ULP from CUPE

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FenceSitter
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ULP from CUPE

Post by FenceSitter »

    No link yet but it (the ULP) exists...filed yesterday. It's a big one. As soon as a link exists I will edit and post again. Filming fas, interfering with organizers in yyz and yyc, Ed's email...and more. How many more small-minded and ignorant mistakes is WJ going to make? I'm not even going to speak to the critical error that was the swoop campaign while the sexual harrassment suit is unresolved (can kicked down the road to January 2019).
    The airline, and it's subsidiary, is/are run by complete mental midgets with big chips on their tiny shoulders.

    EDIT) There still isn't a link up but this complaint is interesting. It would seem to be the petty mistakes of the unqualified segment of management, seemingly the majority, and a spineless board at YYC. It would appear that WJ has a choke hold on yyc and they apply pressure to get what they want. Is the airline threatening to move their traffic elsewhere if YYC treats CUPE like any other group? That's my bet...veiled threats of network shifts that, if they happen, were already planned anyway.
    When I read this complaint the strength of the position regarding WJ's alleged infractions comes into question. WJ always has an appearance of distance from the muck. 'Plausible deniability' should be a street sign right beside 'Ragged Ass Road". YYC though, they have made clear and documented mistakes. If WJ is tied through documentation to these ridiculous statements and actions, let's say maybe they share a board member, then an expensive conclusion could be made that will look awful once the press finds out...and they will. I'm not sure when the change happened but the sweetheart airline days are over. There are a lot of outlets seemingly waiting to pop marketing's false bubble.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ ... -1.4702100
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    Application_ULP_CUPE_v_WestJet_and_Calgary_Airport_Authority_2018_06_06 (1).pdf
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    FenceSitter
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    Re: ULP from CUPE

    Post by FenceSitter »

    Updated with the link...
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    Re: ULP from CUPE

    Post by complexintentions »

    If the management at a company are mental midgets, what does that make the employees who choose to work under them?

    Perhaps you should give your logic skills a little more work?

    Claiming that preventing CUPE from handing out propaganda in a place of business is somehow infringing on the right to communication is pretty hilarious in this age of communication saturation and cabin crew's pathological attachment to smartphones. I mean how ELSE could CUPE communicate other than having a bunch of union groupies proselytizing like Jehovah's Witnesses handing out The Watchtower? :roll:

    Cause no flight attendants have access to this thing called the internet or social media or a million chat apps or anything, right?

    I predict this complaint goes nowhere, self-righteous indignation aside. Talk about a "false bubble".
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    Rezy
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    Re: ULP from CUPE

    Post by Rezy »

    complexintentions wrote: Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:41 pm If the management at a company are mental midgets, what does that make the employees who choose to work under them?

    Perhaps you should give your logic skills a little more work?

    Claiming that preventing CUPE from handing out propaganda in a place of business is somehow infringing on the right to communication is pretty hilarious in this age of communication saturation and cabin crew's pathological attachment to smartphones. I mean how ELSE could CUPE communicate other than having a bunch of union groupies proselytizing like Jehovah's Witnesses handing out The Watchtower? :roll:

    Cause no flight attendants have access to this thing called the internet or social media or a million chat apps or anything, right?

    I predict this complaint goes nowhere, self-righteous indignation aside. Talk about a "false bubble".
    Although I agree that it’s ridiculous that this is CUPE’s best way of spreading the word :roll:
    I’m curious how this will play out because airports are public places what’s the difference between the airport and a sidewalk when it comes to union solicitation? Especially pre seniority, there’s no requirements or checks for someone to walk into Kelsey’s and have dinner. Are airports business? Again no. But they are non profit organizations, so can they stop union solicitation?
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    Re: ULP from CUPE

    Post by groundpilot »

    complexintentions wrote: Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:41 pm If the management at a company are mental midgets, what does that make the employees who choose to work under them?

    Perhaps you should give your logic skills a little more work?

    Claiming that preventing CUPE from handing out propaganda in a place of business is somehow infringing on the right to communication is pretty hilarious in this age of communication saturation and cabin crew's pathological attachment to smartphones. I mean how ELSE could CUPE communicate other than having a bunch of union groupies proselytizing like Jehovah's Witnesses handing out The Watchtower? :roll:

    Cause no flight attendants have access to this thing called the internet or social media or a million chat apps or anything, right?

    I predict this complaint goes nowhere, self-righteous indignation aside. Talk about a "false bubble".
    ComplexIntentions,

    Your posts used to be a theme of interesting tidbits of expat life but you now come across as a bitter aging man who is angrily flicking off Canada because you can’t accept the realities of your decision of leaving.

    This is straight up bullying if you actually read the document. “EdTalks”, management recording interactions between CUPE reps and flight attendants, reprimanding employees involved in union organizing, and monitoring employee IPads.

    It’s a lot more than kicking CUPE out of the YYC airport. True, social media is the most common way to communicate in the modern era, but face to face contact is still essential in any business not to mention you need to “sign” a card.

    WJ management from what I can tell is truly a shameless group.
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    FenceSitter
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    Re: ULP from CUPE

    Post by FenceSitter »

    complexintentions wrote: Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:41 pm If the management at a company are mental midgets, what does that make the employees who choose to work under them?

    Perhaps you should give your logic skills a little more work?

    Claiming that preventing CUPE from handing out propaganda in a place of business is somehow infringing on the right to communication is pretty hilarious in this age of communication saturation and cabin crew's pathological attachment to smartphones. I mean how ELSE could CUPE communicate other than having a bunch of union groupies proselytizing like Jehovah's Witnesses handing out The Watchtower? :roll:

    Cause no flight attendants have access to this thing called the internet or social media or a million chat apps or anything, right?

    I predict this complaint goes nowhere, self-righteous indignation aside. Talk about a "false bubble".
    Wow...condescending much? Comparing a union to a religion? I'm pretty good at talking down to people but I'll take the high road (for the most part) in my response.
    My assessment of this ULP is that it is as strong as airplane coffee made with a re-used coffee pouch...and just about as effective as a wakeup call. ULPS are far more effective, and in my opinion valid, when they are filed soon after an incident occurs. I see this ULP less as a 'shot across the bow' than perhaps a dog whistle or an attempt at showing people who haven't signed (expired cards too) "look...we do stuff".
    Will it be successful? Nope. I bet you some Durfy dollars that it goes nowhere. That said, a rational person would have thought that WJ would get smarter with their anti-union campaign. Apparently not, they are still making the same mistakes.
    I don't think CUPE has enough cards even for a vote. I don't think they will certify through strategic means but rather over time they will simply have a successful long term campaign. I was told to expect a surprise by July 4th...I'm not holding my breath.
    A vote within in flight will be successful. Full stop. Of this I am completely confident and the stalling tactics of the company make it blatantly clear that they believe so at some level too. The FAs have a choice between Larisa/Charles/<insert additional mindless puppet name here> or something else? They will choose something else likely upwards of 70% of the time. If CUPE had more than 40% they would be ridiculously stupid to wait to submit their cards...and they have shown me to be ignorant but not quite stupid (not a dig at the activists but rather the strategic plan from the top). They turn down help and advice that could get the job done in weeks and not years...that's pretty ignorant IMO.
    With the 'agreement' being re-opened it's more important than ever that the FAs certify...but they won't. It's a sad cycle of anti-pathy that is in the corporate best interest at the expense of the Frontline workers. 'Can-Do' has become 'Must-Do' and the difference on a personal level is massive. 'Can-Do' was inspired by the feeling created at the beginning which perpetuated itself quite profitably until some time around 2009.
    CUPE, if you are reading this it is time to either shit or get off the pot. If you have enough cards for a vote, send them in and stop eating time money and resources. Peoples livelihoods are at stake and you are doing them no favors by delaying or being economical with the truth.
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    Re: ULP from CUPE

    Post by twinpratts »

    So has anyone heard back from the CIRB whether or not CUPE did indeed have enough signed cards? i figured that bit of info would have been released by now...
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    Re: ULP from CUPE

    Post by bob99 »

    twinpratts wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:41 am So has anyone heard back from the CIRB whether or not CUPE did indeed have enough signed cards? i figured that bit of info would have been released by now...
    It took about a month for the CIRB to go through all that when the Encore pilots certified, and the WJ FA group is quite a bit bigger. So might be awhile yet.
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    Re: ULP from CUPE

    Post by RustyDeuce »

    Gunna take a while to sort thru all those fraudulently signed cards.
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    Re: ULP from CUPE

    Post by 7ECA »

    RustyDeuce wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:50 pm Gunna take a while to sort thru all those fraudulently signed cards.
    That's quite the allegation, got any actual evidence to back it up?
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    Re: ULP from CUPE

    Post by FenceSitter »

    A common question being asked of the randomly selected FAs is if WJ interfered. The common response is "yes". What an assinine way to work against a union...blatantly interfering with no regard for the impact their actions and statements will have on future drives. Yesterday was the cut-off for input. I suppose a decision will be made shortly. WJ will truly have the union they deserve. They earned it.
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    Re: ULP from CUPE

    Post by WeedPro2000 »

    I’m loathe to start another thread on CUPE so I’ll just append this gem here. CUPE, in its collectivist wisdom chose to announce a card count mere days ahead of the signing of an MOA for the FAs that would have improved several areas for them. Now, with the card count in place, and should it be successful, CUPE has initiated the statutory freeze on work terms. Had they waited, even just a couple of days, they could have given the FAs better working conditions (than they now have), until the signing of their first contract.

    Unions...
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    Re: ULP from CUPE

    Post by Transonic »

    WeedPro2000 wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:59 am I’m loathe to start another thread on CUPE so I’ll just append this gem here. CUPE, in its collectivist wisdom chose to announce a card count mere days ahead of the signing of an MOA for the FAs that would have improved several areas for them. Now, with the card count in place, and should it be successful, CUPE has initiated the statutory freeze on work terms. Had they waited, even just a couple of days, they could have given the FAs better working conditions (than they now have), until the signing of their first contract.

    Unions...
    Let's rephrase the question.

    Why didn't WestJet propose this MOA "mere" days before the inevitable card count?

    They had well over a year.
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    Re: ULP from CUPE

    Post by B757FO »

    WeedPro2000 wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:59 am I’m loathe to start another thread on CUPE so I’ll just append this gem here. CUPE, in its collectivist wisdom chose to announce a card count mere days ahead of the signing of an MOA for the FAs that would have improved several areas for them. Now, with the card count in place, and should it be successful, CUPE has initiated the statutory freeze on work terms. Had they waited, even just a couple of days, they could have given the FAs better working conditions (than they now have), until the signing of their first contract.

    Unions...
    John I agree with you on that 100%, seems odd timing but apparently some fas were not happy about having to interview to fly the 787 so that triggered a few phone calls to cupe to do the application. And I believe that 787 selection piece would have made its way in the moa but I’m not sure I did not see it. I do agree that timing was a bit odd but that’s their choice I guess. I personally believe a ccm program is way overdue here for the 737 and they should interview for that but the doors are just doors and service is just service not requiring a selection process. Not in this country anyways.
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    Re: ULP from CUPE

    Post by Old fella »

    WJ FAs have to interview in order to be “selected” to go on their B787. What is so special about that aeroplane.
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    Re: ULP from CUPE

    Post by lostaviator »

    WeedPro2000 wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:59 am I’m loathe to start another thread on CUPE so I’ll just append this gem here. CUPE, in its collectivist wisdom chose to announce a card count mere days ahead of the signing of an MOA for the FAs that would have improved several areas for them. Now, with the card count in place, and should it be successful, CUPE has initiated the statutory freeze on work terms. Had they waited, even just a couple of days, they could have given the FAs better working conditions (than they now have), until the signing of their first contract.

    Unions...
    There is nothing to back up that claim. Any internal questions about the MOA were answered with “we can’t discuss until ya finalized” by FAAB (or whatever it was called now).

    Maybe it would be improve all fa’s working conditions, but saying it is/would be isn’t accurate as no one knows.
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    Re: ULP from CUPE

    Post by lostaviator »

    Old fella wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:48 pm WJ FAs have to interview in order to be “selected” to go on their B787. What is so special about that aeroplane.
    Nothing..... it’s called control.
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    Re: ULP from CUPE

    Post by WeedPro2000 »

    lostaviator wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:54 pm
    WeedPro2000 wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:59 am I’m loathe to start another thread on CUPE so I’ll just append this gem here. CUPE, in its collectivist wisdom chose to announce a card count mere days ahead of the signing of an MOA for the FAs that would have improved several areas for them. Now, with the card count in place, and should it be successful, CUPE has initiated the statutory freeze on work terms. Had they waited, even just a couple of days, they could have given the FAs better working conditions (than they now have), until the signing of their first contract.

    Unions...
    There is nothing to back up that claim. Any internal questions about the MOA were answered with “we can’t discuss until ya finalized” by FAAB (or whatever it was called now).

    Maybe it would be improve all fa’s working conditions, but saying it is/would be isn’t accurate as no one knows.
    You’re right, they obviously wanted to sign an MOA to make things worse for the FAs.
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    WeedPro2000
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    Re: ULP from CUPE

    Post by WeedPro2000 »

    lostaviator wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:55 pm
    Old fella wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:48 pm WJ FAs have to interview in order to be “selected” to go on their B787. What is so special about that aeroplane.
    Nothing..... it’s called control.
    Dude, if you don’t like someone being in control of your work life, perhaps you should consider ceasing being an employee. An employee is by definition a worker whose working day is in the control of others.
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    Re: ULP from CUPE

    Post by Old fella »

    WeedPro2000 wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:07 am
    lostaviator wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:55 pm
    Old fella wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:48 pm WJ FAs have to interview in order to be “selected” to go on their B787. What is so special about that aeroplane.
    Nothing..... it’s called control.
    Dude, if you don’t like someone being in control of your work life, perhaps you should consider ceasing being an employee. An employee is by definition a worker whose working day is in the control of others.
    Yes, I would suggest all work life is controlled no matter what you do , nor the employer who sets the duties and responsibilities of the particular job and hours of operation. Nothing new with that being around this past 70 yrs. What’s so special about a B787 that your FAs have to go through an interview in order to be selected for that aircraft type, what’s the difference between a B767 and B737 that makes B787 so crucial. If you have required seniority can you not hold the position on a B787. Just asking as an observer.
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