Exit Polls Showing Over 90% Strike Mandate Support

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Canadianjetpilot
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Exit Polls Showing Over 90% Strike Mandate Support

Post by Canadianjetpilot » Tue May 01, 2018 11:05 am

Recent Exit Polls Showing over 93% support by Westjet pilots for the strike mandate.

This is indeed a very high level of support and resolve by the pilot group.

It will be interesting to see if it changes WJA approach to the negotiations.
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Re: Exit Polls Showing Over 90% Strike Mandate Support

Post by Victory » Tue May 01, 2018 11:25 am

Poll where you ask people to their face if you will be a scab or not and 93% say no.
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Re: Exit Polls Showing Over 90% Strike Mandate Support

Post by Conflicting Traffic » Tue May 01, 2018 12:31 pm

Victory wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 11:25 am
Poll where you ask people to their face if you will be a scab or not and 93% say no.
You're aware of course that voting against a strike does not make one a scab.
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Re: Exit Polls Showing Over 90% Strike Mandate Support

Post by Go Guns » Tue May 01, 2018 12:44 pm

How was this information obtained? Cause nobody has asked me.
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Re: Exit Polls Showing Over 90% Strike Mandate Support

Post by digits_ » Tue May 01, 2018 3:05 pm

Victory wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 11:25 am
Poll where you ask people to their face if you will be a scab or not and 93% say no.
Improper use of words makes them become meaningless.
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Re: Exit Polls Showing Over 90% Strike Mandate Support

Post by Jimmy2 » Tue May 01, 2018 3:18 pm

But Swoop pilots are scabs. You guys crack me up.
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Re: Exit Polls Showing Over 90% Strike Mandate Support

Post by WeedPro2000 » Wed May 02, 2018 7:36 am

Has anyone polled the WJ Board of Directors to see how much support there is for a lockout?

Or polled Justin Trudeau’s cabinet to see how much support there is for back to work legislation and an imposed contract?
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Re: Exit Polls Showing Over 90% Strike Mandate Support

Post by Flyingsquirrelsuck » Wed May 02, 2018 7:41 am

WeedPro2000 wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 7:36 am
Has anyone polled the WJ Board of Directors to see how much support there is for a lockout?

Or polled Justin Trudeau’s cabinet to see how much support there is for back to work legislation and an imposed contract?
Maybe if the BOD was more inhaled with the “powered by employee” directive there might not be a unionized employee group at Westjet.

Maybe there needs to be a personal change at the BOD table as well.

How is our stock doing? 2 bucks below AC. Is that the pilots fault as well John
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Re: Exit Polls Showing Over 90% Strike Mandate Support

Post by Dizzy D » Wed May 02, 2018 7:48 am

WeedPro2000 wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 7:36 am
Has anyone polled the WJ Board of Directors to see how much support there is for a lockout?

Or polled Justin Trudeau’s cabinet to see how much support there is for back to work legislation and an imposed contract?
Considering how the liberal government has changed the legislation in favour of the workforce, I don’t believe you will see them sending WJ pilots back to work. When AC pilots were sent back to work years ago, it was under conservative government and was an entirely different set of circumstances.
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Re: Exit Polls Showing Over 90% Strike Mandate Support

Post by Canadianjetpilot » Sat May 05, 2018 10:45 am

Update to polling now showing a slight bump up to 94%.

Clearly showing the solidarity within the WJ pilot group and certainly a clear message for the executives.
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Re: Exit Polls Showing Over 90% Strike Mandate Support

Post by 200Above » Sat May 05, 2018 7:56 pm

I’m a little confused. Where is/was this exit poll? Did I miss something?

I thought you were referring to previous survey results and not the current ballot.

That’s great news, if exit polls can be trusted. Think no further than the US election.

Hope this holds up.
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Re: Exit Polls Showing Over 90% Strike Mandate Support

Post by montado » Sat May 05, 2018 10:14 pm

Flyingsquirrelsuck wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 7:41 am
WeedPro2000 wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 7:36 am
Has anyone polled the WJ Board of Directors to see how much support there is for a lockout?

Or polled Justin Trudeau’s cabinet to see how much support there is for back to work legislation and an imposed contract?
Maybe if the BOD was more inhaled with the “powered by employee” directive there might not be a unionized employee group at Westjet.

Maybe there needs to be a personal change at the BOD table as well.

How is our stock doing? 2 bucks below AC. Is that the pilots fault as well John
Just have to throw this out there, comparing two companies stock prices means absolutely nothing. Maybe you mean the share price x the outstanding shares (market cap). and yes it has not been so hot lately but AC and CHR have all had their pull backs and runs this year. Chorus was up at 9.60's for a while and hit well below 8 this past week.
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Re: Exit Polls Showing Over 90% Strike Mandate Support

Post by sportingrifle » Sun May 06, 2018 8:48 am

Having lived thru 3 pilots strikes in my career, one of which I voted for, a few thoughts for my friends at WJ.

If the company isn't entering into "meaningful" bargaining, then you get nowhere without a strike vote. How much leverage the strike vote gives your negotiators varies with circumstances. A 90% + vote is very powerful, less than 65% really hurts you. If you are working for a company that is struggling, or you are making wild demands that the company cannot meet, then you are setting yourself up to fail, now or later. But if the company is making demands that the pilots can't meet, like ending their career progression, then the company is setting itself up to fail - now or later.

Neither side wants a strike and it is amazing how much progress is made once a strike is announced. Kinda like settling lawsuits on courthouse steps. But if a strike occurs, the power balance shifts dramatically in favor of the pilots. Firstly, due to the fixed costs of running the airline -primarily the aircraft leasing costs - the company bleeds way faster than the pilots. I can live without a paycheck for a month or two - my airline can't. And while it is the last thing i would ever want, in this job market i could get another one fairly easily. The airline's existence is measured in weeks at best. The BOD simply will not allow the investors capital to evaporate and at some point, management get told to end it. Management also feels pressure that they didn't before. When they were hard ass bargaining, they were seen as controlling costs and making the company more profitable. As I strike drags on, they start to be seen as the problem. If they were to actually cease negotiating and initiate a lockout, even more so. In all the strikes that I was involved with, there were big management turnovers after the strike was over.

Hopefully, WJ management will see that diminishing pilots long term career expectations to chase the most marginally profitable market segment is pretty short term thinking. From an outsider, mutually beneficial solutions that meet both sides needs are certainly attainable. Everybody just has to hit the reset button and start again. But my one word of advice is that heaven forbid, if you do go on strike, stay on strike until you get everything you want. Pilots have a habit of ending strikes just days in to them with many issues still unresolved. After about a week to 10 days in, management are getting really fearful for their jobs and mortgages and that is the point you can negotiate like you could never have dreamed of before the strike.

I suspect with the new CEO, a good strike mandate, and some creative thinking, the reset button will get pushed. The guys at Big Red are really wishing you all the best in this important crossroads in your careers.

sportingrifle
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Re: Exit Polls Showing Over 90% Strike Mandate Support

Post by RidersRule » Sun May 06, 2018 9:22 am

Great post.
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Re: Exit Polls Showing Over 90% Strike Mandate Support

Post by RVR6000 » Sun May 06, 2018 9:46 am

ACs stock was at 87cents, and the company was on the brink of bankruptcy when Raitt forced back to work. The circumstances are completely different here, you’re going in with a company that has been profitable since it’s existance.

It’s due to time to show respect to the pilot group that has made Westjet what it is today.
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Re: Exit Polls Showing Over 90% Strike Mandate Support

Post by squawk » Sun May 06, 2018 10:51 am

RidersRule wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 9:22 am
Great post.
Don’t think for a second that AC pilots are not loving WJ pilot turmoil. Remember they had a rumour going around that they would join ALPA too? What happened to that game plan? Must have been more of a playbook than a gameplan. They would love nothing more than to see WJ burn to the ground. It’s the old saying “ don’t tell anybody your problems , because half don’t care and the other half are glad you have them.”
Never underestimate the high level of schadenfreude here!
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Re: Exit Polls Showing Over 90% Strike Mandate Support

Post by RidersRule » Sun May 06, 2018 11:12 am

If out of that whole post u only picked out one line, maybe read it again.

He makes some great points that are valid.
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Re: Exit Polls Showing Over 90% Strike Mandate Support

Post by RVR6000 » Sun May 06, 2018 11:25 am

squawk wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 10:51 am
RidersRule wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 9:22 am
Great post.
Don’t think for a second that AC pilots are not loving WJ pilot turmoil. Remember they had a rumour going around that they would join ALPA too? What happened to that game plan? Must have been more of a playbook than a gameplan. They would love nothing more than to see WJ burn to the ground. It’s the old saying “ don’t tell anybody your problems , because half don’t care and the other half are glad you have them.”
Never underestimate the high level of schadenfreude here!
Nonsense, we simply don’t want to see the degradation of this profession further. Our 737 rates are roughly $205-220/hr, how do we negotiate come 2024 when you have swoop operating at $110/hr.

As per the ALPA efforts the group is still divided, tides are changing with a new MEC head.
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Re: Exit Polls Showing Over 90% Strike Mandate Support

Post by Maurice » Sun May 06, 2018 3:37 pm

sportingrifle wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 8:48 am
Having lived thru 3 pilots strikes in my career, one of which I voted for, a few thoughts for my friends at WJ.

If the company isn't entering into "meaningful" bargaining, then you get nowhere without a strike vote. How much leverage the strike vote gives your negotiators varies with circumstances. A 90% + vote is very powerful, less than 65% really hurts you. If you are working for a company that is struggling, or you are making wild demands that the company cannot meet, then you are setting yourself up to fail, now or later. But if the company is making demands that the pilots can't meet, like ending their career progression, then the company is setting itself up to fail - now or later.

Neither side wants a strike and it is amazing how much progress is made once a strike is announced. Kinda like settling lawsuits on courthouse steps. But if a strike occurs, the power balance shifts dramatically in favor of the pilots. Firstly, due to the fixed costs of running the airline -primarily the aircraft leasing costs - the company bleeds way faster than the pilots. I can live without a paycheck for a month or two - my airline can't. And while it is the last thing i would ever want, in this job market i could get another one fairly easily. The airline's existence is measured in weeks at best. The BOD simply will not allow the investors capital to evaporate and at some point, management get told to end it. Management also feels pressure that they didn't before. When they were hard ass bargaining, they were seen as controlling costs and making the company more profitable. As I strike drags on, they start to be seen as the problem. If they were to actually cease negotiating and initiate a lockout, even more so. In all the strikes that I was involved with, there were big management turnovers after the strike was over.

Hopefully, WJ management will see that diminishing pilots long term career expectations to chase the most marginally profitable market segment is pretty short term thinking. From an outsider, mutually beneficial solutions that meet both sides needs are certainly attainable. Everybody just has to hit the reset button and start again. But my one word of advice is that heaven forbid, if you do go on strike, stay on strike until you get everything you want. Pilots have a habit of ending strikes just days in to them with many issues still unresolved. After about a week to 10 days in, management are getting really fearful for their jobs and mortgages and that is the point you can negotiate like you could never have dreamed of before the strike.

I suspect with the new CEO, a good strike mandate, and some creative thinking, the reset button will get pushed. The guys at Big Red are really wishing you all the best in this important crossroads in your careers.

sportingrifle
I’m neither a pilot or management, just collateral damage in this mess, but I wanted to make sure I understand the post directed towards sportingrifle’s ‘friends’ at WestJet.

First, without a strong strike mandate you have no power. Second, to really get some power, you need to strike, but don’t worry, you can live without a paycheck for a while. And if things go south you can always get a job somewhere else, there are lots of jobs out there and this industry really values pilot experience over tenure. And finally, if you do strike you need to “stay on strike until you get everything you want”. Don’t worry, management (who will still be getting paid) will be fearful for their mortgages, unlike you who can live without pay for a month or two. They may even lose their jobs and be forced to take their transferable skills to another industry that will most likely pay more since airlines generally underpay.

So please strike and strike for a long time. Your friends at Big Red are really wishing you all the best. Honest, no ulterior motives in these recommendations.
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Re: Exit Polls Showing Over 90% Strike Mandate Support

Post by mbav8r » Sun May 06, 2018 5:48 pm

Maurice wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 3:37 pm
[quote=sportingrifle post_id=<a href="tel:1038942">1038942</a> time=<a href="tel:1525621711">1525621711</a> user_id=6006]
Having lived thru 3 pilots strikes in my career, one of which I voted for, a few thoughts for my friends at WJ.

If the company isn't entering into "meaningful" bargaining, then you get nowhere without a strike vote. How much leverage the strike vote gives your negotiators varies with circumstances. A 90% + vote is very powerful, less than 65% really hurts you. If you are working for a company that is struggling, or you are making wild demands that the company cannot meet, then you are setting yourself up to fail, now or later. But if the company is making demands that the pilots can't meet, like ending their career progression, then the company is setting itself up to fail - now or later.

Neither side wants a strike and it is amazing how much progress is made once a strike is announced. Kinda like settling lawsuits on courthouse steps. But if a strike occurs, the power balance shifts dramatically in favor of the pilots. Firstly, due to the fixed costs of running the airline -primarily the aircraft leasing costs - the company bleeds way faster than the pilots. I can live without a paycheck for a month or two - my airline can't. And while it is the last thing i would ever want, in this job market i could get another one fairly easily. The airline's existence is measured in weeks at best. The BOD simply will not allow the investors capital to evaporate and at some point, management get told to end it. Management also feels pressure that they didn't before. When they were hard ass bargaining, they were seen as controlling costs and making the company more profitable. As I strike drags on, they start to be seen as the problem. If they were to actually cease negotiating and initiate a lockout, even more so. In all the strikes that I was involved with, there were big management turnovers after the strike was over.

Hopefully, WJ management will see that diminishing pilots long term career expectations to chase the most marginally profitable market segment is pretty short term thinking. From an outsider, mutually beneficial solutions that meet both sides needs are certainly attainable. Everybody just has to hit the reset button and start again. But my one word of advice is that heaven forbid, if you do go on strike, stay on strike until you get everything you want. Pilots have a habit of ending strikes just days in to them with many issues still unresolved. After about a week to 10 days in, management are getting really fearful for their jobs and mortgages and that is the point you can negotiate like you could never have dreamed of before the strike.

I suspect with the new CEO, a good strike mandate, and some creative thinking, the reset button will get pushed. The guys at Big Red are really wishing you all the best in this important crossroads in your careers.

sportingrifle
I’m neither a pilot or management, just collateral damage in this mess, but I wanted to make sure I understand the post directed towards sportingrifle’s ‘friends’ at WestJet.

First, without a strong strike mandate you have no power. Second, to really get some power, you need to strike, but don’t worry, you can live without a paycheck for a while. And if things go south you can always get a job somewhere else, there are lots of jobs out there and this industry really values pilot experience over tenure. And finally, if you do strike you need to “stay on strike until you get everything you want”. Don’t worry, management (who will still be getting paid) will be fearful for their mortgages, unlike you who can live without pay for a month or two. They may even lose their jobs and be forced to take their transferable skills to another industry that will most likely pay more since airlines generally underpay.

So please strike and strike for a long time. Your friends at Big Red are really wishing you all the best. Honest, no ulterior motives in these recommendations.
[/quote]

Maurice,
I grew up in a mining town and my Dad was a miner, the above post by sportingrifle is great advice to any industry with the same events taking place. In fact, my Dad calculated during the last strike that I remember, after 4 weeks on strike he would need a 10 or 12 percent raise for the length of the contract to make back what he lost in wages. My numbers may be off because I was a teen but management was padding their pockets and wanted to workers bees to take concessions including a huge reduction in pension, sometimes you need to send a message that enough is enough.
For what it’s worth, there is always collateral damage regardless, do you think the pilots who are training for swoop right now gave a shit about collateral damage.
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Re: Exit Polls Showing Over 90% Strike Mandate Support

Post by squawk » Sun May 06, 2018 7:09 pm

I also grew up in a mining town. Heavily unionized town. My parents and grandparents worked for the company. I remember strikes and family’s suffering. These companies had big pockets and made large margins depending on the London metals exchange. Our industry has slim margins. Very slim margins. South of 10 percent. You can’t expect the other guy to blink or your own ability to ride out a strike until the cows come home. When the smoke clears, the cows and the home may very well be gone.
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Re: Exit Polls Showing Over 90% Strike Mandate Support

Post by aerobod » Sun May 06, 2018 7:51 pm

squawk wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 7:09 pm
I also grew up in a mining town. Heavily unionized town. My parents and grandparents worked for the company. I remember strikes and family’s suffering. These companies had big pockets and made large margins depending on the London metals exchange. Our industry has slim margins. Very slim margins. South of 10 percent. You can’t expect the other guy to blink or your own ability to ride out a strike until the cows come home. When the smoke clears, the cows and the home may very well be gone.
At the moment WestJet’s net equity from an un-encumbered asset, property and cash (minus booking revenue not flown) exceeds the company share valuation of CAD $2.6bn. If there is the possibility of lengthy industrial action that could significantly damage the company value, shareholders and/or the BOD could force a shareholder vote to dissolve the company, liquidate the assets and return the proceeds to the shareholders, while assets value still exceeds the current share value.
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Re: Exit Polls Showing Over 90% Strike Mandate Support

Post by Benwa » Sun May 06, 2018 9:31 pm

I'm willing to call that bluff
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Re: Exit Polls Showing Over 90% Strike Mandate Support

Post by aerobod » Sun May 06, 2018 9:51 pm

Benwa wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 9:31 pm
I'm willing to call that bluff
The only person who knows how likely that possibility is is CB.
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Re: Exit Polls Showing Over 90% Strike Mandate Support

Post by RVR6000 » Sun May 06, 2018 11:48 pm

Over measly pilot wages CB will liquidate the company, that’s a funny one.

How does Southwest who westjet is modelled after can afford to pay its pilot on par with the legacy carriers down south.
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