Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

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confusedalot
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

#101 Post by confusedalot » Thu May 24, 2018 1:53 am

I think that no one here has actually run a business. I haven't but my parent did run a small business. Not even close to well off or financially independent. It is nowhere near as easy as some make it sound, and on top of carrying operational overhead as some have mentioned, you also pay tax on the business earnings PLUS personal income tax.

Not so sure that the small time lawyer or doctor with his own practice is doing as well as advertised.
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

#102 Post by pigboat » Thu May 24, 2018 4:25 am

Some one asked Winston Churchill what he thought about socialism.

He said it was wonderful.. but the one problem is..... " that sooner or later you run out of other peoples money."

How about a flat tax! If one makes $50.000 they pay X dollars tax, if another makes $100.000, they pay twice as much tax as the one making $ 50,000. ETC, ETC. That is fair!

Alas, not going to happen.
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

#103 Post by TheStig » Thu May 24, 2018 6:55 am

There was a good editorial in the National Post about this a few months back. If, as an airline pilot in 2015, you earned $232,400 (or more) you were a 1% (congratulations!) you also paid 12.8% of all income taxes. So 1 in 100 Canadians picked up the tab for (almost) 12 others, the Captain is buying the crews' drinks whether they know it or not!

What I find interesting however is that in that same year if you made just over $90,000, a category which most Pilots fall into, you're in the top 10% of all income earners in Canada. This group paid 54.9% of all income taxes! I completely understand that the other 90% do pay taxes; property taxes, sales taxes, taxes on top of taxes, but on income alone which seems to be the focus on who is 'Rich' one in ten is more than paying the bill for the other half. Does 90K a year make you rich in YYZ, YUL, YVR or pretty much anywhere if you're supporting a family? Absolutely NOT!

http://business.financialpost.com/opini ... everything

However, I bring this up because the conversation always seems to revolve around the narrative of "Why do we (high income tax payers) let them (governments) tax us like this?!?!" The answer isn't because we're a socialist country, it's because we're a democratic country and the math isn't on our side. Historically, to form a majority government you only need 35-38% of the vote, the result has been our current system whereby 10-20% of the population is giving everyone else a heavily discounted (everyone pays some tax) ride. Currently our Governments can't think of free programs and hand outs fast enough these days to buy votes, because it keeps them in office. To most voters these are free giveaways and that would be true if the Governments did balance their budget.

Problem is that we live in a capitalist world, and we're not living sustainably. Economists will tell you exactly what Pigboat has, eventually the well runs dry. I agree with Flat Taxes, if someone who earns double pays double, how is that not paying their fair share? I believe in taking care of each other, social safety nets, building infrastructure, providing health care and education, but we also need to find a better way to encourage hard work to motivate people.
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

#104 Post by Mostly Harmless » Thu May 24, 2018 12:05 pm

There is even more to the story. I was reading a financial paper on how much per person it was going to cost us to bail out BBD to the tune of $1 billion. What I found interesting was the breakdown of the number of tax payers in Canada.

There are roughly 36,000,000 Canadians.
Of the total population, only some 27,000,000 are registered tax payers (there are age exempt, elderly, poor, etc)
Of that number, only 18,000,000 people in Canada actually pay income tax. Roughly half the population.

There was a lot of news stories in the US during their last election that half the people there did not pay any income taxes... it turns out that this is the same situation in Canada. So, you have half the population supporting the other half of the population and of that half, 10% are paying 50% of the tax load. Start doing that math. I do agree that there is a social contract to look after our own. However, it appears that the system may be broken and you will eventually make everyone impoverished through taxation. Okay, everyone except the politicians and the "captain's of industry." And by that I mean the top brass at large cap companies, not small businesses run by independent operators. Those guys never suffer.

Another interesting side note, the difference in income between being at the bottom edge of the 1% and being at the top of the 1% is actually greater than the difference between the bottom of the 1% and the bottom of the 99%.
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

#105 Post by Tacoma » Fri May 25, 2018 8:48 pm

FICU wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 10:47 am
FL020 wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 5:05 am
Unfortunately for tbaylx...there is no lec/mec where was was JUST employed.............. :rolleyes:
TSB to Swoop???

Add formerly a swoop trainee to his FB resume. It’s filling up!
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

#106 Post by tbaylx » Sat May 26, 2018 5:28 am

Tacoma wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 8:48 pm
FICU wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 10:47 am
FL020 wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 5:05 am
Unfortunately for tbaylx...there is no lec/mec where was was JUST employed.............. :rolleyes:
TSB to Swoop???

Add formerly a swoop trainee to his FB resume. It’s filling up!
Thanks Tacoma, but the reports of OTS pilot’s demise have been greatly exaggerated. Looking forward to working with the other more professional pilots at WJ/Encore.
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

#107 Post by moe » Sat May 26, 2018 6:04 am

You knew the moral line you were crossing when you applied, don’t expect to be accepted with open arms.
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

#108 Post by tbaylx » Sat May 26, 2018 6:30 am

moe wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 6:04 am
You knew the moral line you were crossing when you applied, don’t expect to be accepted with open arms.
Let’s not confuse a broken aviation seniority system that ties pilots to their airline with morals. As for being welcomed or not we’re happy to welcome you guys to “our” airline if you’d like to come over at whatever terms you’ve managed to negotiate. If that’s reciprocal or not is of no concern to me personally.
Best of luck with your remaining negotiations.
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

#109 Post by Jumbo744 » Sat May 26, 2018 6:53 am

moe wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 6:04 am
You knew the moral line you were crossing when you applied, don’t expect to be accepted with open arms.
you are talking about moral when it comes to business? what are you? a child or simply delusional?
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

#110 Post by mbav8r » Sat May 26, 2018 7:06 am

tbaylx wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 6:30 am
moe wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 6:04 am
You knew the moral line you were crossing when you applied, don’t expect to be accepted with open arms.
Let’s not confuse a broken aviation seniority system that ties pilots to their airline with morals. As for being welcomed or not we’re happy to welcome you guys to “our” airline if you’d like to come over at whatever terms you’ve managed to negotiate. If that’s reciprocal or not is of no concern to me personally.
Best of luck with your remaining negotiations.
Typical response from a scumbag, “our” airline, you went to work for a company that was circumventing scoped work and now it’s your airline! Bottom of the Encore list would be too good for you, I hope I’m not disappointed with your fate, anxiously awaiting the details.
BTW, I seriously doubt anything you may have been told by your management at this point will not be what actually happens, good luck with sleeping while you await your fate.
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

#111 Post by tbaylx » Sat May 26, 2018 7:14 am

mbav8r wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 7:06 am
tbaylx wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 6:30 am
moe wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 6:04 am
You knew the moral line you were crossing when you applied, don’t expect to be accepted with open arms.
Let’s not confuse a broken aviation seniority system that ties pilots to their airline with morals. As for being welcomed or not we’re happy to welcome you guys to “our” airline if you’d like to come over at whatever terms you’ve managed to negotiate. If that’s reciprocal or not is of no concern to me personally.
Best of luck with your remaining negotiations.
Typical response from a scumbag, “our” airline, you went to work for a company that was circumventing scoped work and now it’s your airline! Bottom of the Encore list would be too good for you, I hope I’m not disappointed with your fate, anxiously awaiting the details.
BTW, I seriously doubt anything you may have been told by your management at this point will not be what actually happens, good luck with sleeping while you await your fate.
Thankfully I know enough pilots at WJ to know your personality is not representative of the group.
The “our” comment was tongue in cheek as swoop flying has been called “our flying” by WJ pilots throughout this process. Come drop by YHM late June in our crew room and introduce yourself to us, we’re going to be a bit busy launching an airline to come on here and listen to your type.
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

#112 Post by mbav8r » Sat May 26, 2018 7:42 am

M
tbaylx wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 7:14 am
[quote=mbav8r post_id=<a href="tel:1040870">1040870</a> time=<a href="tel:1527343606">1527343606</a> user_id=8159]
[quote=tbaylx post_id=<a href="tel:1040864">1040864</a> time=<a href="tel:1527341448">1527341448</a> user_id=1736]
[quote=moe post_id=<a href="tel:1040860">1040860</a> time=<a href="tel:1527339854">1527339854</a> user_id=489]
You knew the moral line you were crossing when you applied, don’t expect to be accepted with open arms.
Let’s not confuse a broken aviation seniority system that ties pilots to their airline with morals. As for being welcomed or not we’re happy to welcome you guys to “our” airline if you’d like to come over at whatever terms you’ve managed to negotiate. If that’s reciprocal or not is of no concern to me personally.
Best of luck with your remaining negotiations.
[/quote]
Typical response from a scumbag, “our” airline, you went to work for a company that was circumventing scoped work and now it’s your airline! Bottom of the Encore list would be too good for you, I hope I’m not disappointed with your fate, anxiously awaiting the details.
BTW, I seriously doubt anything you may have been told by your management at this point will not be what actually happens, good luck with sleeping while you await your fate.
[/quote]

Thankfully I know enough pilots at WJ to know your personality is not representative of the group.
The “our” comment was tongue in cheek as swoop flying has been called “our flying” by WJ pilots throughout this process. Come drop by YHM late June in our crew room and introduce yourself to us, we’re going to be a bit busy launching an airline to come on here and listen to your type.
[/quote]
I doubt you’ll find the warm reception you think, 91% voted to strike because of “your” airline. This was the line in the sand and the pilots you know at WJ who were screwed over by you and your kind will not be a friendly face in the crewroom.
As for me, you can be thankful I’m not a WJ pilot, I am however a Jazz pilot who watched pilots like you go work for ScabRegional and then 10(rumoured) of them do the same thing at Swoop, real standup kind of people who are willing to screw others for their own personal gain.
Again BOTL at Encore is far more generous than I would be, thinking about your fate gives some solace as I get to imagine you getting your due. Maybe I’ll be disappointed but you know, here’s hoping!
P.S. your tongue in cheek comment, you’re not so completely idiotic to not realize it’s antagonizing to make comments like that, or are you?
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Last edited by mbav8r on Sat May 26, 2018 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

#113 Post by RidersRule » Sat May 26, 2018 7:47 am

Yeah you are not getting the correct information there bud. You might want to start looking for another job.

The one thing that has been confirmed is that the Swoop flying will be done by WestJet pilots on the WestJet list. Last time I checked, you’re not on the list. You haven’t even passed an interview with WestJet, and of course are still on probation. I normally would be upset to hear of a fellow aviator getting laid off. In this case, not so much.
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

#114 Post by mbav8r » Sat May 26, 2018 8:45 am

RidersRule wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 7:47 am
Yeah you are not getting the correct information there bud. You might want to start looking for another job.

The one thing that has been confirmed is that the Swoop flying will be done by WestJet pilots on the WestJet list. Last time I checked, you’re not on the list. You haven’t even passed an interview with WestJet, and of course are still on probation. I normally would be upset to hear of a fellow aviator getting laid off. In this case, not so much.
Good to hear, hey tbaylx, you hear that? Life’s about choices and living with the consequences, good luck on that job search, I’m sure you’ll find a friendly face in the crew room of another bottom feeding airline you seem drawn to.
I’m sure ALPA represented airlines or ACPA will have access to a list of the non desirable names you know to avoid hiring them, best of luck to ya(tongue in cheek)
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

#115 Post by tbaylx » Sat May 26, 2018 8:46 am

RidersRule wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 7:47 am
Yeah you are not getting the correct information there bud. You might want to start looking for another job.

The one thing that has been confirmed is that the Swoop flying will be done by WestJet pilots on the WestJet list. Last time I checked, you’re not on the list. You haven’t even passed an interview with WestJet, and of course are still on probation. I normally would be upset to hear of a fellow aviator getting laid off. In this case, not so much.
Guess we'll all just have to wait and see how it plays out.
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

#116 Post by Transonic » Sat May 26, 2018 9:21 am

I do imagine that Tbaylx and others were led to believe that ALPA had a fair opportunity to crew Swoop yet declined out of greed, not knowing the real negotiations were to begin a month after their hire. Of course once employed by Swoop, confirmation bias kicks in when reading avcanada posts or listening to WestJet pilots, it's human nature.

All the emotion will blow over and the majority of pilots will be happy to forget these dark days, so I think Tbaylx will be fine.

Out of curiosity, what has Swoop management said so far?

I think June and July flying can be easily covered with opentime.
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

#117 Post by Fanblade » Sat May 26, 2018 10:11 am

Transonic wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 9:21 am
I do imagine that Tbaylx and others were led to believe that ALPA had a fair opportunity to crew Swoop yet declined out of greed, not knowing the real negotiations were to begin a month after their hire.
I disagree. I think you would have needed to be living under a rock to not understand that:

1) Another group had laid a contractual claim to the work they were applying for.

2) ALPA published a hiring ban to warn pilots of the risk.

2) They might be used as a pawn in the resulting labor dispute.

3) That the dispute in question would be settled only one of three ways. Strike/lockout/Arbitration. In other words, the dispute would be settled by others, and they would have no input, or say, in the outcome or thier own fate.

They chose complete uncertainty and that uncertainty will remain over them as mediation and arbitration grinds on. Best case now is they are incorporated on to the WJ list DH with the same rights as every new WJ Pilot.

FWIW I hope the best case is the outcome. Turning guns inward is not good for unity in the long run. Unfortunately ALPA, one of the three parties at the table has no responsibility toward them or even the right to defend them even if they wanted to. Thier fate remains in the hands of WJSwoop management. I suspect management will make sure there is an employment offer to avoid litigation. ALPA WJ has no say in who WJ hires.
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

#118 Post by B757FO » Sat May 26, 2018 11:07 am

tbaylx wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 7:14 am
mbav8r wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 7:06 am
tbaylx wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 6:30 am


Let’s not confuse a broken aviation seniority system that ties pilots to their airline with morals. As for being welcomed or not we’re happy to welcome you guys to “our” airline if you’d like to come over at whatever terms you’ve managed to negotiate. If that’s reciprocal or not is of no concern to me personally.
Best of luck with your remaining negotiations.
Typical response from a scumbag, “our” airline, you went to work for a company that was circumventing scoped work and now it’s your airline! Bottom of the Encore list would be too good for you, I hope I’m not disappointed with your fate, anxiously awaiting the details.
BTW, I seriously doubt anything you may have been told by your management at this point will not be what actually happens, good luck with sleeping while you await your fate.
Thankfully I know enough pilots at WJ to know your personality is not representative of the group.
The “our” comment was tongue in cheek as swoop flying has been called “our flying” by WJ pilots throughout this process. Come drop by YHM late June in our crew room and introduce yourself to us, we’re going to be a bit busy launching an airline to come on here and listen to your type.
Oh man your way off here brother... although over the years mbav8r and I didn’t agree on all points I certainly would invite him over for a beer and discussion. More than I would say for your comments here tbaylx.

Whoever you say you know I can assure you they will not be accepting of you with open arms. I certainly won’t be. But feel free to say it’s your airline. Words means nothing and I and 2000 Westjet and encore pilots built it. You took the easy way around 2000 pilots. It’s funny your taking a position of power in your conversation like you’ve won something. Big difference here is you literally took a job away from me and everyone else here at our airline. So if you think you will have a warm welcome I assure you I’ll be leading the information highway of who you are for the world to see. You think you will be a swoop only flightdeck? Think again. Don’t worry I know we have a stellar pilot assistance team to help with your depression when you see just how rough it’s going to get for you guys here. But hey welcome to our airline bud. Feel free to write me an email dude anytime and we can meet in yhm anytime you like.
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

#119 Post by tbaylx » Sat May 26, 2018 12:25 pm

B757FO wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 11:07 am
tbaylx wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 7:14 am
mbav8r wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 7:06 am

Typical response from a scumbag, “our” airline, you went to work for a company that was circumventing scoped work and now it’s your airline! Bottom of the Encore list would be too good for you, I hope I’m not disappointed with your fate, anxiously awaiting the details.
BTW, I seriously doubt anything you may have been told by your management at this point will not be what actually happens, good luck with sleeping while you await your fate.
Thankfully I know enough pilots at WJ to know your personality is not representative of the group.
The “our” comment was tongue in cheek as swoop flying has been called “our flying” by WJ pilots throughout this process. Come drop by YHM late June in our crew room and introduce yourself to us, we’re going to be a bit busy launching an airline to come on here and listen to your type.
Oh man your way off here brother... although over the years mbav8r and I didn’t agree on all points I certainly would invite him over for a beer and discussion. More than I would say for your comments here tbaylx.

Whoever you say you know I can assure you they will not be accepting of you with open arms. I certainly won’t be. But feel free to say it’s your airline. Words means nothing and I and 2000 Westjet and encore pilots built it. You took the easy way around 2000 pilots. It’s funny your taking a position of power in your conversation like you’ve won something. Big difference here is you literally took a job away from me and everyone else here at our airline. So if you think you will have a warm welcome I assure you I’ll be leading the information highway of who you are for the world to see. You think you will be a swoop only flightdeck? Think again. Don’t worry I know we have a stellar pilot assistance team to help with your depression when you see just how rough it’s going to get for you guys here. But hey welcome to our airline bud. Feel free to write me an email dude anytime and we can meet in yhm anytime you like.
We took jobs for a startup airline that were offered to the street. I can appreciate you had an internal fight going on, but that was your business and still is.
Swoop is a startup, no took away jobs from you as they were newly created positions offered to the street for a new airline. Swoop was and continues to be a separate airline operated under a separate AOC, much like Encore. You can take that argument up with your MEC and management how you got there. Good to see that future positions will be able to be filled by the guys at Encore and WJ if they so desire.
I've been around longer than most, not hard to figure out who I am, it's not a great secret. Thanks for the welcome and the assistance offer, but I'm sure I'll be just fine operating with whomever I end up working with. Have yourself a good weekend :wink:
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

#120 Post by B757FO » Sat May 26, 2018 12:40 pm

tbaylx wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 12:25 pm
B757FO wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 11:07 am
tbaylx wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 7:14 am


Thankfully I know enough pilots at WJ to know your personality is not representative of the group.
The “our” comment was tongue in cheek as swoop flying has been called “our flying” by WJ pilots throughout this process. Come drop by YHM late June in our crew room and introduce yourself to us, we’re going to be a bit busy launching an airline to come on here and listen to your type.
Oh man your way off here brother... although over the years mbav8r and I didn’t agree on all points I certainly would invite him over for a beer and discussion. More than I would say for your comments here tbaylx.

Whoever you say you know I can assure you they will not be accepting of you with open arms. I certainly won’t be. But feel free to say it’s your airline. Words means nothing and I and 2000 Westjet and encore pilots built it. You took the easy way around 2000 pilots. It’s funny your taking a position of power in your conversation like you’ve won something. Big difference here is you literally took a job away from me and everyone else here at our airline. So if you think you will have a warm welcome I assure you I’ll be leading the information highway of who you are for the world to see. You think you will be a swoop only flightdeck? Think again. Don’t worry I know we have a stellar pilot assistance team to help with your depression when you see just how rough it’s going to get for you guys here. But hey welcome to our airline bud. Feel free to write me an email dude anytime and we can meet in yhm anytime you like.
We took jobs for a startup airline that were offered to the street. I can appreciate you had an internal fight going on, but that was your business and still is.
Swoop is a startup, no took away jobs from you as they were newly created positions offered to the street for a new airline. Swoop was and continues to be a separate airline operated under a separate AOC, much like Encore. You can take that argument up with your MEC and management how you got there. Good to see that future positions will be able to be filled by the guys at Encore and WJ if they so desire.
I've been around longer than most, not hard to figure out who I am, it's not a great secret. Thanks for the welcome and the assistance offer, but I'm sure I'll be just fine operating with whomever I end up working with. Have yourself a good weekend :wink:
Guess where the other 160 pilots for the 10 airplanes are coming from this year bud?? Our airline. I again assure you it won’t be a nice place for any of you. But ya you try to justify that we left the jobs on the table. You probably all convinced yourselves of it. Tell me why you needed armed security at your groundschools if it’s your flying? Nothing bad going on??? Hmmm. Don’t try to spin it dude. Your a bottom feeder. Your self convincing attitude that you’ve done “nothing” wrong is just nuts. Don’t worry as GGG said before in ignite 20 we’ll make it uncomfortable for those who don’t belong so they will leave. That’s a quote from OUR previous ceo.. but you don’t know that because you don’t work for our airline. But guess what... your so called airline... is now ours. And so is all the flying and expansion.
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

#121 Post by schnitzel2k3 » Sat May 26, 2018 1:00 pm

B757FO wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 12:40 pm
tbaylx wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 12:25 pm
B757FO wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 11:07 am


Oh man your way off here brother... although over the years.....
....
Guess where the other 160 pilots for the 10 airplanes are coming....mine mine mine mine
Image

All of you sound the same with your idle threats. At the end of the day if you make it uncomfortable, those guys will take their type ratings elsewhere...not a big deal for either party.

Did you guys manage to get the flying at par for mainline wages? No? Technically management has won because you are doing exactly what they want. Fighting to get those 37s back at whatever cost. It'll end up another rung for the 100s of Q4 drivers at the lower wage structure, exactly where I thought it would.

Focus on your mediations, get your agreement straight. Get the salaries organized for those 87s and then worry about collecting Swoop under your umbrella again.

Horse before the carriage.

S.
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

#122 Post by tbaylx » Sat May 26, 2018 1:48 pm

B757FO wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 12:40 pm
tbaylx wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 12:25 pm
B757FO wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 11:07 am


Oh man your way off here brother... although over the years mbav8r and I didn’t agree on all points I certainly would invite him over for a beer and discussion. More than I would say for your comments here tbaylx.

Whoever you say you know I can assure you they will not be accepting of you with open arms. I certainly won’t be. But feel free to say it’s your airline. Words means nothing and I and 2000 Westjet and encore pilots built it. You took the easy way around 2000 pilots. It’s funny your taking a position of power in your conversation like you’ve won something. Big difference here is you literally took a job away from me and everyone else here at our airline. So if you think you will have a warm welcome I assure you I’ll be leading the information highway of who you are for the world to see. You think you will be a swoop only flightdeck? Think again. Don’t worry I know we have a stellar pilot assistance team to help with your depression when you see just how rough it’s going to get for you guys here. But hey welcome to our airline bud. Feel free to write me an email dude anytime and we can meet in yhm anytime you like.
We took jobs for a startup airline that were offered to the street. I can appreciate you had an internal fight going on, but that was your business and still is.
Swoop is a startup, no took away jobs from you as they were newly created positions offered to the street for a new airline. Swoop was and continues to be a separate airline operated under a separate AOC, much like Encore. You can take that argument up with your MEC and management how you got there. Good to see that future positions will be able to be filled by the guys at Encore and WJ if they so desire.
I've been around longer than most, not hard to figure out who I am, it's not a great secret. Thanks for the welcome and the assistance offer, but I'm sure I'll be just fine operating with whomever I end up working with. Have yourself a good weekend :wink:
Guess where the other 160 pilots for the 10 airplanes are coming from this year bud?? Our airline. I again assure you it won’t be a nice place for any of you. But ya you try to justify that we left the jobs on the table. You probably all convinced yourselves of it. Tell me why you needed armed security at your groundschools if it’s your flying? Nothing bad going on??? Hmmm. Don’t try to spin it dude. Your a bottom feeder. Your self convincing attitude that you’ve done “nothing” wrong is just nuts. Don’t worry as GGG said before in ignite 20 we’ll make it uncomfortable for those who don’t belong so they will leave. That’s a quote from OUR previous ceo.. but you don’t know that because you don’t work for our airline. But guess what... your so called airline... is now ours. And so is all the flying and expansion.
You realize all the OTS guys you’re going to make so uncomfortable are the Chief Pilot, training managers, ACP’s and line indoc/check pilots at Swoop right? Not sure how uncomfortable they’re gonna feel, I suspect they’ll do their jobs like the professionals they are instead of taking it all personally. Perhaps you could try and do the same.
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Transonic
Rank 3
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Posts: 128
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:56 am

Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

#123 Post by Transonic » Sat May 26, 2018 2:11 pm

tbaylx wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 1:48 pm
B757FO wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 12:40 pm
tbaylx wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 12:25 pm


We took jobs for a startup airline that were offered to the street. I can appreciate you had an internal fight going on, but that was your business and still is.
Swoop is a startup, no took away jobs from you as they were newly created positions offered to the street for a new airline. Swoop was and continues to be a separate airline operated under a separate AOC, much like Encore. You can take that argument up with your MEC and management how you got there. Good to see that future positions will be able to be filled by the guys at Encore and WJ if they so desire.
I've been around longer than most, not hard to figure out who I am, it's not a great secret. Thanks for the welcome and the assistance offer, but I'm sure I'll be just fine operating with whomever I end up working with. Have yourself a good weekend :wink:
Guess where the other 160 pilots for the 10 airplanes are coming from this year bud?? Our airline. I again assure you it won’t be a nice place for any of you. But ya you try to justify that we left the jobs on the table. You probably all convinced yourselves of it. Tell me why you needed armed security at your groundschools if it’s your flying? Nothing bad going on??? Hmmm. Don’t try to spin it dude. Your a bottom feeder. Your self convincing attitude that you’ve done “nothing” wrong is just nuts. Don’t worry as GGG said before in ignite 20 we’ll make it uncomfortable for those who don’t belong so they will leave. That’s a quote from OUR previous ceo.. but you don’t know that because you don’t work for our airline. But guess what... your so called airline... is now ours. And so is all the flying and expansion.
You realize all the OTS guys you’re going to make so uncomfortable are the Chief Pilot, training managers, ACP’s and line indoc/check pilots at Swoop right? Not sure how uncomfortable they’re gonna feel, I suspect they’ll do their jobs like the professionals they are instead of taking it all personally. Perhaps you could try and do the same.
Is there really a need for a duplicate structure now?

There are plenty of loyal pilots at WestJet who would love to occupy those positions. Our Flt-Ops managers too would love to see their friends promoted into new positions.
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Transonic
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Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

#124 Post by Transonic » Sat May 26, 2018 2:18 pm

schnitzel2k3 wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 1:00 pm
B757FO wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 12:40 pm
tbaylx wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 12:25 pm

....
Guess where the other 160 pilots for the 10 airplanes are coming....mine mine mine mine
Image

All of you sound the same with your idle threats. At the end of the day if you make it uncomfortable, those guys will take their type ratings elsewhere...not a big deal for either party.

Did you guys manage to get the flying at par for mainline wages? No? Technically management has won because you are doing exactly what they want. Fighting to get those 37s back at whatever cost. It'll end up another rung for the 100s of Q4 drivers at the lower wage structure, exactly where I thought it would.

Focus on your mediations, get your agreement straight. Get the salaries organized for those 87s and then worry about collecting Swoop under your umbrella again.

Horse before the carriage.

S.
Of course you, NCP/Weedpro, would rather focus on 787 wages.

The majority of your previous predictions from all personalities have been wrong. Remember, you suggested a common employer complaint would happen and it would fail. The only one that was right was the lockout.
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Last edited by Transonic on Sat May 26, 2018 2:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

mbav8r
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Posts: 1832
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Location: Manitoba

Re: Gloom & Doom Q2 outlook...are you kidding?

#125 Post by mbav8r » Sat May 26, 2018 2:20 pm

tbaylx wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 1:48 pm
[quote=B757FO post_id=<a href="tel:1040911">1040911</a> time=<a href="tel:1527363653">1527363653</a> user_id=5136]
[quote=tbaylx post_id=<a href="tel:1040908">1040908</a> time=<a href="tel:1527362757">1527362757</a> user_id=1736]
[quote=B757FO post_id=<a href="tel:1040899">1040899</a> time=<a href="tel:1527358034">1527358034</a> user_id=5136]


Oh man your way off here brother... although over the years mbav8r and I didn’t agree on all points I certainly would invite him over for a beer and discussion. More than I would say for your comments here tbaylx.

Whoever you say you know I can assure you they will not be accepting of you with open arms. I certainly won’t be. But feel free to say it’s your airline. Words means nothing and I and 2000 Westjet and encore pilots built it. You took the easy way around 2000 pilots. It’s funny your taking a position of power in your conversation like you’ve won something. Big difference here is you literally took a job away from me and everyone else here at our airline. So if you think you will have a warm welcome I assure you I’ll be leading the information highway of who you are for the world to see. You think you will be a swoop only flightdeck? Think again. Don’t worry I know we have a stellar pilot assistance team to help with your depression when you see just how rough it’s going to get for you guys here. But hey welcome to our airline bud. Feel free to write me an email dude anytime and we can meet in yhm anytime you like.
We took jobs for a startup airline that were offered to the street. I can appreciate you had an internal fight going on, but that was your business and still is.
Swoop is a startup, no took away jobs from you as they were newly created positions offered to the street for a new airline. Swoop was and continues to be a separate airline operated under a separate AOC, much like Encore. You can take that argument up with your MEC and management how you got there. Good to see that future positions will be able to be filled by the guys at Encore and WJ if they so desire.
I've been around longer than most, not hard to figure out who I am, it's not a great secret. Thanks for the welcome and the assistance offer, but I'm sure I'll be just fine operating with whomever I end up working with. Have yourself a good weekend :wink:
[/quote]

Guess where the other 160 pilots for the 10 airplanes are coming from this year bud?? Our airline. I again assure you it won’t be a nice place for any of you. But ya you try to justify that we left the jobs on the table. You probably all convinced yourselves of it. Tell me why you needed armed security at your groundschools if it’s your flying? Nothing bad going on??? Hmmm. Don’t try to spin it dude. Your a bottom feeder. Your self convincing attitude that you’ve done “nothing” wrong is just nuts. Don’t worry as GGG said before in ignite 20 we’ll make it uncomfortable for those who don’t belong so they will leave. That’s a quote from OUR previous ceo.. but you don’t know that because you don’t work for our airline. But guess what... your so called airline... is now ours. And so is all the flying and expansion.
[/quote]

You realize all the OTS guys you’re going to make so uncomfortable are the Chief Pilot, training managers, ACP’s and line indoc/check pilots at Swoop right? Not sure how uncomfortable they’re gonna feel, I suspect they’ll do their jobs like the professionals they are instead of taking it all personally. Perhaps you could try and do the same.
[/quote]
It’s cute you think there will be a need now for a separate OC or redundant training positions, this will go the same as the “classic airline” at Jazz, since the question about who will be flying the swoop flying has been answered and no other group has any claim to scope, it can just simply be a division of WJ and for having WJ pilots flying for another airline, it’s much simpler to have under the same OC. Rouge pilots can’t go back and forth between AC, for that’s very reason I believe the swoop OC will be surrendered before it begins.
Again, best of luck to you:)
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