WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

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KAG
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

Post by KAG » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:24 am

Sorry to hear john. Are the medicals standard across all Chinese airlines? There are other airlines you could apply to.
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

Post by WeedPro2000 » Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:30 pm

Well, the CAAC (Chinese TC) has a number of different regions, and apparently pilots have failed medicals in one region, but then passed in another. My problem is the black and white prohibition on the pre-operative limitation. So, I am looking to see if there is a way to appeal the decision and perhaps be examined by a Chinese opthamologist. That's a long shot, but I really really want to finish the medical and make it to the part where the doctor makes you squat naked and shoves his finger in your bottom. All the while in a room of similarly naked pilots.

One guy failed the sniff test on the one day and had to come back the next day. The sniff test is when the doc gets the pilot to put his arms on his hips, and then the doc walks behind the candidate and cups the air with his hand, waving it towards his nose, such that he can sense if the pilot has an armpit odor. No lie. The pilot in question admitted to smelling a bit "gamey" late in the afternoon. After showering, he was fine the next morning.

It certainly is much safer to remain in Canada flying and not face medical failure every 6 months. That must be challenging. And perhaps part of the reason why the money on offer is so high.

Cheers
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

Post by schnitzel2k3 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:58 am

WeedPro2000 wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:30 pm
Well, the CAAC (Chinese TC) has a number of different regions, and apparently pilots have failed medicals in one region, but then passed in another. My problem is the black and white prohibition on the pre-operative limitation. So, I am looking to see if there is a way to appeal the decision and perhaps be examined by a Chinese opthamologist. That's a long shot, but I really really want to finish the medical and make it to the part where the doctor makes you squat naked and shoves his finger in your bottom. All the while in a room of similarly naked pilots.

One guy failed the sniff test on the one day and had to come back the next day. The sniff test is when the doc gets the pilot to put his arms on his hips, and then the doc walks behind the candidate and cups the air with his hand, waving it towards his nose, such that he can sense if the pilot has an armpit odor. No lie. The pilot in question admitted to smelling a bit "gamey" late in the afternoon. After showering, he was fine the next morning.

It certainly is much safer to remain in Canada flying and not face medical failure every 6 months. That must be challenging. And perhaps part of the reason why the money on offer is so high.

Cheers
Secretly the doc is twisted and wafting his silent but deadly farts from behind.

🤢🤯

S.
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

Post by Eric Janson » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:29 pm

@WeedPro2000

Ever consider that perhaps they’re doing you a favour?

For what it’s worth:- Never give up a stable job in your home country to become an Expat

Spent 8 years in S Asia (Full time not commuting) - it was a great experience - it all ended one day without any explanation.
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Last edited by Eric Janson on Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

Post by WeedPro2000 » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:48 am

Eric, that is advice one can only give as a result of having been there and got the T-shirt. I likely would have made the right decision, but I’m lucky in that the decision was made for me. I was trying to ignore the warning signs flagged by expats such as yourself, but there certainly were aspects of the job that were motivating me to take the risk of leaving permanent, stable employment for risky contract employment. Ignoring risk factors might be part of my genetic makeup... I consistently jump off a perfectly serviceable bridge, evidence of poor life choices.
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

Post by WeedPro2000 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:13 am

Bede wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:12 am
tbaylx wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:44 am
A national seniority system where you can carry your seniority from one airline to another and change jobs without severe financial repercussions would force companies to compete for talent and raise wages.
Well, exactly. That's what we're trying to do. We started with Encore. Then you come along, take advantage of our labour issues, and attempt to enrich yourself by jumping to the front of the line ahead of our Encore colleagues.
Hey Francis, a slight correction. The WJPA did that with Encore. ALPA took that away.
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

Post by The Tenth Man » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:15 am

Bede wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:49 pm
ahramin wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:31 pm
I would think the pilots hired for swoop will be given the option of joining the mainline.
BOTL at encore at best. This flying belongs to our encore brothers/sisters.
Actually, Kaplan gave OTS Swoop pilots DOH. Encore pilots who flow to WJ will get DOH. That's under ALPA rules. Under the WJPA, Encore pilots carried their DOH.
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

Post by pacman007 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:24 pm

so whats the word? is the one list Westjet pilots wanted gone? what would you do with the pilots that already flowed? sounds like a mess.....unionization seems to have made some pissed off pilots and some very pissed off pilots..was it a win?
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

Post by J31 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:09 pm

:smt064
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

Post by RidersRule » Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:31 pm

China_CAAC_Exam wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:15 am
Bede wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:49 pm
ahramin wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:31 pm
I would think the pilots hired for swoop will be given the option of joining the mainline.
BOTL at encore at best. This flying belongs to our encore brothers/sisters.
Actually, Kaplan gave OTS Swoop pilots DOH. Encore pilots who flow to WJ will get DOH. That's under ALPA rules. Under the WJPA, Encore pilots carried their DOH.
John I have to ask you...

I always liked flying with you because we had a lot of fun many years ago.

Why do you have five or six handles and have conversations with your self. It doesn't make any sense to me. Sometimes I think maybe your bipolar, but as someone who is married to someone who is bipolar(it’s an illness, we should be able to talk about it), that doesn't seem to fit. I don’t get it.

I continually fly with people(probably once a month) that have something negative to say about you, and I try to explain/defend you about how good you were too work with in the good old days and who John is but I am honestly getting tired of making excuses for you.

When I come to work I try, as the captain, to set the mood for the Crew and hope I can get everything started off on the right foot. I don’t expect to get along with everyone but 95% of the guys/girls I fly with I do. The 5% I don’t, as I have gotten older and wiser, I have learned to look inward first before looking at them as the problem. Am I tired. Is it my bipolar wife and the day she’s having. Is it my four kids at home. Is it my shitty commute to YYZ. But at the end of the day, when I retire, I hope a lot of my fellow FO’s will say, that Travis guy was a lot of fun to fly with. I wish him all the best.

What do you want at the end of the day, when it’s time to hang up your headset? What do you hope to accomplish? How do you want to be remembered? Is this your legacy. Five handles on avcanada bitching about ALPA?

Sorry you didn’t get on in china. I hope u find your guiding light (sorry, copied that from a yammer post 😉)
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

Post by hurtin'albertan » Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:42 pm

China_CAAC_Exam wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:15 am
Bede wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:49 pm
ahramin wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:31 pm
I would think the pilots hired for swoop will be given the option of joining the mainline.
BOTL at encore at best. This flying belongs to our encore brothers/sisters.
Actually, Kaplan gave OTS Swoop pilots DOH. Encore pilots who flow to WJ will get DOH. That's under ALPA rules. Under the WJPA, Encore pilots carried their DOH.
John/weed/chinafailedcockexamorwhatever:

Ask someone to send you the last Fastread where they mec talks about how the one list is in the process of being preserved. The ball is in the company's court now.

Ah, whatever, I'll give you the gist of it:

"This agreement recognizes the seniority of WestJet and Encore pilots within the WestJet group. This document has been legally reviewed and meets the requirements set forth under the ALPA Constitution and Canadian labour law.

This initiative follows the original intent of the "One List," a policy that was overwhelmingly supported by pilots (based on survey results) at WestJet."

So maybe you can find some salsa or something to enjoy with that crow you should be eating right about now. If the "one list" dies, it's because the company killed it.

Maybe you can tell your alteregos so they stop spamming this forum with the same inane shit.
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

Post by cloak » Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:37 am

Some issues are taboos that no one wants to address and therefore they attack the person. It's best to talk on the issue to the forum, kind of like parliaments that have a "speaker of the house". Mind you they still end-up attacking the person, only through the poor speaker! Perhaps some day!
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

Post by complexintentions » Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:56 pm

Ahhh...WestJet...you put the "fun" in "dysfunctional"... :mrgreen:

Geezuz, how far a band of 737-floggers has fallen...
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

Post by True North » Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:14 pm

complexintentions wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:56 pm
Ahhh...WestJet...you put the "fun" in "dysfunctional"... :mrgreen:

Geezuz, how far a band of 737-floggers has fallen...
Ain't that the truth.
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

Post by The Tenth Man » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:13 pm

hurtin'albertan wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:42 pm
China_CAAC_Exam wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:15 am
Bede wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:49 pm


BOTL at encore at best. This flying belongs to our encore brothers/sisters.
Actually, Kaplan gave OTS Swoop pilots DOH. Encore pilots who flow to WJ will get DOH. That's under ALPA rules. Under the WJPA, Encore pilots carried their DOH.
John/weed/chinafailedcockexamorwhatever:

Ask someone to send you the last Fastread where they mec talks about how the one list is in the process of being preserved. The ball is in the company's court now.

Ah, whatever, I'll give you the gist of it:

"This agreement recognizes the seniority of WestJet and Encore pilots within the WestJet group. This document has been legally reviewed and meets the requirements set forth under the ALPA Constitution and Canadian labour law.

This initiative follows the original intent of the "One List," a policy that was overwhelmingly supported by pilots (based on survey results) at WestJet."

So maybe you can find some salsa or something to enjoy with that crow you should be eating right about now. If the "one list" dies, it's because the company killed it.

Maybe you can tell your alteregos so they stop spamming this forum with the same inane shit.
So because the MEC tells you, without any details, that something is legal, and it's all up to the company, you believe them.

Okay.

The simple fact is, if ALPA wants to replace DOH seniority with any other means of determining upgrade etc, then they are in a heap of trouble legally.

Another fact, if they are planning to merge seniority lists, then according to ALPA rules, which they MUST follow (or they're in a heap of legal trouble), then this would seriously impact the future earnings of already-flowed WJE pilots by placing them behind people they used to be senior to at WJE.

I think I have a done a sufficient job of explaining these two outcomes on the Encore sub-forum. Anything else you have to add?
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

Post by hurtin'albertan » Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:08 am

China_CAAC_Exam wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:13 pm
hurtin'albertan wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:42 pm
China_CAAC_Exam wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:15 am


Actually, Kaplan gave OTS Swoop pilots DOH. Encore pilots who flow to WJ will get DOH. That's under ALPA rules. Under the WJPA, Encore pilots carried their DOH.
John/weed/chinafailedcockexamorwhatever:

Ask someone to send you the last Fastread where they mec talks about how the one list is in the process of being preserved. The ball is in the company's court now.

Ah, whatever, I'll give you the gist of it:

"This agreement recognizes the seniority of WestJet and Encore pilots within the WestJet group. This document has been legally reviewed and meets the requirements set forth under the ALPA Constitution and Canadian labour law.

This initiative follows the original intent of the "One List," a policy that was overwhelmingly supported by pilots (based on survey results) at WestJet."

So maybe you can find some salsa or something to enjoy with that crow you should be eating right about now. If the "one list" dies, it's because the company killed it.

Maybe you can tell your alteregos so they stop spamming this forum with the same inane shit.
So because the MEC tells you, without any details, that something is legal, and it's all up to the company, you believe them.

Okay.

The simple fact is, if ALPA wants to replace DOH seniority with any other means of determining upgrade etc, then they are in a heap of trouble legally.

Another fact, if they are planning to merge seniority lists, then according to ALPA rules, which they MUST follow (or they're in a heap of legal trouble), then this would seriously impact the future earnings of already-flowed WJE pilots by placing them behind people they used to be senior to at WJE.

I think I have a done a sufficient job of explaining these two outcomes on the Encore sub-forum. Anything else you have to add?
"So because the MEC tells you, without any details, that something is legal, and it's all up to the company, you believe them."

What details do I need other than an email from my reps saying: it's passed all the sniff tests and complies with ALPA policy?

"The simple fact is, if ALPA wants to replace DOH seniority with any other means of determining upgrade etc, then they are in a heap of trouble legally."

Not if there is an agreed upon recognition of DOH seniority that is signed off by all the players (WJ pilots, WJE pilots, mgmt)

"Another fact, if they are planning to merge seniority lists, then according to ALPA rules, which they MUST follow (or they're in a heap of legal trouble), then this would seriously impact the future earnings of already-flowed WJE pilots by placing them behind people they used to be senior to at WJE."

I don't even know what this means. How would this affect the future earnings of already flowed WJE pilots if their seniority standing stays intact (which it seems it will)?

"I think I have a done a sufficient job of explaining these two outcomes on the Encore sub-forum. Anything else you have to add?"

I guess I should go over to the encore subforum and have a peek... Oh, wait. I don't give a shit about what you say there, there's an encore sub forum? I don't even know why I care about what you say there or anywhere. This, frankly is a waste of my time really since you will just reply with the same bs, but since I'm bored in a hotel room and I kinda hate people who spout bullshit (maybe this is why I care?), why the heck not? Yes, I'm aware of the irony here so don't bother pointing it out.

I'll add this, since you asked! Even when presented with hard facts you stick your fingers in your ears and yell "lalalalalala I'm right!" while refusing to see the plain truth or evidence in front of you, instead relying on your biased interpretation of "research" you have done looking for evidence to support your personal views and hypotheses.

How's about we see how this actually plays out when the dust settles which won't be long now. And then if I'm wrong I'll post a "you were right John, you've the best!" and if you're wrong, well I expect you will still find a way to try and prove you weren't.

Get better.
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

Post by The Tenth Man » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:31 am

Um, the MEC that told you that everything would be fine doesn’t exist anymore.
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

Post by Lightchop » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:11 pm

Don't confuse MEC Executive, with the MEC. They are not the same thing.
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

Post by Rowdy » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:52 pm

Lightchop wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:11 pm
Don't confuse MEC Executive, with the MEC. They are not the same thing.
Exactly. MEC = Master executive Council. The entire group. Usually supported and voted on by the LEC (Local).

There is an MEC Chair and Vice Chair. One person being replaced does not change the entire group.
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

Post by cloak » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:47 am

Much like United States; changing its president, vice president and secretary of state does not change the entire country!
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

Post by The Tenth Man » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:20 am

cloak wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:47 am
Much like United States; changing its president, vice president and secretary of state does not change the entire country!
I missed this comment lol. Well played.

And yes, the MEC Chairman was recalled, the Vice-Chairman left for better buffets and symposiums, and the Secretary resigned, all within the space of I don't know, two weeks?

Nothing to see here folks lol. ALPA, always good for a laugh.
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

Post by cloak » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:26 am

The Tenth Man wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:20 am
cloak wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:47 am
Much like United States; changing its president, vice president and secretary of state does not change the entire country!
I missed this comment lol. Well played.

And yes, the MEC Chairman was recalled, the Vice-Chairman left for better buffets and symposiums, and the Secretary resigned, all within the space of I don't know, two weeks?

Nothing to see here folks lol. ALPA, always good for a laugh.
It seems ALPA was a failed experiment whereby wrong approach and focus diminished the legitimate aspirations of the pilot group.
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

Post by Donald » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:31 am

So when does OTS hiring for DEC resume?

Will tbaylx be back?

Or will low-time Encore pilots fill the left seat?
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

Post by tbaylx » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:34 pm

Donald wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:31 am
So when does OTS hiring for DEC resume?

Will tbaylx be back?

Or will low-time Encore pilots fill the left seat?
A few of us have politely declined that offer already actually. I suspect you'll see other DEC's there sometime this year.
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

Post by SwoopStar » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:55 pm

Donald wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:31 am
So when does OTS hiring for DEC resume?

Will tbaylx be back?

Or will low-time Encore pilots fill the left seat?

Things are different now as the LOU has deteriorated from the original working conditions. Mainly, the former OTS CAs who left now lose their 12500$ annual bonus, resulting in 10% less compensation. This bonus is not applicable to those who join Swoop after Jan. 1st.

Not to mention, if they had stayed they would be at 120$/hr in April vs the entry of 104$/hr now.

Best of all, the LOU cannot be changed without a vote by all WestJet pilots. So there are NO improvements to look forward too. ALPA is happy to see the LOU fail. If it doesn't, then those that accepted the conditions will endure them for the longevity of Swoop. If Swoop needs better conditions in this pilot market, then the WestJet pilots have to agree. They'll only agree to WestJet pilots at WestJet wages, or very near to.
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