WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

#401 Post by tbaylx » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:05 pm

No one bid the positions
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

#402 Post by RidersRule » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:55 pm

As per the interm order.

“Swoop and WestJet may commence external postings of positions on June 11,2018, however, WestJet pilots shall have priority over any external candidate.
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

#403 Post by Rezy » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:00 pm

JohnnyHotRocks wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:11 pm
Just saw a fresh ad on indeed.ca today for Swoop FOs. What’s the deal with that?
Arbitrator stated WJ could open the Swoop ad on June 12 in case no pilots bid the position, that would allow Swoop to hire OTS - only if the positions are not filled internally. Clear as day in the Interim Order. This was expected weeks ago.
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

#404 Post by J Roc » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:32 am

Not to worry though, WJ will have no problem filling the 26 captain positions to replace the OTS pilots...err...I mean, bypass captain positions. :P
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

#405 Post by WeedPro2000 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:02 am

Rezy wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:08 pm

Reserve was always coming with the advent of the 787. Timebank is a loophole that would have beeen closed anyways.
WJ pushed hard for Arbitration right from the get go. Due to ALPA’s successful negotiations, thus far, they were able lock in YOS, Duty Rigs, and Swoop flying.
Time will tell how well ALPA makes out on the rest, but at this point they are ahead of the WJPA.
Ok junior, let's examine what you wrote. I think you may have worn a helmet on the short bus you rode to school.

Reserve likely was coming in some form, granted.

Timebank was successfully negotiated by the WJPA and was no more a loophole than any other component of the agreement. It did allow pilots like myself to consistently get time off in which I could work and pick up OT or like May and June, spend the time off jumping off a bridge. The time bank was beneficial for both pilots and the company. Now, what you may have misunderstood is that perhaps the rinsing of OT money via the time bank to make it eligible for PS and ESP, well, perhaps that was a loophole. In any event, if ALPA lost the timebank, well, they're incompetent.

YOS was introduced, albeit in a limited form in the last agreement negotiated by the WJPA. The WJPA would have achieved better YOS in the 2019 agreement, as every agreeement has gotten better in the 15+ years I have been at WJ.

Duty rigs? I can't speculate on what would have happened there. I also don't know what the effect on pairing construction and days worked will be.

Swoop flying? That was already in the hands of the WJ and Encore pilots when Swoop was announced last April. So that's not a gain.

What have we lost? Well, so far, ALPA has destroyed the relationship between management and the pilots. Stand by for the effects on that one.

The current and former Encore pilots have lost the one list, which means they lost the benefit of the carry-over of their Encore DOH when they flowed to WJ. Everything now will be by WJ DOH, so I don't imagine they'll be happy. The OTS pilots at WJ, OTOH, they must be very happy. But that's ALPA, great at making winners and losers.

Ciao for now.
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

#406 Post by brooks » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:09 am

Guys, quit feeding the Weed. You're embarrassing the company.
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

#407 Post by Schooner69A » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:21 am

Brooks: that's quite an eloquent rebuttal...

Anything else?
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

#408 Post by WeedPro2000 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:53 am

Brooks, is that your best?
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

#409 Post by Rezy » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:35 am

WeedPro2000 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:02 am
Rezy wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:08 pm

Reserve was always coming with the advent of the 787. Timebank is a loophole that would have beeen closed anyways.
WJ pushed hard for Arbitration right from the get go. Due to ALPA’s successful negotiations, thus far, they were able lock in YOS, Duty Rigs, and Swoop flying.
Time will tell how well ALPA makes out on the rest, but at this point they are ahead of the WJPA.
Ok junior, let's examine what you wrote. I think you may have worn a helmet on the short bus you rode to school.

Reserve likely was coming in some form, granted.

Timebank was successfully negotiated by the WJPA and was no more a loophole than any other component of the agreement. It did allow pilots like myself to consistently get time off in which I could work and pick up OT or like May and June, spend the time off jumping off a bridge. The time bank was beneficial for both pilots and the company. Now, what you may have misunderstood is that perhaps the rinsing of OT money via the time bank to make it eligible for PS and ESP, well, perhaps that was a loophole. In any event, if ALPA lost the timebank, well, they're incompetent.

YOS was introduced, albeit in a limited form in the last agreement negotiated by the WJPA. The WJPA would have achieved better YOS in the 2019 agreement, as every agreeement has gotten better in the 15+ years I have been at WJ.

Duty rigs? I can't speculate on what would have happened there. I also don't know what the effect on pairing construction and days worked will be.

Swoop flying? That was already in the hands of the WJ and Encore pilots when Swoop was announced last April. So that's not a gain.

What have we lost? Well, so far, ALPA has destroyed the relationship between management and the pilots. Stand by for the effects on that one.

The current and former Encore pilots have lost the one list, which means they lost the benefit of the carry-over of their Encore DOH when they flowed to WJ. Everything now will be by WJ DOH, so I don't imagine they'll be happy. The OTS pilots at WJ, OTOH, they must be very happy. But that's ALPA, great at making winners and losers.

Ciao for now.
I should have been more clear on the Timebank - it was negotiated by the WJPA, however the OT loophole that allowed increased ESP would have been closed. Very few use the timebank as intended, as most make use of the increased income loophole.

If you want to speculate that the WJPA could have got YOS - go right ahead. At best this is a fairytale that you’re telling yourself. As the only word from the WJPA was “It’s never gonna happen”.

Swoop flying was in the hands of WJ pilots, but at the worst 737 rates in Canada. ALPA will secure better pay and working conditions, which is a prediction based that the Arbitrator that will use competitor rates to give Swoop a pay scale. Keep in mind that as Swoop is now common employer the wages could be the same. An opportunity the WJPA never came close to.

The one list is intake and if you want to guess that it isn’t, go right ahead. We will know for sure in a few months.

So in short your response was nothing but speculation on what the WJPA could have got, but didn’t, and didn’t say they were going to. As well as Swoop flying at pretty much the worst rates in the country. As well as name calling and overly dramatic statements, is that really the only way you know how to win an argument?
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

#410 Post by J Roc » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:52 am

WeedPro2000 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:02 am

Ok junior, let's examine what you wrote. I think you may have worn a helmet on the short bus you rode to school.
And there you have it - the respect and engagement that we endured under the WJPA which was perpetuated by the minions who served those masters. THANKS be to JEBUS that that rule has ended!

Careful though, John, that aggressive and insulting tone could jeopardize the strong 9% minority you fellas have. LOL :P

Seriously though! We're still talking about the WJPA?? HONEST TO GOD! That ship has sailed dude - time to let it go. Oh well, I guess denial ain't just a river in Egypt.
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

#411 Post by cloak » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:46 pm

It would be a loss if WS pilots lost banked time off; that is a very good feature that they and a couple of other companies have. Not sure about the loop hole, but it would be good if they could close that gap and keep the plan? Years of service is great, although it would make for substantial cost increase making other monetary gains less likely, for instance Swoop pay, especially with other precedence such as Rouge. This would make it less appealing for WestJet pilots who may be better off waiting knowing they make more where they are and even more when they upgrade? With Flair closely behind and Jetlines fast approaching, it's good to have realistic expectations.
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

#412 Post by WeedPro2000 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:11 pm

J Roc wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:52 am
WeedPro2000 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:02 am

Ok junior, let's examine what you wrote. I think you may have worn a helmet on the short bus you rode to school.
And there you have it - the respect and engagement that we endured under the WJPA which was perpetuated by the minions who served those masters. THANKS be to JEBUS that that rule has ended!

Careful though, John, that aggressive and insulting tone could jeopardize the strong 9% minority you fellas have. LOL :P

Seriously though! We're still talking about the WJPA?? HONEST TO GOD! That ship has sailed dude - time to let it go. Oh well, I guess denial ain't just a river in Egypt.
Dude, I wasn’t the one who brought up the WJPA in this thread.

Additionally, I wouldn’t confuse a 91% strike vote with 91% support for ALPA. I’d start with the former Encore pilots now at WJ, once they see that they lost their position on the seniority list I’m sure they’ll be less than thrilled with ALPA.

Similarly, the fiasco that is the Swoop episode as handled by ALPA hasn’t made any fans. The WJPA had all of that flying already, with ZERO OTS pilots, and even with NO negotiation the company paid TransAt/SunWing pay...the WJPA would have got a better deal than that. And now, because of the uncertainty on the current Swoop bid, many Swoop positions are being filled by OTS pilots...Encore pilots are unable to apply. These are yet more positions being put on the WJ seniority list ahead of Encore pilots.

I’ll stop there. I’m jumping off a bridge in Idaho and at this point couldn’t care less how much more ALPA fecks things up.

Toodles
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

#413 Post by J Roc » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:38 pm

WeedPro2000 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:11 pm
J Roc wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:52 am
WeedPro2000 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:02 am

Ok junior, let's examine what you wrote. I think you may have worn a helmet on the short bus you rode to school.
And there you have it - the respect and engagement that we endured under the WJPA which was perpetuated by the minions who served those masters. THANKS be to JEBUS that that rule has ended!

Careful though, John, that aggressive and insulting tone could jeopardize the strong 9% minority you fellas have. LOL :P

Seriously though! We're still talking about the WJPA?? HONEST TO GOD! That ship has sailed dude - time to let it go. Oh well, I guess denial ain't just a river in Egypt.
Dude, I wasn’t the one who brought up the WJPA in this thread.

Additionally, I wouldn’t confuse a 91% strike vote with 91% support for ALPA. I’d start with the former Encore pilots now at WJ, once they see that they lost their position on the seniority list I’m sure they’ll be less than thrilled with ALPA.

Similarly, the fiasco that is the Swoop episode as handled by ALPA hasn’t made any fans. The WJPA had all of that flying already, with ZERO OTS pilots, and even with NO negotiation the company paid TransAt/SunWing pay...the WJPA would have got a better deal than that. And now, because of the uncertainty on the current Swoop bid, many Swoop positions are being filled by OTS pilots...Encore pilots are unable to apply. These are yet more positions being put on the WJ seniority list ahead of Encore pilots.

I’ll stop there. I’m jumping off a bridge in Idaho and at this point couldn’t care less how much more ALPA fecks things up.

Toodles
LOL! Oh, I get it now! You're using the "but he started it" defence. Makes perfect sense and nicely compliments your "nana nana boo boo, I'm right you're wrong" celebration in an early post. My bad... :lol:
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

#414 Post by flyzam » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:30 pm

J Roc wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:38 pm

LOL! Oh, I get it now! You're using the "but he started it" defence. Makes perfect sense and nicely compliments your "nana nana boo boo, I'm right you're wrong" celebration in an early post. My bad... :lol:
They let you guys fly airplanes? No wonder they were trying to hire OTS
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

#415 Post by Old fella » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:27 pm

“........ I’m jumping off a bridge in Idaho and at this point couldn’t care less........ “

Not The Golden Gate in SFO?

:smt040
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

#416 Post by RidersRule » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:57 pm

.
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

#417 Post by Flyingsquirrelsuck » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:39 am

WeedPro2000 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:02 am
Rezy wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:08 pm

Reserve was always coming with the advent of the 787. Timebank is a loophole that would have beeen closed anyways.
WJ pushed hard for Arbitration right from the get go. Due to ALPA’s successful negotiations, thus far, they were able lock in YOS, Duty Rigs, and Swoop flying.
Time will tell how well ALPA makes out on the rest, but at this point they are ahead of the WJPA.
Ok junior, let's examine what you wrote. I think you may have worn a helmet on the short bus you rode to school.

Reserve likely was coming in some form, granted.

Timebank was successfully negotiated by the WJPA and was no more a loophole than any other component of the agreement. It did allow pilots like myself to consistently get time off in which I could work and pick up OT or like May and June, spend the time off jumping off a bridge. The time bank was beneficial for both pilots and the company. Now, what you may have misunderstood is that perhaps the rinsing of OT money via the time bank to make it eligible for PS and ESP, well, perhaps that was a loophole. In any event, if ALPA lost the timebank, well, they're incompetent.

YOS was introduced, albeit in a limited form in the last agreement negotiated by the WJPA. The WJPA would have achieved better YOS in the 2019 agreement, as every agreeement has gotten better in the 15+ years I have been at WJ.

Duty rigs? I can't speculate on what would have happened there. I also don't know what the effect on pairing construction and days worked will be.

Swoop flying? That was already in the hands of the WJ and Encore pilots when Swoop was announced last April. So that's not a gain.

What have we lost? Well, so far, ALPA has destroyed the relationship between management and the pilots. Stand by for the effects on that one.

The current and former Encore pilots have lost the one list, which means they lost the benefit of the carry-over of their Encore DOH when they flowed to WJ. Everything now will be by WJ DOH, so I don't imagine they'll be happy. The OTS pilots at WJ, OTOH, they must be very happy. But that's ALPA, great at making winners and losers.

Ciao for now.
Completely wrong on the YOS in the next contract under the WJPA. The current YOS in the agreement is a joke. How many pilots do you know John benefitted from that when upgrading to the left seat? How do you know it would have been negotiated? Pure speculation. It’s going to cost Westjet 36 million dollars for 1:1 YOS in the upcoming CBA.

Describe the past relationship we had with management under the WJPA John. I would love to hear your spin on it.

I would say the past relationship was unsustainable at best.
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

#418 Post by J Roc » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:35 am

flyzam wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:30 pm
J Roc wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:38 pm

LOL! Oh, I get it now! You're using the "but he started it" defence. Makes perfect sense and nicely compliments your "nana nana boo boo, I'm right you're wrong" celebration in an early post. My bad... :lol:
They let you guys fly airplanes? No wonder they were trying to hire OTS
Hahaha. I'm an average pilot at best my friend! :D

Can't say that I've ever been deemed un-upgradeable though. Can all the "OTS" captains make that claim? :wink:
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

#419 Post by Jumbo744 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:14 am

J Roc wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:35 am
flyzam wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:30 pm
J Roc wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:38 pm

LOL! Oh, I get it now! You're using the "but he started it" defence. Makes perfect sense and nicely compliments your "nana nana boo boo, I'm right you're wrong" celebration in an early post. My bad... :lol:
They let you guys fly airplanes? No wonder they were trying to hire OTS
Hahaha. I'm an average pilot at best my friend! :D

Can't say that I've ever been deemed un-upgradeable though. Can all the "OTS" captains make that claim? :wink:
Slow down here...Here are some FACTS: Most OTS Captains at Swoop were all either: Captains on widebodies in the Gulf, in Asia, Europe or even at Cargojet. Those guys were Captains, Training Captains on A330s, 777s, 787s, 75/767s, etc...Same for the FOs they were Captains on smaller jets here in Canada.
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

#420 Post by True North » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:53 am

J Roc wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:35 am
flyzam wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:30 pm
J Roc wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:38 pm

LOL! Oh, I get it now! You're using the "but he started it" defence. Makes perfect sense and nicely compliments your "nana nana boo boo, I'm right you're wrong" celebration in an early post. My bad... :lol:
They let you guys fly airplanes? No wonder they were trying to hire OTS
Hahaha. I'm an average pilot at best my friend! :D

Can't say that I've ever been deemed un-upgradeable though. Can all the "OTS" captains make that claim? :wink:
I have no idea but they are undoubtedly more mature and professional. If I were a WestJet pilot I would be profoundly embarrassed to admit it with what is going on here. Just pathetic.
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

#421 Post by J Roc » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:54 am

Jumbo744 wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:14 am
J Roc wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:35 am
flyzam wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:30 pm


They let you guys fly airplanes? No wonder they were trying to hire OTS
Hahaha. I'm an average pilot at best my friend! :D

Can't say that I've ever been deemed un-upgradeable though. Can all the "OTS" captains make that claim? :wink:
Slow down here...Here are some FACTS: Most OTS Captains at Swoop were all either: Captains on widebodies in the Gulf, in Asia, Europe or even at Cargojet. Those guys were Captains, Training Captains on A330s, 777s, 787s, 75/767s, etc...Same for the FOs they were Captains on smaller jets here in Canada.
Calm down, I'm just asking a question. The question was "can ALLof the OTS captains make that claim".

However, you didn't really answer the question, which is fine - I don't think it'll matter soon enough. Once the 26 replacement captains are trained up, the OTS captains will be " directed otherwise by the Meditator/Arbitratior".

The ball is still in play.
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

#422 Post by J Roc » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:32 am

True North wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:53 am
J Roc wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:35 am
flyzam wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:30 pm


They let you guys fly airplanes? No wonder they were trying to hire OTS
Hahaha. I'm an average pilot at best my friend! :D

Can't say that I've ever been deemed un-upgradeable though. Can all the "OTS" captains make that claim? :wink:
I have no idea but they are undoubtedly more mature and professional. If I were a WestJet pilot I would be profoundly embarrassed to admit it with what is going on here. Just pathetic.
:? Honest questions and playful banter on a public forum are the measure of "maturity and professionalism"? Sorry you feel that way. :?

Other than being a average pilot at best, I'm respectful and professional. The swoop pilots will get the same professional respect I give every other pilot I cross paths with. Nothing more, nothing less.

Most people know who I am on here and I don't cower behind an anonymous handle. My opinions are consistent in person - I honestly believe that the OTS pilots don't deserve those jobs and that some may not keep the title of Captain. This doesn't make me " immature" or "unprofessional', it makes me an individual with independent thought.

As far as the bad jokes and misinterpreted banter? Well, I'm just having a bit of fun - try not to take this too serious.
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

#423 Post by True North » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:45 am

J Roc wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:32 am
True North wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:53 am
J Roc wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:35 am


Hahaha. I'm an average pilot at best my friend! :D

Can't say that I've ever been deemed un-upgradeable though. Can all the "OTS" captains make that claim? :wink:
I have no idea but they are undoubtedly more mature and professional. If I were a WestJet pilot I would be profoundly embarrassed to admit it with what is going on here. Just pathetic.
:? Honest questions and playful banter on a public forum are the measure of "maturity and professionalism"? Sorry you feel that way. :?

Other than being a average pilot at best, I'm respectful and professional. The swoop pilots will get the same professional respect I give every other pilot I cross paths with. Nothing more, nothing less.

Most people know who I am on here and I don't cower behind an anonymous handle. My opinions are consistent in person - I honestly believe that the OTS pilots don't deserve those jobs and that some may not keep the title of Captain. This doesn't make me " immature" or "unprofessional', it makes me an individual with independent thought.

As far as the bad jokes and misinterpreted banter? Well, I'm just having a bit of fun - try not to take this too serious.
Trust me, I stopped taking you seriously quite a while ago.
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

#424 Post by J Roc » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:47 am

True North wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:45 am
J Roc wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:32 am
True North wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:53 am

I have no idea but they are undoubtedly more mature and professional. If I were a WestJet pilot I would be profoundly embarrassed to admit it with what is going on here. Just pathetic.
:? Honest questions and playful banter on a public forum are the measure of "maturity and professionalism"? Sorry you feel that way. :?

Other than being a average pilot at best, I'm respectful and professional. The swoop pilots will get the same professional respect I give every other pilot I cross paths with. Nothing more, nothing less.

Most people know who I am on here and I don't cower behind an anonymous handle. My opinions are consistent in person - I honestly believe that the OTS pilots don't deserve those jobs and that some may not keep the title of Captain. This doesn't make me " immature" or "unprofessional', it makes me an individual with independent thought.

As far as the bad jokes and misinterpreted banter? Well, I'm just having a bit of fun - try not to take this too serious.
Trust me, I stopped taking you seriously quite a while ago.
Bahaha! Saw that coming... :lol:
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Re: WestJet pilots to fly Swoop aircraft

#425 Post by Tacoma » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:23 pm

Why are there 6 more “bypass” positions in YHM? Does that mean in YHM there will be 23 OUT OF SENORITY pilots occupying the left seat, plus 23 bypass pilots from the June bid. Plus 6 more now?
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