consequences... Awright, i'm in. Menage-a-trois it is. Let's just do it and get on with things.

I should have known she'd like it. Wants to try another one with a downeaster. Fair enough. But this is turning into one hell of an orgy. I'm uneasy, but i warm to the idea through creative visualization. We don't want a repeat of a well known shotgun marriage across town. If we can bring together some east coasters, some french guys, some city slickers, and some tree huggers and make it work, we'll have something really big.

Hmmm, economy slows. That marriage across town has problems. Lots and lots of counselling. Weekend retreats. Still fighting, and not just behind closed doors. Whacks on head with frying pans, real frying pans, not that nonstick eurotrash stuff.

Looks like they'll stay together, for the kids they say. Hope it works. Just glad we're not them. We're okay. My broker's a bit pissed but my accountant says we're in great shape. I trust.

Ah jesus, the inlaws are fighting with my folks. Apparently can't stand each other. Saw that coming.
Lawsuits. Name the blame game. I'm thinking separate beds for awhile, but no lets go on.

Was it Don Henley who said, "In a new york minute...everything can change". Yah, but we're okay aren't we? Well, you kept the receipts, right? How about a pre-nup? Okay. That's fine, lets just go visit that nice man at the bank and i'm sure we'll sort this out.

The bank guy's coming through. Hooray! Nervous laughter. Thing's will pick up in the spring, you watch.

Move to the Beaches district of TO. Rent's higher but its a happenin scene. I'll pick up a bed in a week or so, next paycheck. Tuesday. Sleeping on hardwood floor. Woke up early cos i'm sleeping on hardwood floor. Put on Howard Stern on the radio at 6:00 am. News bulletin at commercial break. Severing the relationship? Conflicting emotions. Watching motherinlaw go over cliff in new cadillac.

This will help right? I guess we're dreaming for the old days. You know, everybody happy. Sorry about that guys, but ya gotta go. So I go watch he-who-must-be-obeyed try to bully an independent government agency. I watch former colleagues and current friends want to tear him another asshole. I understand. But they say we have to , what do i know? I'll gain back those hundred numbers that date of hire gave me. But its still rude.

Tuesday. 6:00 pm. Fresh from Board of Directors meeting. Back to resume testimony. "I am hereby authorized by the board of directors to inform the CIRB that the BoD has resolved that unless you give me what i want, i'm taking my ball and going home." Oh yeah, instead of going to work for the last two months i've been playing Video Lottery Terminals and, all our savings are gone, credit cars are maxed, and i've popped my giggling pin.


Floored. Hurt. Scared. Pissed off. Why didn't you say something sooner? I could have helped. Meanwhile, mr man himself, empire building rich alberta dude is off on vacation. Rumours changing. Unions negotiating. Blame CUPE. The inevitable downward spiral. The emperor's new clothes...

It's now monday morning after 4:00 am. This letter has helped. I think i can sleep. unemployed. former airline pilot. credit cards maxed. still sleeping on floor. stiff upper lip right? honest that wasn't a tear at Arizona's the other night. If it was, it's because i was drunk...

So my lady is leaving me. "She's gone, 'by, she's gone". She let me down. Let me love her and sleep beside her, and leaves a lot of us wondering what might have been. Maybe the only way to truly fall in love is to let your guard down. Believe the dream. Smile on the way to work. Happy just to be there.


I'm not sure i'll love again. I hope so. Right now i look for answers that are not there because i don't have the whole picture. Maybe someday i'll know why she left me. If i do date agin in this industry, i'll try to be distant. Hands off. Sure you will. I give it six months and you'll be drinking the koolaid. Otherwise you just become one of those jaded old farts we call airline Captains. (No disrespect.)

She was sexy though, wasn't she...

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion ... cle764171/
The crumbling of Canada 3000
PUBLISHED NOVEMBER 10, 2001
UPDATED APRIL 12, 2018
It is bad enough to see an important company go bankrupt, but even worse to see it fail in the chaotic way that Canada 3000 collapsed late Thursday night.

All day Thursday, the airline continued to take new ticket bookings, saying it would restructure its operations and carry on. It appeared in court on Thursday afternoon to seek protection from creditors while it restructured, and senior officials laid out a long-term business plan for the court. "We're confident of our future prospects," spokeswoman Angela Saclamacis said Thursday.

Just hours later, Canada 3000 issued a brief press release saying it was shutting down all operations immediately. Thousands of stranded passengers were offered no help. Stunned employees, who had been reassured earlier in the day that all would end well, were left dangling -- although many heroically showed up for work yesterday morning, knowing they might not be paid.

Most bewildering of all, Canada 3000 offered no explanation for its unexpected change of heart, feeling, apparently, that it owed not even this small courtesy to the travellers and employees whose lives were affected.

It is too late now to usefully ask why Canada 3000 didn't begin a month ago to cut costs and lay off staff. It perhaps doesn't matter why Canada 3000 sought court protection on Thursday afternoon, rather than simply filing for bankruptcy if collapse was so imminent. All that is clear is that the airline ran out of room to manoeuvre at a terrible moment, when it was still trying to talk to the federal government about loan guarantees and to unions about concessions.

Yesterday, federal Transport Minister David Collenette said rescue talks were under way, and a deal to save the airline was still possible. Surely this is a long shot. Already, creditors are trying to seize assets, while passengers are more than spooked about booking a holiday ticket on a shaky airline.

What's more important now is to see a new plan from Ottawa for the long-term future of Canada's airline industry.

Canada has less airline competition than ever, with most new competitors -- CanJet, Royal, Canada 3000 and Roots Air -- disappearing this year. The only carriers still offering scheduled service (as opposed to chartered flights) are Air Canada and WestJet, and WestJet does not offer national coverage.

This is the time to repeat the call for new foreign-ownership rules to bring more sources of airline service to Canadians. Earlier this year, federal Competition Commissioner Konrad von Finckenstein proposed that Ottawa increase competition in airlines by allowing foreign investment above the current 25 per cent limit. His words should finally be heeded.

Canada should allow foreign airlines to own 100 per cent of a domestic airline, as long as it is based in Canada and operating only domestically. That would allow major U.S. airlines to set up Canadian subsidiaries, or to invest in existing Canadian airlines.

The airline industry is in crisis, and federal efforts to manage a system of controlled monopoly have been a disaster. It is time for the government to allow a fair shot to anyone brave enough to attempt a Canadian airline. Foreign ownership is immensely preferable to the industry's collapse.
John, you understand that a great deal of flight attendants call you Germanwings and refuse to fly with you, right? Your social media/forum posts paint you as being quite unstable.

I’ve worked with you many times with no issue, but you have to realize how you are perceived and it is scary.

CPYYC
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Demeter
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Demeter »

Flyingsquirrelsuck wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:10 pm
Demeter wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:55 pm
Bede wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:41 pm

Can you please elaborate on some of these "big promises"? From my recollection the MEC repeatidly said that they weren't making any promises.

Also I'm not sure what arbitrator you're talking about. We're not, nor have ever been in arbitration.
all the promises made during the drive by the OC members Just about everything brought up at the meetings is opposite of the flowers and rainbows promised and the arbitrator is referencing where this is headed
And what have you done for the pilot group? Anything positive? Only complain but never volunteer any time to fixing the problem.

Selfish and clueless
:smt008
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